Bet the Developers never thought of this horrifying experience...

[Seret]

when you're working inside a space suit, the only thing you have to worry about is running out of air right?

I could probably make a list of about a hundred things that could go wrong in a space suit. Considering they're basically a small, articulated space craft it's a minor engineering marvel that they work as well as they do.

[pjj56]

One final side note: I wonder how much dV you could get out of a 20lb fire extinguisher...

Some very rough calculations suggest an 80kg human would get about 30m/s dV, which is annoyingly low

[lewille]

I could probably make a list of about a hundred things that could go wrong in a space suit. Considering they're basically a small, articulated space craft it's a minor engineering marvel that they work as well as they do.

I'll add to that that the first spacewalk (done by the Russian) almost ended up tragically. As the suit inflated so much, the cosmonaut was barely able to close his hand and could not get back in the spacecraft. Fortunately for him, he was able to get back in by deflating a little bit using a pressure valve to vent oxygen out of his spacesuit.

[Brapness]

I could probably make a list of about a hundred things that could go wrong in a space suit. Considering they're basically a small, articulated space craft it's a minor engineering marvel that they work as well as they do.

I recall reading somewhere that one of the things that concerns them most is micrometeors. You see a large puncture in the suit will kill an astronaut instantly, but a tiny puncture will make it last about 9 seconds, during which their lungs will explode, their eyes will burst, their circulatory system will hemorrhage as their blood boils and their skin freezes. I can see how that might weigh on someone's mind.

[lazarus1024]

It would be cool to expand scenario's perhaps a function to export your save file as a scenario so the community can make scenarios for each other (would really help in the challenges department). Like landing on the Mun in a craft that misses a landing leg. Or something like the Apollo 13 could be simulated by draining the lander stages of the fuel.

But parts suddenly breaking in game would add nothing to the fun of the game. Even Orbiter, which is a realistic space simulator doesn't do defective parts.

I see the editors as playing with Lego's. When one brick doesn't fit or misses one of these connector dots you throw it away and grab a new one. Whenever a Kerbal grabs a Mainsail and sees it's broken it throws it out and grabs a new one.

Unless they change their mind, the Devs have stated that part failures will NOT be part of KSP.

So fine to speculate how fun it could be, but it will not be something that is added to the game.

[Tw1]

Good thing my kerbals have been training for just this kind of thing...

Note: Fix leaks in space suit before departing to Eve. Or even space for that matter..

[lajoswinkler]

I'll add to that that the first spacewalk (done by the Russian) almost ended up tragically. As the suit inflated so much, the cosmonaut was barely able to close his hand and could not get back in the spacecraft. Fortunately for him, he was able to get back in by deflating a little bit using a pressure valve to vent oxygen out of his spacesuit.

Leonov in Voskhod 2. He almost died, and he could've died by suffocating outside, by overheating and drowning in his sweat. I can't imagine the panic while trying to get into an airlock at low pressure, while your ass is sticking outside hundreds of kilometers above ground.

The whole mission was plagued with almost lethal problems. When they landed, Belyayev and Leonov were almost eaten by wild animals in the forest, freezing and soaked in sweat.

I recall reading somewhere that one of the things that concerns them most is micrometeors. You see a large puncture in the suit will kill an astronaut instantly, but a tiny puncture will make it last about 9 seconds, during which their lungs will explode, their eyes will burst, their circulatory system will hemorrhage as their blood boils and their skin freezes. I can see how that might weigh on someone's mind.

That can't happen. It's a myth invented by Hollywood. You do not die instantly. You do not boil or explode, your eyes don't pop out, your skin doesn't freeze.

After quick depressurization you remain conscious for like ten seconds (depending on your fitness), then you start losing it. It hurts. If you aren't rescued in few minutes, you're dead. It takes a long, long time before you freeze completely. Your saliva boils and freezes, you fart and your skin puffs and gradually changes colour.

Diaphraghm rupture and internal bleeding might occur if you hold your breath. Ear drums will probably be damaged.

I'm not downplaying the dangers firemen are exposed to, but the average dangers and difficulties for a fireman are way smaller than the stuff first astronauts have been encountering.

Today's astronauts are pretty much having a blast.

[Johnno]

But no matter how you slice it, doing such a job, or walking around on the moon, requires almost zero physical effort.

Exactly how much have you read up on those particular experiences? Almost zero physical effort? Where did you get that information?

[lazarus1024]

I recall reading somewhere that one of the things that concerns them most is micrometeors. You see a large puncture in the suit will kill an astronaut instantly, but a tiny puncture will make it last about 9 seconds, during which their lungs will explode, their eyes will burst, their circulatory system will hemorrhage as their blood boils and their skin freezes. I can see how that might weigh on someone's mind.

Not really. Plenty of accidents and testing have shown you don't explode in zero pressure. If you try to hold your breath with a large puncture, you can damage your lungs due to explosive decompression. The suit pressure is low enough though (4.7psi IIRC), that decompression without a big hole is not very explosive, more rapid decompression. You can stay concious for about 15 seconds in a complete vaccum before lack of oxygen causes unconciousness. It takes awhile to freeze and actually if you were in full sunlight you probably wouldn't. It would be damned uncomfortable, but there is no convection or conduction going on, only radiation. In full shadow it would probably be about the equivelent of standing in a -80F room with zero airmovement...that takes a few minutes to be potentially life threatening. In full sunlight, the sunlit side is going to be receiving the same kind of light (actually a little more in space) that you would on Earth. Of course your shadowed side would be radiating quite a bit (no room temperature objects radiating back on it)...but likely your circulatory system could keep up with evening out the heating and cooling over your body. It just would be uncomfortable.

Your skin and circulatory system provide enough pressure that your blood would not boil or you explode. You'd swell up kind of like a body builder (probably a few dozen mm of bloating), but your skin wouldn't split, no blood boiling and your eyes wouldn't pop out. You can survive just fine with a pressure helmet on and nothing else but your skivies...again, it would just be uncomfortable.

The reason you need suit/body cooling is just look at a suit, that is a LOT of insulation covering your body, so if you exercise in the thing at all you'll bake. It was one of the things they discovered with Apollo suit testing. Just wearing the suit on the ground was okay, but start moving around and exercising and you get massively overheated.

In the end, vaccum = not so good, but it is the loss of oxygen which kills you, not the low pressure. Suits have no to very, very little nitrogen, so there is no bends if you lose suit pressure. The boiling point of your blood/water under typical circulatory pressures is something like 110F (so don't have super low blood pressure I guess). Your eyes have no gases in them, so they won't explode. You could damage your lungs by trying to hold your breath...~4psi pressing out on your lungs is a LOT of pressure, but if you allow the air to be sucked out, it shouldn't be a big deal. You'll probably fart like crazy and might crap yourself as the pressure gets sucked out of your bowels (but is unlikely to cause any damage, other than dignity). The cold won't be an issue if you are still in your suit (it is insulating you) and even if out and in shadow, it would take minutes to dozens of minutes to pose any risk of hypothermia. Anoxia WILL cause unconciousness in about 15 seconds though and death within a minute or two...so THAT is a huge problem.

Movies have done more harm to the perception of space than probably anything.

[lajoswinkler]

The effort for moonwalking is tremendous. Imagine working for several hours outside, pulling and pushing a crapload of stuff on your back that behaves like it has a mind of its own, then returning to a tin can and doing it again and again.

Sweat plus regolith dust. Two guys, three day old sweat. In a tin can. No showers. Holy ****.

[Johnno]

The effort for moonwalking is tremendous. Imagine working for several hours outside, pulling and pushing a crapload of stuff on your back that behaves like it has a mind of its own, then returning to a tin can and doing it again and again.

Sweat plus regolith dust. Two guys, three day old sweat. In a tin can. No showers.

No toilet either, had to do your business in a plastic bag. No beds, just hammocks. At least on Apollo 12 they even had to sleep in their suits.

[lazarus1024]

One of the things Apollo gave us was spacesuits with constant volume joints, which alieviated the suit ballooning. IIRC the Soviet issue wasn't simply no CVJs, but the suit pressure was also running at atmospheric or something like it, not ~4psi that later suits would run at (IE pure Ox environment). Even then, it was hard to work in early suits on EVAs as you had to compress joints fighting against ~4psi or so of pressure to move your arms and stuff. 4psi times the area of the joint...that is a lot of force to bend your arms (not sure, but I think it is in the realm of 20-40lbs of force to fold your arm all the way down). Also no suit cooling, which suits didn't have till Apollo I think (though water cooling might have been added during Gemini and/or to some of the late '60s Soviet suits as well), so heavy exercise having to compress the suit joints plus no cooling means you get super hot.

[lazarus1024]

No toilet either, had to do your business in a plastic bag. No beds, just hammocks. At least on Apollo 12 they even had to sleep in their suits.

Meh, no beds isn't that big an issue on the moon. Hammocks can be pretty comfortable to begin with, but on the Moon all you have is maybe 30lbs or so weighing you down instead of your normal 180lbs or so. Of course you are wired like crazy, because you are on THE MOON MAN! So most of the astronaughts reported having a hard time sleeping despite being so tired. By the time Apollo missions made it back I recall there being a running joke from the Astronauts and recovery crews that they had to go straight to quarrantine (and then a shower) for the sake of everyone elses' noses.

[Brapness]

Lajoswinkler and Lazarus

Some research shows you're right, funny because I read that in a 'non-fiction' book written from interviews with astronauts. I guess the author must have jazzed it up. Regardless I am still somewhat uncertain about some of it. For instance the cooling effect of rapidly expanding air is overlooked, in light atmosphere it's not a major concern, but in hard vacuum some back of the envelope calculations suggest a terrifying cooling effect (similar to how ultra-low temperatures are achieved on earth). I suppose what matters is precisely what is cooled, the suit or the person. In most accidents while the individual was exposed to severely low pressures, the depressurization was not extremely rapid.

That's merely a nagging thought though, I appreciate being corrected, thanks.

[lajoswinkler]

There isn't much air inside a suit to begin with. If you were to open your helmet in vacuum, you'd depressurize almost instantly.

Without atmosphere, there's no convective transfer of heat which is a major factor. Dead body floating in vacuum can only release radiation, and that's slow.

Suits are designed to hold heat. Excess heat is released via radiators or by gas. I'm not certain how low would it take for a dead astronaut to reach close to the background temperature of the universe, but I think it would take lots and lots of hours before he reaches the freezing point of water throughout his body.

I'm not sure what do you mean by cooling effects of the vacuum. Vacuum is a great insulator. Hence vacuum flasks for storing cryogenics... or hot water.

[esinohio]

Kind of adding to your wonderful post.. If I remember right the gentleman who made that first high altitude jump from a balloon had an issue with his glove. Joseph Kittinger was his name. His story provides elegant proof of exactly what you were discussing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Kittinger

You can read what happened in the link but in a nutshell he had a malfunction in his suit while in near vacuum and his poor hand ballooned up in size.

[Brapness]

There isn't much air inside a suit to begin with. If you were to open your helmet in vacuum, you'd depressurize almost instantly.

Without atmosphere, there's no convective transfer of heat which is a major factor. Dead body floating in vacuum can only release radiation, and that's slow.

Suits are designed to hold heat. Excess heat is released via radiators or by gas. I'm not certain how low would it take for a dead astronaut to reach close to the background temperature of the universe, but I think it would take lots and lots of hours before he reaches the freezing point of water throughout his body.

I'm not sure what do you mean by cooling effects of the vacuum. Vacuum is a great insulator. Hence vacuum flasks for storing cryogenics... or hot water.

You're right vacuum is a great insulator, but it's not the vacuum that causes the drop in temperature. When a gas expands rapidly it has a cooling effect. I dive (I recognize the pressure differences there are far greater) and often have to stop inexperienced divers when they're inflating the club rhibs from opening the cylinder valves too far. If one does so the temperature of the cylinder and valve can drop very low (I once saw dry ice forming on a cylinder valve). It's the same effect that makes spray-on deoderant cold.

I don't know if this is a concern for eva problems but as far as I can see a rapid enough (almost instantaneous) decompression should super-cool its surroundings, at least in the vicinity of the puncture even from just 4psi.

[Anton P. Nym]

I'm not sure what do you mean by cooling effects of the vacuum. Vacuum is a great insulator.

Fluid boil-off from the body depressurising isn't enough to rupture skin, but the heat the vapourisation absorbs does act to chill it IIRC. Don't know if it's enough to cause frostbite, but that'd be the least of your worries and you'd be too unconscious from hypoxia to mind while it happened.

-- Steve

[Duxwing]

I recall reading somewhere that one of the things that concerns them most is micrometeors. You see a large puncture in the suit will kill an astronaut instantly, but a tiny puncture will make it last about 9 seconds, during which their lungs will explode, their eyes will burst, their circulatory system will hemorrhage as their blood boils and their skin freezes. I can see how that might weigh on someone's mind.

Until they put their hand over the hole after having noticed the sharp pressure drop and sudden WHAM! of a micrometeorite.

-Duxwing

[lajoswinkler]

You're right vacuum is a great insulator, but it's not the vacuum that causes the drop in temperature. When a gas expands rapidly it has a cooling effect. I dive (I recognize the pressure differences there are far greater) and often have to stop inexperienced divers when they're inflating the club rhibs from opening the cylinder valves too far. If one does so the temperature of the cylinder and valve can drop very low (I once saw dry ice forming on a cylinder valve). It's the same effect that makes spray-on deoderant cold.

I don't know if this is a concern for eva problems but as far as I can see a rapid enough (almost instantaneous) decompression should super-cool its surroundings, at least in the vicinity of the puncture even from just 4psi.

No, the amount of heat taken away by few litres of air already at low pressure (or even 1atm, doesn't matter) is pretty small. That's an adiabatic process. Volume increases to "a lot", pressure drops to "very little or zero", so the temperature must fall down, too. In order to reach thermal equilibrium, the gas takes heat from the environment. Few litres can't do much, especially if you release it out. Not enough time for just about anything.

The victim would feel a drop in temperature no doubt about that, but not nearly enough to cause even temporary frost. What could happen is a shortlasting fog and dew from the moisture. Low pressure gas can't hold much moisture (hence raining in nature).

As Anton P. Nym, continuous releasing of gaseous water through skin cells would cause a drop in temperature. But not fast. That's actually a technique for conserving foodstuff. Freeze drying. It's not instant.

After a week or two, most of the corpse would be dry, except bone marrow and other deep tissues.

[Brapness]

No, the amount of heat taken away by few litres of air already at low pressure (or even 1atm, doesn't matter) is pretty small. That's an adiabatic process. Volume increases to "a lot", pressure drops to "very little or zero", so the temperature must fall down, too. In order to reach thermal equilibrium, the gas takes heat from the environment. Few litres can't do much, especially if you release it out. Not enough time for just about anything.

The victim would feel a drop in temperature no doubt about that, but not nearly enough to cause even temporary frost. What could happen is a shortlasting fog and dew from the moisture. Low pressure gas can't hold much moisture (hence raining in nature).

As Anton P. Nym, continuous releasing of gaseous water through skin cells would cause a drop in temperature. But not fast. That's actually a technique for conserving foodstuff. Freeze drying. It's not instant.

After a week or two, most of the corpse would be dry, except bone marrow and other deep tissues.

You may be right. Like I said it was a nagging thought. I'm sure the whole matter is far more complicated than can be reliably explained in an internet forum.

[Tiron]

No, the amount of heat taken away by few litres of air already at low pressure (or even 1atm, doesn't matter) is pretty small. That's an adiabatic process. Volume increases to "a lot", pressure drops to "very little or zero", so the temperature must fall down, too. In order to reach thermal equilibrium, the gas takes heat from the environment. Few litres can't do much, especially if you release it out. Not enough time for just about anything.

The victim would feel a drop in temperature no doubt about that, but not nearly enough to cause even temporary frost. What could happen is a shortlasting fog and dew from the moisture. Low pressure gas can't hold much moisture (hence raining in nature).

As Anton P. Nym, continuous releasing of gaseous water through skin cells would cause a drop in temperature. But not fast. That's actually a technique for conserving foodstuff. Freeze drying. It's not instant.

After a week or two, most of the corpse would be dry, except bone marrow and other deep tissues.

The more immediate problem(other than the oxygen actively leeching out of your bloodstream, which is why you pass out so quickly) would be eyes and mucous membranes. People involved in decompression accidents have reported the last thing they remember is the saliva on their tongues starting to boil.

As far as skin, though, skin is actually very tough and effectively airtight. So much so that there have actually been studies into spacesuit designs where only the helmet is pressurized, and the 'ballooning' problem is dealt with via mechanical pressure. Really tight elastic that's hard to get into, generally. There's a laundry list of advantages to doing it this way: More flexibility, better dexterity, much harder to suffer a decompression... (most of the suit, if it gets punctured, it's going to cause some bruising at worst. Like poor Joe.)

As for water in your helmet, if you watch that video I posted earlier, one thing you'll note is that if water gets in your eyes, the surface tension holds it in a big blob right on your face. Given that the astronaut in this incident reported that he couldn't see 'more than a few centimeters', I'm pretty sure this happened to him. There may not have been as much water in his helmet as is implied, because any water that WAS would tend to be literally right in his face.

[lajoswinkler]

There would be bleeding from mucuous membranes that contain capillaries. Bleeding and boiling. It would make a pinkish, dense, foamy deposit.

I'd imagine the recovery would be quite nasty and painful, while looking like people who abuse crack.

Why were those kinky suits not developed more? Troubles with breathing?

Yes, I was following that astronaut's videos. I suppose you could be alright until the water reaches your nose. Unless you move, which would cause sloshing. Then you'd start panicking and inhaling water and air, coughing. Pulmonary damage would occur, and then death. One would have to be very still and wait for the others to offer help.

It's a nasty way to die.

[Seret]

Until they put their hand over the hole after having noticed the sharp pressure drop and sudden WHAM! of a micrometeorite.

-Duxwing

Sure, but it might be difficult to know exactly where the leak was unless somebody else could see it. Visibility isn't great in a space suit, they'd really only be able to see their own arms and parts of their torso and legs via a mirror.

If it was a decent sized chunk I guess you'd put your hand on the bit that felt like you'd been hit with a baseball bat.

[Tom K.]

Howdy, now as we all know space is can can be a terrifying place to be being it's cold and dark and of course there's no air... but when you're working inside a space suit, the only thing you have to worry about is running out of air right?

Wrong...

Saw a story today about one of the astronauts this last month who had a very harrowing experience as his helmet slowly filled with water (odds oaare either his suit's coolant system sprang a leak or he was really sweating..

But this guy almost drowned in sapce..

And we thought a leak in a space suit was bad.. but drowning in fluids inside your own helmet? I mean how do those kerbals breathe? they don't have noses, but they do have mouths...

SO yeah it's possible to drown in space..

Bet none of the devs considered that idea..

Space_Coyote..

Drowning in a fish-bowl...