Higher time warp and hibernation instead of magic, unrealistic "warp drive o.O".

[Fifi]

This suggestion is adressed to the rumours that future version of KSP will contain "warp drive" (it was said by the Moderator somewhere on the forums).

I think that KSP is a physics simulator, so we should be able to timewarp more (only the timewarp mechanics should be fixed to don't magically pass ships through the atmospheres at high warps and to stop at maneuver nodes) instead of SciFi magic "warp engines" (o.O).

Kerbals should be able to hibernate (the ship should be out of control during that process unless somebody attached probe core to it). That would be better than magic warp drives (I think hibernation is less unrealistic than "warp drive").

What's actually the fun of interstellar journey if it's done in one click? Time warp at least simulates time pass and we still see increasing date. It would be nice if we'll have bigger time warp and realistic engine (huge nuclear one, bigger ion engine, electric sail or Alcubierre drive).

The issue with a long speeding up could be fixed with making hybrid warp after apoapsis of the last celestial body in planetary system possible. By hybrid warp I mean warp which could be huge (for example 10 000) but during which engines could work (altough the thrust level, roll and direction are fixed and physics disabled). There could also be a restriction that it couldn't be turned on if the ship hasn't last at least 2 minutes of speeding up at desired thrust level without structural linkage failure or changing the direction more than 5 degrees.

And btw. I think the first thing to fix before new solar systems should be the terrain (the closest terrain should be randomly generated noise, to don't look so blurry, but to look HD even if it's random - also the higher views on terrain should have improved resolution, cause now it looks like unsharp photography ).

Thanks in advance for taking it into consideration.

[hotcrazyfruit]

I'm with you, on the point of using hibernation with special warp speeds when such systems are present. Certain conditions should be met before engaging these warp speeds, like being on a hyperbolic trajectory from kerbol. With that, I think life support should be required since these trips out of the solar system will be tens if not hundreds of years. I never agreed with FTL drives, but didn't say anything.. since that's what's expected around here.

[jwenting]

Without interstellar travel, which is on the list of things not to ask for, this is not needed, so you're implicitly asking for something that's on the list of things not to ask for.

[Fifi]

It's on that list because it's confirmed to be implemented in the future releases (so people don't have to ask for it)?

So... no, I'm not.

I'm only making suggstion about why it should be done that way instead of planned one.

Proof (Capt'n Skunky post):

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/17209-Interstellar-travel?p=238683&viewfull=1#post238683

@hotcrazyfruit:

Anyway, FTL drive (instead of teleportation D: ) or - better - normal drive at 80% speed of light is still more realistic and interesting. I don't think that things on Kerbin will change much - my space program have already 40 years without other planetary system (it's twice the time of journey to real alfa Centauri and back without the use of FTL drive).

Edited August 6, 2013 by Fifi

[AngelLestat]

In the list of things to not suggest is FTL, he is not suggesting that.

I am with you, and other thing; all distances scales in KSP is 1/10, so if our closer star is 4 light years, in KSP it will be 0.4 ly. And if we take the average distance in a star cluster it will be less than 0,1 ly, and if we take triple or binary systems then the distances are much shorter.

With a time warp mode only for interstellar travel and a convenient propulsion system there is no need to introduce any unreal ftl system that will brake the game balance.

A beamed sail system can do the work. Even for distances of 4 ly with 1g of acceleration and exhaust velocity of 0,7c.

[jcraft]

Well, I still would want to see some kind of FTL drive in KSP. BUT - it would be definitely absolute end-game thing, at the end of tech-tree and very hard to get (for example to research it would be required to get resources that are only possible to mine outside Kerbal home system - some kind of "mustobtainium" ). And of course it should be implemented in some believable hard sci-fi manner, not in your typical "space-operous space magic drive" way.

Edited August 6, 2013 by jcraft

[AngelLestat]

And of course it should be implemented in some believable hard sci-fi manner, not in your typical "space-operous space magic drive" way.

That is the problem, when you speak about FTL, you are speaking about magic drive, there is not other way to see it.

Maybe 500 years into the future, with a new know physsics, we can said.. yes.. can be possible, but it will take 10000 years more to do it.

[MRab2]

That is the problem, when you speak about FTL, you are speaking about magic drive, there is not other way to see it.

Maybe 500 years into the future, with a new know physsics, we can said.. yes.. can be possible, but it will take 10000 years more to do it.

"Heavier than air flying machines are impossible,"

Lord Kelvin

1895

And he knew how to spell physics

[MRab2]

In the list of things to not suggest is FTL, he is not suggesting that.

I am with you, and other thing; all distances scales in KSP is 1/10, so if our closer star is 4 light years, in KSP it will be 0.4 ly. And if we take the average distance in a star cluster it will be less than 0,1 ly, and if we take triple or binary systems then the distances are much shorter.

With a time warp mode only for interstellar travel and a convenient propulsion system there is no need to introduce any unreal ftl system that will brake the game balance.

A beamed sail system can do the work. Even for distances of 4 ly with 1g of acceleration and exhaust velocity of 0,7c.

Take a 1 penny piece and place it on the ground. This represents the Kerbol system. then walk the length of a football pitch and put down another penny. this represents a similar sized system 0.1ly away. Any sublight system that could make this journey within 100 years could get from Kerbin to Eeloo within a few days.

[MRab2]

I think that KSP is a physics simulator, so we should be able to timewarp more (only the timewarp mechanics should be fixed to don't magically pass ships through the atmospheres at high warps and to stop at maneuver nodes) instead of SciFi magic "warp engines" (o.O).

First of all, it's not a physics simulator, it's a space program simulator (the clue is in the title).

Secondly, any sublight drive system that can make it to the next star system within decades would make moving around the Kerbol system trivial, unless you bring in some contrivance as to why a conventional drive system can't be used to move between planets.

[Fifi]

Just some thoughts from the other discussion:

One of the most fascinating part of KSP is that you actually watch ship running on orbit (or on straight line, if we are talking about interstellar travel without a galaxy) and slowly arriving the maneuver node or encounter. Of course it can - and should - be speeded up by the time warp, but this way it still got the feel of a real space program which doesn't jump the ship to the right place but slowly move a long time with just a little corrections.

I thought that Devs were saying (as a "warp drive") about engine which teleports from one star system to another. If it's just an engine like all the others (despite the fact it's a FTL drive, explained by Alcubierre maths, or very fast conventional drive) and the ship will still move in map view over a course line - it's completely ok for me and I just misunderstood it (then sorry for the mess D: ).

Secondly, any sublight drive system that can make it to the next star system within decades would make moving around the Kerbol system trivial, unless you bring in some contrivance as to why a conventional drive system can't be used to move between planets.

Hmm... tidal forces, space debris, asteroids, I don't know. Maybe the speeding up will take a long time. D:

[SpaceK531]

quick! complain about this (not) OP (not) cfg edit!

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/43839

[Scoundrel]

It's on that list because... <snip> ...it's confirmed to be implemented in the future releases...Proof (Capt'n Skunky post):

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/17209-Interstellar-travel?p=238683&viewfull=1#post238683

Do keep in mind that Squad reserves the right to change their mind about anything at any time for any reason. A lot has changed since last year, and the game that we may be getting might not be the game they were talking about back then. Consider this more recent quote:

The problem is that without relying on some sci-fi hokem' date=' FTL isn't possible. HarvesteR is against having to use non-existent sci-fi technology to accomplish things.

If anything, this content and game mechanic wouldn't be added in the first version, possible as an expansion/DLC, but I wouldn't get your hopes up.[/quote']

So I believe that *if* additional star systems are going to be implemented in non-DLC KSP, AngelLestat's hypothesis of the distance between systems in the Kerbalverse being well within 1 LY is most likely the correct one, and that the method will likely be via technology that's considered plausible as opposed to speculative.

[Fifi]

Oh. Thanks for explanation. I was scared that it would be some magic super uber drive. ^^

I just understand it improperly.

So... I'm off the thread, sorry for taking your time guys.

[rkman]

Anyway, FTL drive (instead of teleportation D: ) or - better - normal drive at 80% speed of light is still more realistic and interesting.

That is the problem, when you speak about FTL, you are speaking about magic drive, there is not other way to see it.

Squad has mentioned the 'FTL' drive they have in mind would actually *move the ship* really fast.

So they plan the FTL drive not to be like teleportation.

In tests they did it turned out to be to fast for KSP's physics engine, causing the game to crash. Last word on that was about a year ago and the issue was unresolved.

Depending on the speed of light in the KSP universe it might literally be a Faster-Than-Light drive (minus various relativistic effects) or it might in fact be sub-lightspeed but still really really fast.

Either way i'd expect travel times to nearby stars - which might be as close as one lightyear away - to be in the order of game years; the same timescale we already are used to working with during interplanetary travel.

my space program have already 40 years without other planetary system (it's twice the time of journey to real alfa Centauri and back without the use of FTL drive).

Even though you go to real alpha Centauri and don't use an FTL drive, technology that would get you there in 20 years is not real.

According to NASA, with current technology a trip to alpha Centauri would take 900 years and require more fuel then there is matter in the known universe.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/technology/warp/scales_prt.htm

So any at least half-way realistic drive would not get Kerbals to the stars, but going to the stars is an intended part of the game. I'm sure Squad will solve that problem somehow.

[AngelLestat]

And he knew how to spell physics

Maybe in his own language.. How about in Spanish and Portuguese too, my languages..

And you are quoting a phrase that precedes the scientific method. Now we do not make the same assertions with the same carelessness.

How I said.. We need a new physics only to said if is possible or not.

Take a 1 penny piece and place it on the ground. This represents the Kerbol system. then walk the length of a football pitch and put down another penny. this represents a similar sized system 0.1ly away. Any sublight system that could make this journey within 100 years could get from Kerbin to Eeloo within a few days.

yeah yeah yeah... i know very well how big are those distances. i dont need the kinder garden examples XD

But how I said, even with 4 ly distance, I can show you how it will be possible in the next 50 years make an interstellar ship to do that in only 7 years with beamed sail.

Secondly, any sublight drive system that can make it to the next star system within decades would make moving around the Kerbol system trivial, unless you bring in some contrivance as to why a conventional drive system can't be used to move between planets.

Not if you use beamed sail, this would be only for interstellar travel, there is not easy way to use it for trips inside kerbol system. So the balance remains.

[MRab2]

Even though you go to real alpha Centauri and don't use an FTL drive, technology that would get you there in 20 years is not real.

According to NASA, with current technology a trip to alpha Centauri would take 900 years and require more fuel then there is matter in the known universe.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/technology/warp/scales_prt.htm

So any at least half-way realistic drive would not get Kerbals to the stars, but going to the stars is an intended part of the game. I'm sure Squad will solve that problem somehow.

And this is a really good point. ANY technology that comes into the game that allows travel between stars is going to be well within the realms of Sci-fi. Be it Bussard collectors, fusion drives, hibernation and whatever, going the extra few inches to an alcubierre drive doesn't seem like too much of a stretch.

[MRab2]

Maybe in his own language.. How about in Spanish and Portuguese too, my languages..

And how is physics spelled in Spanish?

And you are quoting a phrase that precedes the scientific method.

Hardly, the "scientific method" dates from the 17th century.

Now we do not make the same assertions with the same carelessness.

Nonesense:

“There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.† Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp. (DEC), maker of big business mainframe computers, arguing against the PC in 1977.

“We will never make a 32 bit operating system.† Bill Gates

“There is not the slightest indication that nuclear energy will ever be obtainable. It would mean that the atom would have to be shattered at will.† Albert Einstein, 1932

Humans will never stop saying stupid things.

But how I said, even with 4 ly distance, I can show you how it will be possible in the next 50 years make an interstellar ship to do that in only 7 years with beamed sail.

Doubtful dude (note, I'm not saying impossible). The energy requirements are ridiculous. Seriously, stupidly, huge. And we just don't have the power generating capability. If you want to tell me, then I'll listen, but I've just run through the numbers and they were bigger than I thought, so be prepared to be shot down - but I'll gladly listen.

Not if you use beamed sail, this would be only for interstellar travel, there is not easy way to use it for trips inside kerbol system. So the balance remains.

Personally I doubt solar sails will ever be used, but that's just because I firmly believe the warp drive is possible. the universe doesn't make sense if it isn't

[Scoundrel]

Squad has mentioned the 'FTL' drive they have in mind would actually *move the ship* really fast.

So they plan the FTL drive not to be like teleportation... <snip> ...So any at least half-way realistic drive would not get Kerbals to the stars, but going to the stars is an intended part of the game. I'm sure Squad will solve that problem somehow.

It would probably be safe to speculate that they'll make the average distance between stars be around .1 lightyears or less - meaning a completely unrealistic distance from each other - to keep the travel meaningful but not excessive. As has been shown by Scott Manley in this video

, anything approaching realism would make the game boring and unplayable. Cap'n Skunky has posted on the Steam boards that HarvesteR is against any trans-stellar technology that requires handwavium and technobabble. How they intend to resolve it is another matter.

ANY technology that comes into the game that allows travel between stars is going to be well within the realms of Sci-fi. Be it Bussard collectors, fusion drives, hibernation and whatever, going the extra few inches to an alcubierre drive doesn't seem like too much of a stretch.

Well, there's a difference between speculative drives (fusion) based on near-future technology, and fantasy drives (Alcubierre et al.) that require a handwavium to function - based on our current understanding of such possibilities, that is. The model for the Alcubierre drive simply demonstrates the mathematical possibility of how such a drive could work. It does not demonstrate the feasibility of such a drive. That is something that people will be spending many decades figuring out, I'm sure.

Personally I doubt solar sails will ever be used, but that's just because I firmly believe the warp drive is possible. the universe doesn't make sense if it isn't

Respectfully, I must disagree. This is the reason why...

...ladies and gentlemen of this supposed thread, I have one final thing I want you to consider: Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca.

Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it: that does not make sense!

Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with the Universe? Nothing! Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with the Universe! It does not make sense! Look at me: I'm a SF author posting about the Universe, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're reading this thread and deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed thread, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must accept that the Universe makes no sense!

Here, look at the monkey. Look at the silly monkey!

And that is why warp drive will never happen.

[AngelLestat]

And how is physics spelled in Spanish?

Fisica See is a lot more easy than physcsiaishiscs.

Hardly, the "scientific method" dates from the 17th century.

the first car was built in 1890 and not everyone knew how to drive it.

Nonesense:

“There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.† Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp. (DEC), maker of big business mainframe computers, arguing against the PC in 1977.

“We will never make a 32 bit operating system.† Bill Gates

“There is not the slightest indication that nuclear energy will ever be obtainable. It would mean that the atom would have to be shattered at will.† Albert Einstein, 1932

Humans will never stop saying stupid things.

What I mean is that scientists now care more about what they say, because they can lose her/his credibility. And I mean in the papers that they publish. Not what they said like opinion.

For example, scientists today only mention a discover when they can prove it with 99.999999999999% of certainty.

But fun quotes anyway

Doubtful dude (note, I'm not saying impossible). The energy requirements are ridiculous. Seriously, stupidly, huge. And we just don't have the power generating capability. If you want to tell me, then I'll listen, but I've just run through the numbers and they were bigger than I thought, so be prepared to be shot down - but I'll gladly listen.

Well, that depends how big is your payload.

You can speed up tiny and thin diamond sail to almost the speed of light in just some seconds with a gigawatt laser. Course will disintegrate, but is possible.

You get 6,7 Newtom by gigawatt, This mean 1 pod at 1G equal to 1 TW. To get this amount of energy you will need aprox 5 km2 of photovoltaic cells made of graphene, very thing very light at middle distance between sun and mercury.

Of course, meanwhile you finish to build that, you can sell the energy to the planet.

Well, there's a difference between speculative drives (fusion) based on near-future technology, and fantasy drives (Alcubierre et al.) that require a handwavium to function - based on our current understanding of such possibilities, that is. The model for the Alcubierre drive simply demonstrates the mathematical possibility of how such a drive could work. It does not demonstrate the feasibility of such a drive. That is something that people will be spending many decades figuring out, I'm sure.

But you forgot to add that alcubierre drive also breaks many other physics rules like cause and effect and some others.

So we need a new physics just to see if can be possible or not. And even if is possible, the amount of energy that will need it will makes pointless the practical use, even if we are a GOD civilization.

What is more easy? walk 10 steps to open the door, or bend all the space between using 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 more energy to reach the same place?

About Chewbacca, maybe he wants to feel like an Ewoks king..

[Skorpion]

It seems unfair to me to refer to warp bubbles as a fantasy that requires handwavium when NASA is actively running experiments to create warp bubbles. Sure, a probe-sized warp drive may not be possible for centuries, if ever at all, but it's hardly handwavium.

[Whirligig Girl]

warp drive is alcubbiere drive.

[rkman]

It seems unfair to me to refer to warp bubbles as a fantasy that requires handwavium when NASA is actively running experiments to create warp bubbles. Sure, a probe-sized warp drive may not be possible for centuries, if ever at all, but it's hardly handwavium.

Except that NASA has yet to create a warp bubble. We/they don't even know whether it is actually possible.

[Trux]

Do Kerbals seem like the type of creature to spend a long time sleeping?

[MRab2]

Except that NASA has yet to create a warp bubble. We/they don't even know whether it is actually possible.

They've yet to create a single stage to orbit vehicle either.