Docking Frustration

[HeadHunter67]

If you can't twist your brain to convert IJKL into the actual direction of your ship in its current state, rotate your ship until you can.

Just put the camera into Chase mode! Then you don't need to "convert" anything - I will always be down on your screen, L will always be right, etc.

I don't understand why some eschew chase cam and then wrack their brains trying to overcome the very thing it's meant to solve.

[Apollo13]

1. Camera Chase mode

2. Docking Port Alignment Indicator mod

3. Docking mode. Why folks find this difficult to use, I do not understand. Much easier than IJKLHN, since you're already using WASDQE. I've programmed a mouse button such that it toggles between Rotation and Translation.

So, left hand on WASDQE, right hand on mouse to toggle Rotate/Translate. Keep my eye on Docking Port Alignment Indicator. When I'm within 15m, rotate camera so I can eyeball the two ports, while keeping an eye on the Docking Port Indicator.

And, if you need a little help, MechJeb's Docking Auto-Pilot. Don't rely on it; it's wasteful of monoprop. Just toggle it on and off as needed. When you get off alignment, toggle on and it will align you. Then toggle it off and proceed. Repeat as necessary. SIDEBAR: and to those posters who will eviscerate me for this advice...whatever.

And, finally: "Usually I just point at the screen and shout, "THE POWER OF MANLEY COMPELS YOU!!" and I end up where I want to be....."

Edited September 4, 2013 by Apollo13

[allmappedout]

3. Docking mode. Why folks find this difficult to use, I do not understand. Much easier than IJKLHN, since you're already using WASDQE. I've programmed a mouse button such that it toggles between Rotation and Translation.

Whilst I'm glad that somebody is using the docking mode (as I want to use it), it's far more useful to be able to rotate AND translate at once, particularly for poorly balanced craft. Obviously the docking indicator is useful, but it's not useful enough, yet. If it could incorporate the DPAI as well, then it'd certainly be a candidate for usage. Until then, i find having to switch modes more hassle than just having both hands on the ASDWQE and IJKLHN buttons.

[Tiron]

3. Docking mode. Why folks find this difficult to use, I do not understand. Much easier than IJKLHN, since you're already using WASDQE. I've programmed a mouse button such that it toggles between Rotation and Translation.

Keeping track of which mode you're IN.

I have ADHD, part of that is that my short term memory is shot. My working memory in particular is very, very bad.

For example, I'm good at math, almost always getting the correct answer (at least in the types of maths I've had instruction in) but NOT in my head. If the math problem in question involves keeping track of a partial result while working on the rest of it... it's going to take me an inordinately long time to get there. My processing speed is also already lower than it should be because of the ADHD, but hanging on to part of the result while I work on the rest is HARD. So what I'll normally do is get a piece of paper and just jot down all the numbers as I work on it. Writing it down doesn't really help me work it out, I'm just using it in lieu of my craptacular working memory, so I can focus on the actual math part. Unless I'm actually trying to make it clear what I was doing, it usually ends up being just a bunch of numbers with no indication of how they're related.

Given that, my chances of correctly recalling which control configuration I'm in are basically zero. I'd constantly end up re-discovering which setup I was in when I tried to do something and it turned out to be in the wrong one.

It's just easier for me to have it on a separate set of keys. Left hand on WASD, Right hand on IJKL. Only hard part is having to switch right hand to the mouse to move the camera, but I dunno how much of that I'll need to do with the Docking Port Alignment Indicator mod (I haven't actually docked anything since 0.19, I Kinda gave up on my refueling station design.)

[HeadHunter67]

I agree with the last two posts - left hand on WASDQE, right on HIJKLN. Set camera to chase mode, and with the DPAI plugin you won't need to move the mouse or toggle anything. You don't need to go into docking mode, you can orient your nose and translate without needing to switch.

[Flixxbeatz]

Here. No walls of text. No unecessary information. No commentaries. 100% pure docking.

Includes inclination matching, rendezvous, approach strategy, final meter maneuvers and aligning.

[Apollo13]

Flixxbeatz: nicely done. Simple and direct. May have been a bit more challenging if the target docking port was on other side of target vice facing the docker vehicle.

I like your signature with it's quote. I completely agree with you and Khrissetti.

[lajoswinkler]

^^and no text at all. Not very helpful.

[HeadHunter67]

Also, it kind of moves too fast for someone to learn from it. I know what I'm doing, so I can recognize the steps you are taking, but I can't imagine someone would find it instructional. I don't mean to sound negative or critical, I just think the video moves at too fast of a pace in the wrong places to be recommending it as a learning tool.

[LameLefty]

I agree with the last two posts - left hand on WASDQE, right on HIJKLN. Set camera to chase mode, and with the DPAI plugin you won't need to move the mouse or toggle anything.

Agree 100%. And even without the DPAI plug-in, it's pretty easy to get perfectly positioned from your target a couple meters away, at ~0 relative velocity in a matching orbit, with just the navball indicators.

If the target has its docking port oriented incorrectly, a simple press of the "[" or "]" key will swap vehicles. You can reorient the target, switch back, and just tap the translation controls for the final docking.

[Demobot]

Best advice I can give you: learn to use the IJKLHN keys in combination with the WADS keys and don't bother with docking mode.

Absolutely the best advice. Especially helpful if you end up with unbalanced RCS placement, which usually happens to me.

[Loerelau]

At first I was so stupid (didn't know how to change ships) that I was flying around the target... Now I just move the target in the perfect position. That helped me a lot!

[Kerbart]

Summary

• Opinions on "docking mode" vs "alphabet soup" seem divided so I don't think there's a general accepted best practice there; the best advice is experiment and see what works best for you
  
• Use camera chase view (it automatically translates the directions on your keyboard to the direction you're facing)
  
• Set the docking port you want to dock to as target
  
• Set the docking port on your vessel as "control from here"
  
• Learn to use the nav ball! It gets ridiculously easy once you're able to understand what the navball is showing.
  
• Start with ships where RCS is aligned with the center of mass, once you've mastered docking those you can move on to unaligned ships

Follow up on these points and docking becomes an exercise, not a challenge.

[BrightBritches]

My advice: don't bother shuffling around with docking mode, panning the camera, etc. to try and figure out if you're lined up. The Navball never lies

[DChurchill]

Best advice I can give you: learn to use the IJKLHN keys in combination with the WADS keys and don't bother with docking mode.

This. I remapped HN to YH, but other than that, forget docking mode.

Get either Lazor Docking Cam or Docking Port Alignment Indicator. Instrumentation is nice. I use Lazor Docking Cam.

Edited September 4, 2013 by DChurchill

[Guest]

Opinions on "docking mode" vs "alphabet soup" seem divided so I don't think there's a general accepted best practice there; the best advice is experiment and see what works best for you

Like everything else in this game. Also, chase camera is crap, I prefer free or orbital when docking, because the navball never lies.

[Scarecrow88]

Not correct. NavyFish's Docking Port Alignment Indicator is a far more powerful aid for docking. A camera can't tell you which way you need to orient to get the port in sight, which way to intuitively translate to move your prograde dead-center, or most of the other things that the DPAI can do.

Honestly, a camera's not very useful for docking, because it only helps once you've already done most of the work.

I take it you haven't used the Lazer Docking cam mod then as it's overlaid with translational and alignment markers, much the same way as Navyfish's mod, and also gives measurements for how far you are off in each direction, which is more than the Docking Alignment mod gives. In fact I have used the Docking Cam mod to dock in complete darkness when there is no image to be seen, purely by using the additional information that the mod gives.

Don't get me wrong, I have used both, and am currently using Navyfish's purely because it comes on automatically and is simple to use, but the docking cam mod gives an in-game appearance more akin to what NASA actually used.

[Tiron]

Like everything else in this game. Also, chase camera is crap, I prefer free or orbital when docking, because the navball never lies.

It's not crap, it's just...motion sickness inducing. It saves you the bother of dealing with it when you try to thrust left and it turns out you're rotated 90 degrees relative to your camera, so you just thrust down.

[Guest]

It's not crap, it's just...motion sickness inducing. It saves you the bother of dealing with it when you try to thrust left and it turns out you're rotated 90 degrees relative to your camera, so you just thrust down.

Nay, it's crap. Orbital view gives a better frame of reference for docking (because the navball doesn't lie) and doesn't cause motion sickness. So says me.

[Lanfranc]

I don't think it's helpful to say that this or that approach is crap or not worth bothering with. Try out the different approaches and see what works best for you.

For me, the breakthrough in docking was realising that the controls in docking mode are exactly the same as for controlling a Kerbal on EVA. Even though there's a lot more mass involved, since I knew how to control the EVA, I logically also had to know how to dock. I also absolutely need the chase cam to orient the different thrust vectors. I never use the navball for the actual docking, on the other hand.

It also helps a lot to have the craft's RCS thrusters properly balanced to prevent unwanted pitching and yawing whilst translating, although the new SAS seems pretty good at eliminating that as well.

[GDJ]

Y'know, it took me forever (well, maybe 5 attempts) at docking, and it's a total beyotch to do. You are controlling ten to hundreds of tonnes of spacecraft spinning around a ball at 2500 metres per second, and you are doing it all with little tiny shots of gas.Yeah, docking is bloody hard stuff, and it takes some real patience and precision "stick" handling, but I got better, my ships got better balanced, and better designed. Docking is a very steep learning curve, but once you get good at it, everything else is gravy!

[Goldham]

There is an RCS balancing Mod on the forums a few days ago that shows where to place your rcs ports and if/what direction you will rotate while firing I cant remember the name though

[HeadHunter67]

It's called RCS Build Aid. I highly recommend it for construction of ships with balanced thrusters.

[Flixxbeatz]

^^and no text at all. Not very helpful.

Because that is my point! I believe that people learn faster when they see it itself in 100% pure action (minus the mind-boggling terms and unnecessary information that makes videos 10 minutes longer).

I did compressed it as much as possible without losing any inside information, because who wants to spend 5+ minutes reading walls of text and/or 15+ minutes watching a commentary to do a single act?

YMMV, though...

Edited September 6, 2013 by Flixxbeatz

[HeadHunter67]

I take it you haven't used the Lazer Docking cam mod then as it's overlaid with translational and alignment markers, much the same way as Navyfish's mod, and also gives measurements for how far you are off in each direction, which is more than the Docking Alignment mod gives.

I've used the Docking Camera - and did until DPAI was released. Honestly, all those measurements are meaningless to me - I'm either moving towards alignment, or I'm not. About the only two numbers that matter are my distance to the port and my speed relative to it - and DPAI gives me those. I could get all my other data from the navball, but in DPAI I can keep my eyes on the window. With the alignment needles, I'm able to translate my prograde to the intersection (which represents the real location of the port) and then gradually cancel that relative velocity on my way in. It's not uncommon for me to be lined up dead-on with the port before I'm within 75m of it, and this allows me to approach very rapidly until the last few meters.

I kind of liked the authentic look of the camera, but I honestly think the image of the port is the unnecessary information in that window - and, in fact, it makes it harder to make out the cloud of numbers that surround it. I also don't like the overhead that Romfarer seems to bring to the table, along with some of the glitches I've encountered while it was installed. But I can see why it appeals to some. There's no wrong answer - I'm just going with what's proven to be highly effective for me. I was never able to accomplish high-speed docking maneuvers at these distances or these odd angles with the Docking Camera.

I believe that people learn faster when they see it itself in 100% pure action

That only works when they can see the relevant action - when sped up and cut as you did, a new viewer cannot possibly absorb or understand what you're doing.

It's readily apparent to you, of course, and to those of us who already know how to do it... but it's hardly an effective teaching aid. Still, I commend you for your contribution to the body of knowledge.

who wants to spend 5+ minutes reading walls of text and/or 15+ minutes watching a commentary to do a single act?

I learned how to do this "single act" (arguably one of the most important fundamentals of the game) by reading Blizzy's thread and watching PebbleGarden's videos. Without the commentary, it wouldn't have clicked for me like it did. But I accept that different people learn differently, and I hope some newcomers find your video helpful.

Edited September 6, 2013 by HeadHunter67