Mun/Minmus Lander design help

[Sovek]

So yeah, need some help. I have most of the lander design, its a two stage bit, with three Rockomax 7S for the decent stage, and two 77s for the accent stage. I tweaked the file so the thing isnt so stupidly heavy (a 1man Lander can is .6T, the 2 man is 2.5 )

So, with use of parts clipping (anyone else consider this NOT cheating?) and those toroidal fuel tanks, I have a working two stage lander with over 1.5 Km/s of ÃŽâ€V, that can be tucked inside a 3.75m Interstage from KW Rocketry (or other means) for Apollo Style missions. Yeah, I like.

However due to my recent decision to stop using half-cheats, like being able to orient ships with reaction wheels, I've got an issue with the RCS fuel for this thing. I only need a small amount, not a whole heaping lot. So one side mounted RCS tanks should suffice. This allows me to cut down the weight for my lander (and rocket overall) along with some nice T:R. The issue is being where and HOW to place this single, radially mounted RCS tank. I've tried placing it under the docking port, much like the rest of the fuel tanks but that didn't work.

Ideas or a mod part would be appreciated.

[magnemoe]

Why so complicated?

One S7, 45 liter fuel, okto2 probe, seat, solar panels on top and two sides, You might want to use the medium landing legs or put the small on struts to get wider base.

Can land and get back from Val and Duna.

This one has an junior docking port so I can reuse it.

Only hard thing with the design is to get the seat centered so the kerbal don't offset the center of mas.

Edited September 29, 2013 by magnemoe

[regex]

AIES has some nice tiny RCS bubble tanks, might want to check that out.

[Sovek]

Historical and realism. We dont/didnt strap astronauts to the top of something with just a seat and then land it. Besides, its not overly complicated either.

Edit: And besides, no RCS on your option either.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Sovek

[JakeGrey]

If these aren't big enough then look for BFT Conformal Tanks.

[Sovek]

If these aren't big enough then look for BFT Conformal Tanks.

Its not a matter of not big enough, its a matter of too big. You dont need that much RCS even when not using reaction wheels. Despite popular belief I rarely if ever use RCS for landing, since I'm capable of nulling most horizontal speed while burning the descent stage.

[Sovek]

AIES has some nice tiny RCS bubble tanks, might want to check that out.

Wow, just wow. Thank you very much for suggesting that mod. That thing opens up SOOOO many options to make it even more like the apollo rockets, such as the High Gain Antenna. Time to get busy. KW+AIES, awesome.

[spikeyhat09]

why not just put another RCS tank on the other side?

is the extra 0.01% mass increase really gonna drag ya down?

[Kerbart]

So yeah, need some help. I have most of the lander design, its a two stage bit, with three Rockomax 7S for the decent stage, and two 77s for the accent stage. I tweaked the file so the thing isnt so stupidly heavy (a 1man Lander can is .6T, the 2 man is 2.5 )

That's how engineering tends to work. Size increases trigger more size increases (the support structure needs to be stronger, you need bigger tanks and batteries and so on) so doubling the payload usually results in a disproportional increase in launch weight. Plus... unless you want the top of the lander to be open (and I'm under the impression you don't) and unless you don't want a bottom either... double the diameter and you need four times as much material for those. And because they need to handle stresses over a longer distance (twice as wide) they'll have to be thicker too. All in all, the increase from .6 to 2.5 seems perfectly reasonable to me. It's the price you pay for going bigger.

As magnemoe shows, once you go the other direction it's amazing how much lighter you can get once you start shedding weight.

[TheIncredibleDalek]

Also, don't forget landing legs. Those bits are important. Oh, and rockets. Almost forgot those. Seriously, though. Don't forget lights. Had a slight run-in with an unseen canyon on the dark side of minimus. No lights. The lander is mostly alright, minus the parts that aren't alright. Good thing its only a multimillion dollar probe. *shrugs

[Sovek]

My problem is that in KSP, I could stack 2 Mk 1 Lander cans on top of each other to get the same effect. Also right now, the x4 multiplier in weight doesnt make a seperate lander for the mun more feasible unlike the real life apollo missions.

My other beef is that a 3 man capsule is 4t and nigh indestructable.

[JaneKermen]

deleted by poster

Edited October 4, 2013 by JaneKermen

[Dkmdlb]

Why are reaction wheels a half cheat? Seems to me they are used in real life in the exact way in which you intend to use them. What's wrong with that?

Edited September 30, 2013 by Dkmdlb
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