But... sputnik can't have been the first man made object in orbit!

[Mulbin]

Ok I need some info here as I'm scratching my head on my latest historical design (the R7 rocket), and more to the point on how Sputnik actually worked! I suspect I'm missing some important technical data.

The sputnik satellite was supposedly the first man made object in orbit... but if the information I have got so far is correct it can't have been! Here's why...

The R7 rocket jettisoned it's rocket pods during ascent, then completed orbit insertion with the core stage... according to all the sources I've found it had no third stage for the sputnik mission. Sputnik itself had no engine.

Therefore the first man made object in orbit was the core stage of an R7 rocket... which sputnik then detached from.

so which of these is true...

1. sputnik actually had a third stage of some sort to complete orbit insertion and the rocket never made orbit.

2. The core rocket stage never actually completed a full orbit because it had retros to de-orbit.

3. The core rocket stage never actually completed a full orbit because it decayed very rapidly.

4. You're right! The whole center stage of an R7 was up there in orbit right behind sputnik!

If it's 4 then why the hell wouldn't they just make the rocket the "satellite"

Any info would be great so I can complete my authentic design!

Edited August 15, 2013 by Mulbin

[Mulbin]

Nevermind, found the answer! The rocket was in fact the first man made object in orbit... the tiny sphere that detached from it just gets all the press

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/spacecraftDisplay.do?id=1957-001B

[Lexif]

The Wikipedia page mentions that they also had a radar reflector on the core stage to confirm its orbital parameters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik#Launch_and_mission

But that section isn't very clearly written, and the source they quoted is russian, so I couldn't read it. I'm curious about this as well.

The question is "what's a satellite?". I guess since the Sputnik was the payload, and the rocket stage only a means to an end, it doesn't count. But as the stage had a reflector on it, it might count as it was used for something usefull beyond launching the Sputnik. (Considering the state of knowledge about space etc. at the time.)

I think the interesting question is why there are satellites without an engine -- if they don't have one, the last stage will be orbiting, too. So why detatch it, as you say? I guess the small Sputnik wouldn't decay as fast as the bulky stage.

Edit: Ninja'd!

Edited August 15, 2013 by Lexif
typo

[legoheli]

Think about how many spent rocket stages have made relatively close flybys of Mars as well - it's the payloads that get the glory even though the rocket did all the work, haha!

[Mulbin]

So actually... since the rocket actually had a piece of scientific equipment aboard, whereas sputnik literally just had a machine that went "beep"... the Rocket was the real satellite!

[The Jedi Master]

Sputnik DID actually do something. First, it could be considered a very, very cheap communications satellite. Second, it collected data about Earth's upper atmosphere.

[Lexif]

So actually... since the rocket actually had a piece of scientific equipment aboard, whereas sputnik literally just had a machine that went "beep"... the Rocket was the real satellite!

The Sputnik sphere was filled with nitrogen and had a pressure sensor. So it would detect any micrometeorite puncturing it. The micrometeorite rate was really crucial to know, because it determined if space exploration was actually viable. It's pretty much impossible to get any info about that from the ground, I think. Sputnik didn't detect an impact, so it was reasonable to assume that stuff you send up there wouldn't get holed immediatly.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Lexif
typo

[Kimberly]

The Sputnik sphere was filled with nitrogen and had a pressure sensor. So it would detect any micrometeorite puncturing it. The micrometeorite rate was really crucial to know, because it determined if space exploration was actually viable. It's pretty much impossible to get any info about that from the ground, I think. Sputnik didn't detect an impact, so it was reasonable to assume that stuff you send up there wouldn't get holed immediatly.

So that's why it has that well, sputniky shape! That's very interesting.

[Specialist290]

Don't forget the beeping had a scientific purpose, too -- scientists were able to analyze the signal to gather data on the ionosphere.

EDIT: And right about now is when I realize that point's already been covered...

[TheCanadianVendingMachine]

Sputnik couldn't of been the first man made object into space

What about all these Nuclear tests? That must've popped some debris into orbit, I read a article about a manhole cover to be found in space.

[OtherDalfite]

Sputnik couldn't of been the first man made object into space

What about all these Nuclear tests? That must've popped some debris into orbit, I read a article about a manhole cover to be found in space.

I'm not even sure if that story is just a hoax or a folk tale (forgive me if I'm wrong) but even if it did have the force to somehow make it into space, it's time up there would have been very small, as it would have simply gone up and fallen back down.

[Drunkrobot]

The R-7 began it's career as an ICBM. It had to be able to climb into near-orbit with a five ton warhead, go half-way around the Earth, slam into some American city. Reentry meant going really fast into really thick air, so not burning up was a problem. Bringing heat shielding for the entire core stage + warhead would make the missile very heavy. The answer was making the warhead detachable from the missile, so only it needed shielding, making a lighter and longer range rocket.

This had the notable benefit of being able to swap out the bomb with something else, like a satellite. After getting the R-7 built, all that was needed was to put a radio transmitter on the top and light the fuse.

[zxczxczbfg]

To me, the payload and the rocket are almost synonymous when it comes to "firsts" in space: Sputnik's rocket engine is still Sputnik.

[andrewas]

I'm not even sure if that story is just a hoax or a folk tale (forgive me if I'm wrong) but even if it did have the force to somehow make it into space, it's time up there would have been very small, as it would have simply gone up and fallen back down.

That one is true, in that the manhole cover was launched at several times escape velocity. They don't think it actually made it out of the atmosphere with enough velocity to escape, though. Story:

http://professionalparanoid.wordpress.com/the-fastest-man-made-object-ever-a-nuclear-powered-manhole-cover-true/

[Kerbface]

If Sputnik is attatched to the rocket, it would be considered either first due to being "in front" or equal first due to being connected to the other first object and thus technically reaching orbit at the same time.

[Motokid600]

I take it Sputnik has since fallen back to Earth? Or is it still up there?

[Skyrunner27]

Yes but Vanguard 1 the first satellite with solar cells is still up there.

[Mulbin]

I take it Sputnik has since fallen back to Earth? Or is it still up there?

It stayed up for 3 months(ish)... some amazing russian robots still sitting on the moon though!

Another interesting bit of trivia I've dug up... many people claim to have seen sputnik with the naked eye while it was in orbit. What they actually saw was the R7 core following it! Sputnik itself required magnification to see.

[Kimberly]

Sputnik couldn't of been the first man made object into space

What about all these Nuclear tests? That must've popped some debris into orbit, I read a article about a manhole cover to be found in space.

Actually, they don't know what happened to it. It was only visible on a few frames of film, from which you could deduce it had a pretty massive speed, but it might've disintegrated completely before reaching space. And as KSP should've taught you, just going up won't get you into orbit!

[Commander Zoom]

To me, the payload and the rocket are almost synonymous when it comes to "firsts" in space: Sputnik's rocket engine is still Sputnik.

Agreed. Mulbin, I love your recreations, but you are splitting a hair very fine here.

[Moon Goddess]

That one is true, in that the manhole cover was launched at several times escape velocity. They don't think it actually made it out of the atmosphere with enough velocity to escape, though. Story:

http://professionalparanoid.wordpress.com/the-fastest-man-made-object-ever-a-nuclear-powered-manhole-cover-true/

Ok presuming that it somehow was sturdy enough to survive that velocity in an atmosphere, (doubtful) You should know that 6 times escape velocity would not put you in orbit as you would escape earth's gravity, In fact, 6 times escape velocity is greater than solar escape velocity so if it somehow survived it's now in orbit around the center of the galaxy.

[hugix]

Actually, they don't know what happened to it. It was only visible on a few frames of film, from which you could deduce it had a pretty massive speed, but it might've disintegrated completely before reaching space. And as KSP should've taught you, just going up won't get you into orbit!

Unless you get such a big kick with enough momentum to make it through the atmosphere and still got enough energy left to reach escape velocity.

[OtherDalfite]

Unless you get such a big kick with enough momentum to make it through the atmosphere and still got enough energy left to reach escape velocity.

If anything ever had that kind of speed, it would be faster than anything man has ever had in the atmosphere ever. It would also burn up from the excrutiating heat.

[AncientAstronaut]

Sputnik couldn't of been the first man made object into space

What about all these Nuclear tests? That must've popped some debris into orbit...

That's not how orbits work. You'd need another boost of velocity from something otherwise it will just be in sub-orbit. Unless you're suggesting it reached escape velocity. And there's just no way that happened.

[Extemporary]

Sputnik wasn't the first in space anyway, just first in orbit. I'm pretty sure some of Germany's V-2 launches were considered suborbital.