Heavy lifting

[Guest]

Is it possible to get 200 tons to orbit using stock parts without enabling parts clipping? What is the parts count I should expect?

I can get 100 to orbit regularly with confidence, but I have a need to push three orange tanks to the outer reaches of the Kerbol system and the tug is enormous. In fact, if I could get 300 tons to orbit I could simply consolidate the tanker into one launch...

Edited August 19, 2013 by regex

[blizzy78]

Hmm, the online engine stack layout calculator I've created says it's not possible, not even with part clipping allowed, a central stack size of 5 m, up to 8 boosters allowed (in asparagus staging), and up to 8 outer engines around a central one on each of the central and booster stacks. Perhaps you should go for one of the part packs to have more engines available - I'd suggest NovaPunch.

That said, 5 m is the maximum central stack size it allows, and it only allows the boosters to be up to 2.5 m in size. Of course in reality you are not limited to that.

Edited August 19, 2013 by blizzy78

[Johnno]

Well the thing is you don't have to enable part clipping to actually 'clip' parts. They don't give you a problem since they're just in close proximity (overlapping) without the clipping itself enabled.

Here's a 200 ton lifter/payload I built without enabling clipping, parts count at launch is just below 700, but as you can tell neither my lifter nor my payload are optimized. You could probably get it down a bit. The lifter itself is just regular pancake staging.

[Guest]

Well the thing is you don't have to enable part clipping to actually 'clip' parts. They don't give you a problem since they're just in close proximity (overlapping) without the clipping itself enabled.

Yeah, I was specifically referring to the "cheat". The payload for this launcher has four of those 3/4 orange KSPX tanks in close proximity and they clip into each other. I'm quite familiar with building that way.

Here's a 200 ton lifter/payload I built without enabling clipping, parts count at launch is just below 700, but as you can tell neither my lifter nor my payload are optimized. You could probably get it down a bit. The lifter itself is just regular pancake staging.

No asparagus? Nice work! Hopefully I can get something similar in that part range including the payload (which is only 70 parts or some, IIRC). The main reason I asked here is that I won't be able to get back into KSP for some 11 hours and I've been fretting about that huge payload all morning. Thanks for the confirmation.

[annallia]

Asparagus is nice for efficient launches but sometimes you have to go for raw power at the cost of efficiency.

[capi3101]

I built a heavy lifter for a challenge; the payload was something like 190 tonnes and the part count was over 800 when it was all said and done (and I didn't think the hamster-powered Byzantine-era difference engine upon which I play KSP could handle it, so I never actually launched the thing). Setting it up asparagus wouldn't be terribly difficult - you'd need somewhere between 20,928-22,236 kN total thrust on launch, with 4,604-4,891 of that in the central stack (three mainsails and an LV-T30 should do the trick) and 2,040-2,168 kN per outboard booster (a mainsail and six Mk-55s would do the trick on those; be sure to lock gimballing on the 55s), assuming eight outboard boosters.

Getting three mainsails in the central stack might be a little tricky...so I'd suggest a mainsail, plus a ring of eight LV-T45s and eight LV-T30s attached radially on top of an FL-T100/Bi-Adapter combo. Might have to use a girder to fit them all in without clipping. 4820 kN.

Edited August 19, 2013 by capi3101

[Guest]

Getting three mainsails in the central stack might be a little tricky...so I'd suggest a mainsail, plus a ring of eight LV-T45s and eight LV-T30s attached radially on top of an FL-T100/Bi-Adapter combo. Might have to use a girder to fit them all in without clipping. 4820 kN.

Did you notice Johnno's craft above? It's essentially onion staging with eight central engines, eight central "boosters", and eight additional boosters on the outside for initial lift. I'm guessing here, but it probably uses fuel routing from the outer boosters; if it doesn't then there's a single stage underneath with sixteen mainsails followed by the upper stage with eight engines. Either way would work fine and is more along my line of thought.

Granted, the goal isn't to avoid asparagus, I'm just looking for the lowest part count 200-ton lifter so my laptop doesn't explode and I'm not stuck baby-sitting a 30 minute launch (I'll be doing eight to ten of these, although I might just do one to prove I can do it and then hyperedit the rest). 700 parts is fairly reasonable.

Edited August 19, 2013 by regex
clarity

[Johnno]

Did you notice Johnno's craft above? It's essentially onion staging with eight central engines, eight central "boosters", and eight additional boosters on the outside for initial lift. I'm guessing here, but it probably uses fuel routing from the outer boosters; if it doesn't then there's a single stage underneath with sixteen mainsails followed by the upper stage with eight engines.

The latter, first stage has 16 mainsails, second stage has 8 skippers + 16 of the white radial engines. No fuel lines whatsoever.

[Motokid600]

Look into the American pack and NovaPunch. I was able to put a 350 ton payload into orbit easily and the lifter is under 300 parts. And o boy is it pretty. I'll post a pic later on.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Motokid600

[CleverClothe]

Did you notice Johnno's craft above? It's essentially onion staging with eight central engines, eight central "boosters", and eight additional boosters on the outside for initial lift. I'm guessing here, but it probably uses fuel routing from the outer boosters; if it doesn't then there's a single stage underneath with sixteen mainsails followed by the upper stage with eight engines. Either way would work fine and is more along my line of thought.

That isn't onion/asparagus staging, it is plain old serial staging. It isn't obvious just because stock is limited to 2.5m width stacks.

[Guest]

Look into the American pack and NovaPunch. I was able to put a 350 ton payload into orbit easily and the lifter is under 300 parts. And o boy is it pretty. I'll post a pic later on.

I already checked out NovaPunch a few days ago, not really interested because it doesn't fit stock very well (also: logos). I'd prefer to stick with stock, thanks, I've got enough mods as it is.

Edited August 19, 2013 by regex
getting too snarky

[capi3101]

Did you notice Johnno's craft above?

Noticed it, just trying to come up with an asparagus solution. Somebody was going to and I figured it should be me...

I like Johnno's design; can't really beat serial staging when it comes to simplicity.

[Guest]

Noticed it, just trying to come up with an asparagus solution. Somebody was going to and I figured it should be me...

Haha! Good man!

I like Johnno's design; can't really beat serial staging when it comes to simplicity.

I generally prefer serial or single onion staging (that is, the outer boosters feed the central stack). Unfortunately I don't think that onion staging will work as nicely as the serial staging Johnno has above, mainly because the central stack will end up being way too tall. The payload is fairly wide, too.

[allmhuran]

Video in my signature: 750 tons, stock parts, no clipping. Hybrid of onion and asparagus staging. Tutorial video follows on the channel.

[Guest]

Video in my signature: 750 tons, stock parts, no clipping. Hybrid of onion and asparagus staging. Tutorial video follows on the channel.

That's pretty impressive, but I think I'm figuring it out on my own. Lifting my first 150 ton payload as I type, pretty sure I can manage 200.