Doing it Gemini Style - An Alternate History Mun Mission

[iDan122]

What if I do everything it says here(most of it) but I actually send only 1 kerbal?

If not, can I launch up a carrier stage and a 1-man lander, then dock a second identical lander and go to Mun?

[Captain Sierra]

let me go re-download Novapunch and Bobcat's American pack and do a perfect replica XD

[frizzank]

Gemini, one man lander and trans stage

[Kerbal01]

Sierra: use frizzanks mod, its purpose built for this type of challenge.

[Kerbal01]

Challenge accepted, gimme a day or two to run the mission and get pics up.

[frizzank]

looks cool too!

[Death Engineering]

Leaderboard updated.

Some really fantastic designs that capture the Gemini spirit! The open cockpit landers are awesome. TBH I never tried that kind of landing, but I knew it could be done.

I wonder how much of a realism bonus you'd get if you did the entire mission with replica parts

The point of this challenge isn't about the appearance of parts. That being said, frizzank's Gemini/Titan mod parts look amazing. This is all about exploring crazy 60's ideas about exploring space, which you did. Cool!

I had to wait a day or so until the landing site was in sunlight, then the two Kerbalnauts made their descents one at a time, with a full orbit between each descent.

Ensuring daylight landing is SO Gemini! The landings looked perfect.

Mods used: KW Rocketry, Engineering Redux, Kosmos (only part used was the flood light. I like the small profile of them better than the bulky stock lights.)

Great designs! And a 'hard' landing on Kerbin. Nice.

Lander

On your space bike (+4): At least one open cockpit lander check

The preview pics of the lander didn't do it justice! Very versatile and I bet you could land it almost anywhere.

[WooDzor]

so I have to land this^^ on the moon... I build the space bike last night, it's supposed to fly on RCS but I haven't yet tested whether it's possible to land it on the Mun with just that. i do find the whole challenge somewhat confusing. But it did get me interested.

My plan will be to get my gemini craft in orbit > dock it backwards to the stage that will fly it to the mun (which will have the space bike attached to it as well) Shoot the whole stack to the mun. get everything into mun Orbit. Get Bill onto the bike, land it, plant the flag, dock rendevous with the gemini craft, spacewalk back to it, fly back to Kerbin.. SUCCES!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9346020/gemini/Gemini%20V.craft still has some trouble with docking though..

[tom1499]

Undertaking this challenge with great enthusiasm! I love Gemini, and am looking forward to the Open Lander and maybe even a Big-G! Also, anyone got any tips for the Titan II sub-challenge? My 2 LVT-30 cluster ain't exactly 'Small nation' power here. Even with some SRB's it can only get a couple of kilometers up. The real Titan II had an LR-87-5 with 900Kn thrust at sea-level. Ive got half that. EDIT: Dont think this counts as a cluster Can get to orbit. Was a 'Prototype' (I forgot all the RCS and second crew member) though.

Edited September 5, 2013 by tom1499

[Dunbaratu]

This looks like a fun challenge, but a few of the bonus points seem mutually exclusive so I'm wondering if I'm reading them wrong or misunderstanding them. Questions to follow:

• Stock or Mod parts*. Separate leaderboard for each.
  
• Using a mission profile of 1-2 launches and a two-Kerbal crew, orbit both Kerbals around the Mun and return the crew to Kerbin.
  
• Up to three missions may be launched if a Munar rescue mission is launched.
  

Some of your bonus points actually *require* more launches than this. For example lets say I wanted to try for this point:

• Munar Orbit Rendezvous (+6): Using two launches to low Kerbin orbit, separately send two spacecraft to Munar orbit. Once there, dock them together and complete a landing mission.
  

And I wanted to try for one of these bonus points:

• Got your back (+6): Another two-crew capable empty Gemini return vehicle can be launched and landed within 10km of the primary mission as an emergency return vehicle. Must completely perform Munar ascent to Kerbin landing, or dock with a return-capable vessel in Mun orbit.
  
• We have a reservation (+7): Land a crew on the Mun within 10km of a previously landed empty spacecraft. Must completely perform Munar ascent to Kerbin landing, or dock with a return-capable vessel in Mun orbit.
  

Those both are bonus points for creating an additional launch... but if I'm only allowed two launches max, and there's a bonus for using both of them to send one pilot each, then where is this extra landed craft supposed to come from? It *must* constitute a third launch if I'm already using the two allowed launches to land one pilot each. However, the conditions at the top said I'm only allowed 3 launches if I have to do a rescue mission. So if everything goes well I'm not allowed that third launch because no rescue mission happened.

It seems like if you want to bonus point for landing near the unmanned craft or for sending a rescue craft, then you MUST either forgoe the bonus point for sending the pilots in two separate launches of one pilot each, or you must have some sort of mishap occur thus transforming your third launch into a rescue mission rather than just a safety potential setup for a rescue mission that never was needed. Is this correct or am I misreading the requirements here?

[FacticiusVir]

We have a Reservation states "a previously landed empty spacecraft" - the objective here is to launch the rescue mission in advance, then land the primary lander within a practical distance of the rescue lander. There are objectives that are exclusive - to get all the different rocket types requires at least four launches, for example, and landing two separate landers is nearly impossible while keeping both pilots with 10km of each other (without some mad, mad multitasking skills) but all the individual bonus objectives are doable.

[Death Engineering]

It seems like if you want to bonus point for landing near the unmanned craft or for sending a rescue craft, then you MUST either forgoe the bonus point for sending the pilots in two separate launches of one pilot each, or you must have some sort of mishap occur thus transforming your third launch into a rescue mission rather than just a safety potential setup for a rescue mission that never was needed. Is this correct or am I misreading the requirements here?

You are correct - the bonus points for performing a rescue/backup lander mission are mutually exclusive. And yes, the rescue mission portion of the challenge assumes that something has indeed gone wrong and a rescue is required. However, having a empty backup return-capable lander waiting on the surface for the crewed landing mission to arrive was considered. This should still be a direct ascent style mission in the fashion of the Gemini Lunar Surface Rescue Spacecraft.

I've made some adjustments to the rules to hopefully make them more clear:

Possible Launch Profiles:

1. EOR: 2 Launches of two spacecraft which rendezvous and dock in LKO then proceed to Munar orbit. A third, direct-ascent mission for an emergency craft may be launched.
   
   
2. LOR: 2 Launches of two spacecraft which rendezvous and dock in Munar orbit and perform a Mun landing. A third, direct-ascent mission for an emergency craft may be launched.
   
   
3. Direct ascent: Launch one spacecraft and establish a Munar orbit. A second, direct-ascent mission for an emergency craft may be launched.
   
   

[CalculusWarrior]

Here is my entry: I did things a little unorthodox in terms of the return--but it was the kerbals' fault! Honest!

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POINTS:

Primary Mission Objective completed! +20

"The Emperor will be pleased!" (Anyone here played TIE Fighter?)

In terms of stock vs. mods, I did use Procedural Fairings for rockets, so technically it is modded. However they didn't affect the flight characteristics of the ships (actually, they had a negative impact, but they look so nice!). I don't know what your ruling will be for that.

Munar Orbit Rendezvous: +6

The great thing about these challenges is that they give you an opportunity to test out new skills and try new approaches to missions. For example, I had never done a Gemini two-kerbal capsule, used the mini docking ports, or even done a Munar Orbit Rendezvous for two separate craft for landing.

Landing Prestige: 7 + 4 = +11

Happy (or not-so happy in my case) Together: +3

We're done with that: +3

I did not in fact bring my original Gemini capsule back to Kerbin, so I didn't have the chance to show off its detachable RCS. It was essentially a clone of the rescue capsule, so it could have definitely reentered and landed safely on Kerbin. It's up to you, Death Engineering. (I'm including it in the total, but you can subtract it if necessary).

Is that a Titan II? +2

Saturn S-3? That's your full-size: +5

That's no bull: +2

Okay, it didn't look much like a Centaur kicker, but hey! It's got two engines, so it counts!

On your space bike: +4

In this case, it was a space bicycle built for two.

Dropping some weight: +3

Darn it! I forgot to include a probe core on the descent stage... Ah well, it's not like 4 points makes much of a difference... Right?

Welcome home: +10

We can take it: +3

Landing gear down: +5

Got your back: +6

GRAND TOTAL: (lemme grab a calculator...)

83 points

Not as good as FacticiusVir (shouldn't have skimped on the probe core & Saturn V), but I think that's fairly solid, and the main point of a challenge is to have fun, isn't it?

Anyways, if anyone wants to play around with the .craft files, here they are:

Gemini Style! Main Spacecraft

Gemini Style! Lander

Gemini Style! Rescue Ship

And finally, my thanks to you, Death Engineering for creating this challenge; it was a great test of my engineering and flight skills. I always love these point-driven missions.

[FacticiusVir]

If Got Your Back & We have a Reservation are exclusive, I should only have 86 points. That makes more sense, actually.

[Death Engineering]

Here is my entry: I did things a little unorthodox in terms of the return--but it was the kerbals' fault! Honest!

GRAND TOTAL: (lemme grab a calculator...)

83 points

All points earned as claimed. And, a landing on deployable gear! So great. A very good mission report, as well. Good read!

edit: Nice touch with the .craft files

Edited September 8, 2013 by Death Engineering

[Death Engineering]

If Got Your Back & We have a Reservation are exclusive, I should only have 86 points. That makes more sense, actually.

Thanks for the correction.. I did not catch it.

[WooDzor]

My first test to see if it was possible, went some what tits up (and ended up with a strut bug)

After this my cat jumped on my keyboard and my screen went blank :-( Also when I tried it later without a Kerbal on the lander i was somewhat short of dV.

ps. still uploading images, so it might take a while before all images are up :$

Edited September 10, 2013 by WooDzor

[capi3101]

Question on the "That's no bull" - does that apply to any of the rockets? I guess my question is that if I used a Centaur kicker for all three launches if I'd score +6 points, or just +2 points. Also - how does the Gemini spacecraft need to be attached to it? Does it have to be docked to a port on the craft's nose, or can it be attached aft?

Asking because I'm considering a docking maneuver in lunar orbit to go for landing. Still a bit confused on the specifics of this one - there are many ways of doing it.

[Death Engineering]

Question on the "That's no bull" - does that apply to any of the rockets? I guess my question is that if I used a Centaur kicker for all three launches if I'd score +6 points, or just +2 points. Also - how does the Gemini spacecraft need to be attached to it? Does it have to be docked to a port on the craft's nose, or can it be attached aft?

Asking because I'm considering a docking maneuver in lunar orbit to go for landing. Still a bit confused on the specifics of this one - there are many ways of doing it.

• That's no bull (+2): Trans Munar injection booster is a two-engine cluster, like the Centaur kicker stage.

This is the only booster-related rule that can be scored more than once (the others say "at least one", meaning only the first one counts). For all launches which use a twin-engine cluster kicker stage to get from Kerbin orbit to the Mun score +2. For EOR/LOR, this is a maximum of +4 points, or +6 points if an emergency return/rescue mission is also launched.

LOR is probably the best way to maximize points.. good luck!

[Death Engineering]

My first test to see if it was possible, went some what tits up (and ended up with a strut bug)

That strut bug is whackadoo..

[capi3101]

My attempt is underway; hope to have a report in a few days. So far the rescue capsule has achieved Kerbin orbit; that's about it.

[capi3101]

Question - are "Got Your Back" and "We have a Reservation" points exclusive from one another? I would assume so given the "or".

I ask because before I transferred Jeb and Bill to Mun, I landed an empty-two person emergency return capsule. It happens to be using the same general design as their Gusmobile (i.e. it is a Gemini return vehicle). When Jeb and Bill finally arrived at Mun and docked with the space bike above, they landed within 2.5 kilometers of it (I currently have the boys sheltering in it for the night; borrowed Bullseye from the Apollo mission and plan on driving them to the Memorial in the morning). It is capable of both return to Kerbin and docking with the Gemini capsule still in orbit. So, am I eligible for We Have A Reservation? Or can I earn both sets of points?

I guess this is also a status update on my mission. By my calculations so far I've racked up 54 points and I have yet to return to Kerbin.

[Death Engineering]

Sounds like a very interesting mission you have underway. The way the rules are written, since you have landed near an emergency return-capable craft, you earn "We have a Reservation" +7 pts but only that one. "Got Your Back" and "We have a Reservation" are mutually exclusive points.

[capi3101]

Finished! Will be typing up my mission report and getting the imgur album ready today - but just wanted to let you know it's forthcoming. I'm pretty sure I've screwed something up with the scoring (i.e. I may be counting points to which I am not entitled), so I'll put down my claim with my report and itemize it; it'll definitely need to be reviewed.

[capi3101]

Alright, here's my entry!!!

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And here's how I figure my points (boldfaced portions are questions):

Primary mission objective (+20):

Stock or Mod parts*. Separate leaderboard for each.

Using a mission profile of 1-2 launches and a two-Kerbal crew, orbit both Kerbals around the Mun and return the crew to Kerbin. Up to three missions (up to two if using Direct Ascent as primary mission) may be launched if a Munar rescue mission is launched.

Possible Launch Profiles:

LOR: 2 Launches of two spacecraft which rendezvous and dock in Munar orbit and perform a Mun landing. A third, direct-ascent mission for an emergency craft may be launched.

I had access to KER (as evidenced by Bullseye) but didn't use it for any of the flights. I did use the Docking Alignment Indicator mod, but that's it.

Mission

Munar Orbit Rendezvous (+6): Using two launches to low Kerbin orbit, separately send two spacecraft to Munar orbit. Once there, dock them together and complete a landing mission.

Landing prestige: One Kerbal on the Mun (+7). Second Kerbal on the Mun (+4).

Faster, better, cheaper - Rover bonus (+0): You can't afford a rover on the Gemini budget.

Capsule

Happy together (+3): Both crew members are never separated by more than 10km

We're done with that (+3): Detachable support module (Jettison from command module before Kerbin landing at least three of:RCS cells, electrical systems, lighting, legs, retro package)

Just in case (+3): Launch Escape System present

Lifter

That looks like Saturn 1B! (+4): At least one of the rockets uses a first stage cluster with 8 engines

Saturn C-3? That's your full-size (+5): At least one rocket uses a 3 engine first stage and a 4 engine second stage.

Won't Apollo miss that Saturn 5? (+6): At least one rocket uses a 5 engine first stage and a 5 engine second stage.

That's no bull (+6): Trans Munar injection booster is a two-engine cluster, like the Centaur kicker stage.

I had one in all three of my launches, thus I claim this one three times.

Lander

On your space bike (+4): At least one open cockpit lander

Dropping some weight (+3): At least one of the primary or backup Munar surface return vessels leaves behind its Munar descent stage.

Making it count (+2): Earn 'Dropping some weight' and have a powered probe core on the discarded descent stage. Must remain powered at least until the crew lands on Kerbin.

Since we're there (+2): If used, the backup Munar surface return vehicle earns 'Dropping some weight' and 'Making it count'.

The Echidna did incorporate a fully powered probe core on its descent stage, but I didn't actually launch the Echidna once it landed, so I don't know whether or not I can count the boldfaced points. I still have the Echidna on the surface and can go ahead and bring it back to Kerbin if it will make a difference.

Recovery

Welcome home (+10): Both crew return to Kerbin

We can take it (+3): Be able to safely return to Kerbin on water or land without damage.

Landing gear down (+5): Perform a parachute assisted landing on deployable wheels or skids

The Gorgon did have skids and they were down on landing, but I landed in the water, so again I don't know if I can count this one or not.

Crazy 60's details

We are outta here (+3): The Launch Escape System ejects both crew in their own separate crafts. The Gemini had fighter jet style ejection seats.

We have a reservation (+7): Land a crew on the Mun within 10km of a previously landed empty spacecraft. Must completely perform Munar ascent to Kerbin landing, or dock with a return-capable vessel in Mun orbit.

So by my reckoning - and if all the points count - I claim 106 points. I still count 94 points even if none of the ones I've asked about count; if I'm not mistaken, that puts me in the lead either way.

Edited October 3, 2013 by capi3101