Poll, Do/Should Kerbal Genders exist?

[suzin.felipe]

Sorry Aramchek, you are mostly right, but wrong as well.

The discussion is about introducing female models to kerbals as the women that play this game are saying that this is detrimental to their enjoyment of the game.

So yes, their gender is important and the fact that female models are missing doesn't make for a "game for all people" if they saying that it doesn't because of that.

If gender is not important, let's swap! Put female only models and names to the game and let's see the size of the treads asking for male models.

[Canopus]

Why not take away all Kerbals?

[Hayoo]

Which is basically the main point of why the game doesn't need or benefit from any of those things, it's what actually makes the game a "game for all people".

Doesn't need them and yet it still has them. Has no one noticed Werner, Neil, Gene, and Bobak Kerman? Are they exceptions to the asexual rule? Flight controllers and scientists all wear male fashions, naturally meant as stand-ins for the mission control team. Is this another acceptable exception? There are male cues where asexuality is supposed to prevail. What is interesting is the idea that these male cues are perfectly fine because that is what was seen during the actual Space Race, right? But for some reason for this game it is considered foolish to have female cues unless it be from the player's own imagination or installing a mod.

Let me be blunt. The space program is male-dominated and has been from the beginning. It is natural that some of the game's visuals would reflect this because those are the images we see in photos, documentaries, and movies. But remember, this is our space program now. Can we not have a way to honor the Valentina's, Sally's, and Eilieen's as we have Wernher, Neil, and Gene?

Edited September 18, 2013 by Hayoo

[Garek]

I have read nearly every post made, while doing so I have not taken the poster's gender, race, nationality, orientation, social class, religion, health, any of that into consideration, nor should anyone else.

Which is basically the main point of why the game doesn't need or benefit from any of those things, it's what actually makes the game a "game for all people".

Well, the problem is, that to many people, the Kerbals actually appear to have a gender: male. The argument that Kerbals are legitimatly genderless because they're aliens doesn't work in my opinion because almost all of them have human or human-like names which are percieved as male. I wouldn't have a problem with Kerbals being genderless if it weren't by the names.

Also, I think if women say they want female Kerbals (Kerbal-woman? "female Kerbal" seems very awkard to me), you can't say not having them makes KSP a "game for all people". It's kind of nonsense to state KSP is for all people because it (currently) does the exact opposite of what (as stated by some of them) would help a significant group of people to better enjoy the game. If someone says "Hey, I would like this thing" you can't say "No, you like that other thing", that's just...stupid.

[sparty48]

What if they are all female? That's a question for ya.

[lajoswinkler]

I'd plot a graph showing the number of KSP users (or Squad income) over time, and then I'd replace all Kerbals with female ones. Then I'd watch.

It would be funny to see the curve behave like orbits of spacecrafts that accidentally entered an atmosphere.

It wouldn't stop me from playing, but I bet KSP would lose a huge fanbase. Face it, most of the users are young teenagers. It's obvious what would happen.

In any case, if someone doesn't understand that introduction of basic, nonfunctional sexual dimorphism into the game would be morally correct, at least he should acknowledge the positive effect on Squad income. More users, more money.

[regex]

What if they are all female? That's a question for ya.

Then we clearly need Kerbal men with Human female cues.

It is undeniable that Kerbals have Human male gender characteristics. I don't see why adding a second model and a range of additional names is such an affront to the game. I also think we'll see gender when the Kerbalizer gets included in KSP.

[M5000]

I dunno. I like it how it currently is. I mean, we kind of assume they're male because most people are generally wired by societal influences to see sex-less things as being masculine unless defined otherwise, but in reality there's nothing definitively masculine or feminine about them, other than some having traditionally male names, but others certainly have names that could be construed as female. Their appearance, to me suggests asexuality and I personally am just fine with there being no real mention or definition of their gender. Even if there have been some who claim the Kerbs are all males, I refuse to accept that analysis and assert that, at least within my own space program, the Kerbals are genderless, or, should a definite border between male and female Kerbals ever be implemented, that Nexus Aerospace Division is an equal opportunities employer destroyer. Besides, this is a space program simulator, not a sexuality simulator.

But no, I don't really have any feelings one way or the other, I feel that the current Kerbals are asexual enough to be considered genderless, and that's fine. I give less than a care /what/ I send up in my rockets, so long as whatever I send up is able to control them well, and die when I crash it, so that there is a stigma of preservation and importance of life with every manned..Or..Womanned...OR...uh..Kerbaled mission.

-M5K

[Bill Zarr]

Where are Betty, Becky and Jemima? I was disappointed that there were no kerbalettes. Are Kerbal women to be forever denied heroic action in space? I wish my cosmonauts to be progressive and to have equal representation of the sexes!

[Psycix]

The internet wants to rule34 and therefor requires females.

[sparty48]

I think the best option at this stage is just to add some female kerbal names.

[Awaras]

The internet wants to rule34 and therefor requires females.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, if that's your cup of tea), lack of females does not prevent rule 34 AT ALL...

[Moon Goddess]

My vote is for variety.

<snip>

The current Kerbals are explicitly gendered. They have male names and are presented as male. Some of them are open nods to real historical male figures.

And anyone who doesn't realize that inclusion in video games is a huge topic at the moment, and has been for several years now, should feel deeply embarrassed by their lack of attention.

And the idea presented about Kerbals being aliens having one gender, that just happens (amazing coincidence!) to perfectly mirror the traits that our culture uses to designate males is pure sophistry. This is a game designed by human beings for human beings using human frames of reference. Gender norms are not accidental any more than using north South East and West for the compass rose is accidental. Funny, turns out the Kerbals use our compass too. What a coincidence!

At this point in our culture, and in video game culture specifically, the inclusion or not of female characters to go along with the male characters is a deliberate choice. Either way is a deliberate choice. The ships of 'We forgot' or 'It never occurred to us that is might matter' sailed a decade ago. And should the developers deliberately choose not to give half the human race characters to identify with it would be a massive slap in the face on at least two levels.

On the first level is the absurd ease involved in adding the feature. The grand total investment needed would be a few dozen names added to the random name generator, and perhaps a couple close cropped hair styles that would not interfere with the current EVA suit models. They wouldn't even need to make sure the name generator and hair have any relationship to each other. In my opinion there would be something particularly Kerbalish about them being mixed up every which way.

By in my opinion the far bigger insult would be to the ideals that this game celebrates. The history of space flight has always involved pushing boundaries and celebrating the best and brightest. This has included people like Sally Ride and Christa McAuliffe and Valentina Tereshkova and Roberta Bondar, as well as people orbiting this planet this very moment who also happen to be female. For KSP to have no place for them and those of both genders who idolize them would be deeply distressing.

I would agree if it would be true but... they didn't avoid it.

Kerbals are not gender-neutral looking creatures. They aren't really masculine, but have you looked at Squad's youtube trailers? There are Kerbal analogues of real life famous males. Von Braun, Cernan, even Ferdowsi.

I also want real content, all that is a valid argument, but you're not completely correct.

Just tagging things that I really really need to +rep if all the AJAX stuff wasn't broken.

[KatzOhki]

I've always assumed that there are sexes, but either there is little dimorphism or the kerbal women's rights movement hasn't kicked off yet. Maybe we can research female astronauts? Actually, who's to say all the kerbal a we've sent to space aren't actually 100% female?

[regex]

Just tagging things that I really really need to +rep if all the AJAX stuff wasn't broken.

Right click the icon under the post and "Open in new tab". That's worked for me in Chrome on the phone and desktop.

[Rage097]

...ANOTHER one of these threads? I'm at a loss for words.

We ALL know these never end well.

[Guest]

I voted asexual because, like every other thread on this subject, I simply do not care. It won't change the way I play the game one way or the other.

[AmpsterMan]

Is it weird that I just want a female Kerbals so that I could get one, change her name to my gf, and then take pictures of her Kerbal with my Kerbal in different celestial bodies?

[Rage097]

Exactly, Why is there this whole idotic issue that always leads to flamewars when the simple solution is: They are genderless. They are like ameobas. You can pretend that they're male OR female because they ALL LOOK EXACTLY ALIKE.

Female NAMES don't matter becuase Kerbals have a different society than us and therefore, different naming styles. it is entirely possible Jeb, Bill and Bob are female.

Looks don't matter because they all look exactly the same, thus meaning you can imagine that they're female or male.

If it REALLY bugs you that much, edit the files for the names of the Kerbals to whatever you like.

Now can a Mod please close this because it will inevitably get out of hand.

EDIT: This is in response to jack Wolfe. to avoid confusion with the person above me.

[GusTurbo]

Exactly, Why is there this whole idotic issue that always leads to flamewars when the simple solution is: They are genderless. They are like ameobas. You can pretend that they're male OR female because they ALL LOOK EXACTLY ALIKE.

Female NAMES don't matter becuase Kerbals have a different society than us and therefore, different naming styles. it is entirely possible Jeb, Bill and Bob are female.

Looks don't matter because they all look exactly the same, thus meaning you can imagine that they're female or male.

If it REALLY bugs you that much, edit the files for the names of the Kerbals to whatever you like.

Now can a Mod please close this because it will inevitably get out of hand.

EDIT: This is in response to jack Wolfe. to avoid confusion with the person above me.

The problem with your view is that a number of women, those who have actually spoken out on the subject despite open hostility from posters like you, have explicitly said that they would enjoy the game more if female Kerbals were added. Who are you to say their opinions don't matter and should be ignored?

The fact that Kerbals all look the same does not mean they lack an apparent gender. They all look male. They have traits associated with masculinity (short flat-top style hair, square jaw, male names). The game was designed by humans for humans, so we see them through the lens of our perception of humans.

Edited September 18, 2013 by GusTurbo

[Rage097]

The problem with your view is that a number of women, those who have actually spoken out on the subject despite open hostility from posters like you, have explicitly said that they would enjoy the game more if female Kerbals were added. Who are you to say their opinions don't matter and should be ignored?

Where did I say their opinion didn't matter? and Where did I say they should be ignored

I said that this topic is going to end with Flame wars, several threads of this matter have.

I gave my opinion. And gave my reasoning.

And if I for some reason sounded hostile, I by no means meant it that way. My problem with this topic is that it requires heavy moderation and NO ONE can agree. It doesn't end well for anyone. I sincerely hope that people can have a discussion in this thread without Name-calling or Flaming.

And by the way, if anything you sounded much more hostile than myself. But I digress, Carry on.

[Tw1]

Is it weird that I just want a female Kerbals so that I could get one, change her name to my gf, and then take pictures of her Kerbal with my Kerbal in different celestial bodies?

Nope. I think that's cool idea. You could do a grand tour together!

a number of women, those who have actually spoken out on the subject despite open hostility from posters like you, have explicitly said that they would enjoy the game more if female Kerbals were added. Who are you to say their opinions don't matter and should be ignored?

I'd enjoy the game more if they were there, and I'm a guy.

I really don't see a solid argument why there should not be.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Tw1

[Rage097]

Gender equality is an issue that infuriates people for some odd reason. I'm all for it, and I'm fine with female kerbals, But demanding it means it may take the place of say, RESOURCES on the priority list.

[leax256]

for those who are saying use your imagination...society killed my imagination and creativity long ago...I have no imagination, Barney was wrong.

[regex]

Gender equality is an issue that infuriates people for some odd reason. I'm all for it, and I'm fine with female kerbals, But demanding it means it may take the place of say, RESOURCES on the priority list.

Wasn't there talk about adding the Kerbalizer into the game for variety? I don't see any reason to rush that process, so I'm content to wait until that time for female Kerbals. In fact, that'd be the perfect time to add them so that the devs can assuage any accusations of maliciously sidelining other's pet features/optimizations.