Spaceport/Runway Finder

[iueras]

So, now that I am getting into spaceplane designs, I have a need for finding the runway again from orbit. Does anyone know of a stock or modded way to show me the spaceport on the orbital map, and ideally target it and/or light up the runway a bit so I can actually see it at night for approach? I have wanted this for a while for landing rockets and such as well, but only since using spaceplanes has the smooth runway as a landing site become critical.

I tried debarking a Kerbal and planting a flag at the launchpad/runway area, but the flag "flight" has to be removed before I can launch the next one, which removes the flag and makes it pointless. Same goes for parking a ship or anything else at the spaceport for visibility purposes. Any other ideas?

Apologies if this has been answered before, if it has my search-fu was weak.

[blizzy78]

Place the flag outside of the launchpad circle and it'll stay.

[annallia]

As blizzy says walk/drive one of your kerbals somewhere out there to plant a flag.

For me I have rovers parked outside my SPH (off the runways) that are in varying stages of testing so I just use them.

[Tex_NL]

blizzy's suggestion is one I support 100%. Except I did a wee bit better:

Exactly in-line with the runway I placed flags at 0, 1, 5, 10, 15 and 25 km. Not only does this give you a great approach vector it also helps you with your descent slope. Descent 100m for every 1km distance (~6°) and you'll nail the runway every single time.

[Anton P. Nym]

I parked a rover drone at the west end of Runway 09 and renamed it "KSC Runway beacon". Then I got the brainwave to use the rename function to declare it a base, so it shows up as a base on the map view and has the special "base" caret on the staging UI... I liked that so well that I put another at the back-up runway and did the same. Whenever I get around to finding the KSC2 easter egg, I'll probably do the same there.

-- Steve

[capi3101]

Looks like other folks are doing the very thing I thought about doing just the other day. Rovers work well as ground markers - just reclass them as bases and you're good to go. I would suggest something like a rover over a flag; I've had flags sink into the ground and explode on me in the vicinity of KSP before.

I used a prototype science probe to set up a navigational marker just off the crawlway/launch pad. Didn't so much as fly it or drive it out there as much as I rolled the thing on probe torque and managed not to break off to many things in the process.

Tex_NL's glide slope suggestion...top notch. I was considering doing something like that...call the one next to the runway "Meatball 7"...

Edited August 15, 2013 by capi3101

[asmi]

How about just remembering where it is? KSC location is easy to find from orbit...

[annallia]

I parked a rover drone at the west end of Runway 09 and renamed it "KSC Runway beacon". Then I got the brainwave to use the rename function to declare it a base, so it shows up as a base on the map view and has the special "base" caret on the staging UI... I liked that so well that I put another at the back-up runway and did the same. Whenever I get around to finding the KSC2 easter egg, I'll probably do the same there.

-- Steve

Don't forget the lights pointed skyward!

[Apollo13]

How about just remembering where it is? KSC location is easy to find from orbit...

Difficult (with any precision) when KSC is in the depths of night.

[Tex_NL]

How about just remembering where it is? KSC location is easy to find from orbit...

KSC itself is very easy to find. The harder part is lining up for the runway well before you can see it.

Most of my spaceplanes are running on mere fumes when they return, I have just don't have the fuel to circle back and try again.

[iueras]

How about just remembering where it is? KSC location is easy to find from orbit...

Well, now I feel dumb. I've tried that but honestly even though I've been up to orbit probably 30 times and even put together some structures in orbit, I'm always concentrating so hard on flight and maneuvers that I can't remember exactly where the base is... Or even which continent for that matter. Seriously, I feel really dumb right now.

blizzy's suggestion is one I support 100%. Except I did a wee bit better:

Exactly in-line with the runway I placed flags at 0, 1, 5, 10, 15 and 25 km. Not only does this give you a great approach vector it also helps you with your descent slope. Descent 100m for every 1km distance (~6°) and you'll nail the runway every single time.

That's a fantastic idea. Sounds like a really good use for the Aviation Lights mod I just got downloaded. I am just OCD enough to set up the strobe timing to sequence towards the runway too, LOL. Wonder if I can make some sort of rudimentary VASI... structurally shielded light sections and patience... hmm...

I parked a rover drone at the west end of Runway 09 and renamed it "KSC Runway beacon".

So there is no issue where you have to "empty" the runway before each flight parking rovers/probe bodies/whatever close to the runway? Or is there a certain range clear of the runway I have to be before it stops interfering?

Thanks for the responses guys, you've given me some ideas. Off to experiment (I am seriously going to try and set up VASI Since moving parts seem to have issues maintaining locations, I'm going to have to make a different light beacon for each marker with slightly different angles... hopefully the SPH has a small enough rotation increment).

Edited August 15, 2013 by iueras

[iueras]

Didn't so much as fly it or drive it out there as much as I rolled the thing on probe torque and managed not to break off to many things in the process.

Like these?‎

[Tex_NL]

...

That's a fantastic idea. Sounds like a really good use for the Aviation Lights mod I just got downloaded. I am just OCD enough to set up the strobe timing to sequence towards the runway too, LOL. Wonder if I can make some sort of rudimentary VASI... structurally shielded light sections and patience... hmm...

Not sure it the strobe lights will actually show. Keep in mind physics is only active within a radius of 2,5km. If correct your runway strobes will be pretty but also pretty useless, By the time your close enough to see the lights you can already spot the runway.

So there is no issue where you have to "empty" the runway before each flight parking rovers/probe bodies/whatever close to the runway? Or is there a certain range clear of the runway I have to be before it stops interfering?

The 'runway' is just the raised part. As long as you stay clear of that you should be fine.

[iueras]

Not sure it the strobe lights will actually show. Keep in mind physics is only active within a radius of 2,5km. If correct your runway strobes will be pretty but also pretty useless, By the time your close enough to see the lights you can already spot the runway.

I was thinking using a system like yours for the long range lineup, and slope approximation, then setting up a series of VASI lights closer to the runway for the final 2 km or so for final glide slope. Not that something that is really needed but still would be cool if I can pull it off, I think.

The 'runway' is just the raised part. As long as you stay clear of that you should be fine.

Excellent, thanks very much for your help.

[Diche Bach]

It is true that the geographic location of KSC is fairly distinct and easy to spot at close zoom. But that doesn't make it so easy to see when you are zoomed out and or looking at Kerbin from some distant focus object.

As a very quick and dirty way to help me spot the location of KSC I keep a little vehicle in my folder called "KSC Marker." It comprises the cheapest and lightest Probodobodyne probe body, dipole antennae (Remote Tech) to allow me to remote control it, an Oscar tank and one of the very small engines (I believe it is the tiny Rockmax "20" power engine, but the ant one could work too), and a parachute.

Launch it a couple hundred meters into the air, move it off to one side toward the coast, land it and leave it. Permanent "KSC Marker." Basically the same thing as the flags I guess.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Diche Bach

[capi3101]

How about just remembering where it is? KSC location is easy to find from orbit...

Having a ground reference helps. Especially when you're coming in from 100k and you want to put your periapsis on the surface 72 degrees ahead of your orbit (or however many degrees it is...I forget) to assure an arrival somewhere close to KSC.

[HeadHunter67]

How about just remembering where it is? KSC location is easy to find from orbit...

You might have heard about this little thing called "darkness". Sometimes you need to land in it. Despite the fact that the geography is well-known, Kerbal spacecraft in orbit lack the ability to see the surface of the planet's night side. Placing a vehicle or flag there will give you something to home in on - and once you're down far enough, you'll be able to see well enough to successfully land.

Edited August 15, 2013 by HeadHunter67

[Tiron]

Flags or parked vehicles are the typical stock method. Non-Stock, well, Mechjeb's otherwise Terrible 'Spaceplane Guidance' module has an Instrument Landing System built into it, which gives both the direction and distance to the runway (the one on the island is selectable but it defaults to the space center). You can also have it display ILS guidance for the specified glideslope to the specificed runway on the Navball.

I cannot emphasize enough however how much I do not recommend using either the Altitude hold or Autolanding functions of this module, however. Neither is able to control throttle at all, and the 'altitude hold' fails utterly at actually holding an altitude, instead porpoising above and below it continuously (which WILL flame you out if you try to use it at high altitudes). With the New SAS being so much better for spaceplane use, there's no real reason to bother with the 'Altitude Hold' anymore.

The Autolanding mode can also only control the attitude, so it's up to you to control the throttle in a way it can deal with. Last time I tried to use it (awhile ago, but I've seen nothing in MJ's patch notes indicating it's been changed since then) it also aimed for a very strictly defined point on the runway. When you pass that point, it then tries to turn around and fly back to it. The last time I used the 'Autoland', I botched the throttle control, the aircraft bounced off the runway, and Autoland turned it completely around backwards. I Hastily shut it off and tried to put it down backwards. It almost worked: I had a slight yaw angle though and the resulting forces tore the plane apart and sent the pieces tumbling down the runway.

[numerobis]

ILS is back in MechJeb 2? Excellent! It was missing for a while.

That altitude control is a proportional controller on your pitch. I've found it utterly worthless. The ascent module, on the other hand, with corrective steering and a low turn end altitude, works great. Type in the angle and you get that as your flight path to within a small margin of error.

[iueras]

So, I took Tex_NL's advice and laid a line of nav beacons outside my runway.

I made a vehicle expressly for this purpose:

In the SPH

Here it is getting ready to drop a nav beacon

Here we have dropped one and raised the dispenser back up in preparation for movement

And here we have dropped another for comparison, activated the systems on one, and rotated the dispenser hub, ready to drop another beacon.

Sorry if this was too image heavy, I just wanted to show off my little beacon layer.

I would mark this thread as answered if I knew how.

[nhnifong]

press m while you're on the pad and study the map. It will be centered on KSC

[capi3101]

Started building a rover-based ILS my own self last night. Just used my Hellhound rovers, a pre-existing design. Probably overkill to use my best rover for the job, but the 'hound has never flipped over on Kerbin before...

Only got out to the five kilometer mark due to time constraints. I did go ahead and put an "End of Runway" marker on the east end of the runway; it helped me keep things aligned when I started hitting small unintended course-correcting bumps further out from KSC. Tried out what I had; I'm not a good spaceplane pilot, but at least the system got me aligned with the runway. Now to work on how to use it for the glide slope reference...

Actually, I should probably finish putting out the markers before I try again.

Occurs to me that I modded the 'Hound for an Apollo-style mission to drop science buoys. Makes me wish I'd used on those modded 'hounds...then I could've gotten the whole thing done in one go. Oh well.

[JiWint]

Place a thing with enough radio-isotopic generators to make electricity for some lamps,and place them on the runway.

It can be a box,with radio-isotpic gens on the sides,and lamps on the top.lamps on the top must be facing upwards,and should be the small ones,which shine far.

Also,put a module or something like that,and target it!

It's up to your imaginaaaaatioooon