[WIP] Nert's Dev Thread - Current: various updates

[Captain Sierra]

Because we don't have a nose that opens

Not yet. One is coming, just not on initial release.

[Herr Doktor Strangemember]

Well good news of a kind, I got the Mk4 cockpit to show up, however I did it by changing the .cfg from 'TechRequired = largeControl' to

'TechRequired = experimentalAerodynamics'. Now why is 'largeControl' there in the first place and causing problems? Anyone know what mod uses that node? Thanks in advance.

[blowfish]

Well good news of a kind, I got the Mk4 cockpit to show up, however I did it by changing the .cfg from 'TechRequired = largeControl' to

'TechRequired = experimentalAerodynamics'. Now why is 'largeControl' there in the first place and causing problems? Anyone know what mod uses that node? Thanks in advance.

Most likely Community Tech Tree.

[riocrokite]

Edit: 1st and 3rd point are actually invalid since ramp has adjustable angle and you can raise back gear to effectively make the floor-ramp-ground surface flat (\o/) :

did some tests with big rovers (MFS) and mk4;

1st thing is that stock wheels easily broke on the ramp but stock wheels had always problems with any types of ramps;

2nd thing; MFS main rover equipment is a bit too high to fit inside mk4 cargobay however offseting it downwards a bit resolves the issue; I think I might modify it a bit to fit correclty later on without offset

3rd thing; I don't know if it's possible, but having the ramp extend in length so it's 1.5-2x longer when extended would help with loading / unloading tall and long rovers since the angle between the ramp and floor would be smaller; something like here below. This is probably reason why there is special loading equipment for big transporters (so loading surface is flat and there's no angle between floor and ramp:))

Ideal angle (0 degrees) is ofc not possible since it requires additional specialized truck/equipment:

Some photos from test:

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[Rouda]

Firstly, thank you for so many amazing mods. They make the game so much more fun to play.

I'm also having issues with several missing parts. Those include the cockpit, Armadillo, Iguana, Single Adapter, Dual Adapter, and MkIV-MkIII Adapter. I have all fuselages and cargo bays. I'm not sure if I'm missing any other parts. I know the file structure is correct, i.e. "KSP/GameData/MarkIVSystem/Parts/etc"

I tried running the mod on a second, vanilla KSP install and everything worked fine with no missing parts. I'm only missing parts on my main install, which includes the following mods:

REMOTE TECH v1.6.7

REMOTE TECH XF v1.6.7.0

SCANSAT v13.4

UNIVERSAL STORAGE v1.1.0.6

STOCKALIKE STATION PARTS v0.3.3

NEAR FUTURE SOLAR v0.5.3

NEAR FUTURE CONSTRUCTION v0.5.4

NEAR FUTURE SPACECRAFT PARTS v0.4.3

NEAR FUTURE ELECTRICAL v0.5.2

NEAR FUTURE PROPULSION v0.5.3

MECHJEB2 v2.5.2.0

INFERNAL ROBOTICS v0.21.3

KERBAL ALARM CLOCK v3.4.0.0

FUSEBOX v1.50

ENHANCHED NAVBALL v1.3.6.0

AVIATION LIGHTS v3.7

RASTERPROPMONITOR v0.21.0

DMAGIC ORBITAL SCIENCE v1.0.7

HEAT MANAGEMENT v0.25

EVA HANDRAILS PACK CONTINUED v0.2.0

KAS v0.5.3

KIS v1.2.0

OSE WORKSHOP v0.9.2

DISTANT OBJECT ENHANCEMENT v1.5.7

MARKIVSYSTEM v2.0.1

CHATTERER v0.9.6

KERBAL JOINT REINFORCEMENT v3.1.4

B9 AEROSPACE PROCEDURAL PARTS v0.40

DOCKING PORT ALIGNMENT INDICATOR v6.2

NOVAPUNCH v2.09

USI FTT v0.4.1

KARBONITE v0.6.2

I apologize for the caps. That's just how I formatted my list.

----

I've experienced a few visual bugs as well.

http://imgur.com/a/aQbMH

In the first two pictures at that link you can see I lined a battery up with the rear edge of the tail for reference. As I rotate the view to see from below, the third picture shows the farthest back bit of the surface 'dissapears'.

The fourth picture shows a few 'surface attach' parts floating when I tried attaching them to the bottom of the cargo bay.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Rouda

[ModZero]

What about a 2-section ramp? Might be tricky to make it appear structurally sound, but something like this:

[Rouda]

Well good news of a kind, I got the Mk4 cockpit to show up, however I did it by changing the .cfg from 'TechRequired = largeControl' to

'TechRequired = experimentalAerodynamics'. Now why is 'largeControl' there in the first place and causing problems? Anyone know what mod uses that node? Thanks in advance.

I tried that and now the cockpit and other previously missing pieces are showing for me as well. Thanks!

[Donziboy2]

Well thanks to all the people whining about how stock heating was not strong enough, Eve is now an SSTO no fly zone....

Things started heating up far faster then even DRE would back in 0.9....

[Herr Doktor Strangemember]

Firstly, thank you for so many amazing mods. They make the game so much more fun to play.

I'm also having issues with several missing parts. Those include the cockpit, Armadillo, Iguana, Single Adapter, Dual Adapter, and MkIV-MkIII Adapter. I have all fuselages and cargo bays. I'm not sure if I'm missing any other parts. I know the file structure is correct, i.e. "KSP/GameData/MarkIVSystem/Parts/etc"

I tried running the mod on a second, vanilla KSP install and everything worked fine with no missing parts. I'm only missing parts on my main install, which includes the following mods:

REMOTE TECH v1.6.7

REMOTE TECH XF v1.6.7.0

SCANSAT v13.4

UNIVERSAL STORAGE v1.1.0.6

STOCKALIKE STATION PARTS v0.3.3

NEAR FUTURE SOLAR v0.5.3

NEAR FUTURE CONSTRUCTION v0.5.4

NEAR FUTURE SPACECRAFT PARTS v0.4.3

NEAR FUTURE ELECTRICAL v0.5.2

NEAR FUTURE PROPULSION v0.5.3

MECHJEB2 v2.5.2.0

INFERNAL ROBOTICS v0.21.3

KERBAL ALARM CLOCK v3.4.0.0

FUSEBOX v1.50

ENHANCHED NAVBALL v1.3.6.0

AVIATION LIGHTS v3.7

RASTERPROPMONITOR v0.21.0

DMAGIC ORBITAL SCIENCE v1.0.7

HEAT MANAGEMENT v0.25

EVA HANDRAILS PACK CONTINUED v0.2.0

KAS v0.5.3

KIS v1.2.0

OSE WORKSHOP v0.9.2

DISTANT OBJECT ENHANCEMENT v1.5.7

MARKIVSYSTEM v2.0.1

CHATTERER v0.9.6

KERBAL JOINT REINFORCEMENT v3.1.4

B9 AEROSPACE PROCEDURAL PARTS v0.40

DOCKING PORT ALIGNMENT INDICATOR v6.2

NOVAPUNCH v2.09

USI FTT v0.4.1

KARBONITE v0.6.2

I apologize for the caps. That's just how I formatted my list.

----

I've experienced a few visual bugs as well.

http://imgur.com/a/aQbMH

In the first two pictures at that link you can see I lined a battery up with the rear edge of the tail for reference. As I rotate the view to see from below, the third picture shows the farthest back bit of the surface 'dissapears'.

The fourth picture shows a few 'surface attach' parts floating when I tried attaching them to the bottom of the cargo bay.

Ok here is my list of mods that we seem to have in common;

ScanSat v14.0

Stockalike Station Parts v0.3.3

Near Future Solar 0.5.3

Near Future Construction 0.5.4

Near Future Spacecraft Parts 0.4.3

Near Future Electrical 0.5.2

Near Future Propulsion 0.5.3

MechJeb 2.5.3

Infernal Robotics 0.21.2

Kerbal Alarm Clock 3.4.0.0

Fusebox 1.5

Rasterprop Monitor 0.21.1

Dmagic Orbital Science 1.0.7

KAS 0.5.3

KIS 1.2.0

OSE Workshop 0.9.2

Chatterer 0.9.6

Kerbal Joint Reinforcement 3.1.4

Novapunch 2.09

RoverDude USI mods (all current)

B9 Aerospace Procedural Parts 0.40

Hope that's useful to someone.

[Streetwind]

Well thanks to all the people whining about how stock heating was not strong enough, Eve is now an SSTO no fly zone....

Things started heating up far faster then even DRE would back in 0.9....

You're in timewarp. Timewarp screws up reentry heating. Do not timewarp on reentry.

Now I'm not saying it is guaranteed to work without timewarp, but it will at least avoid bugs.

Also, pull your nose higher. Do something like: 92km circular orbit, create 80km periapsis. And then put the nose to the sky, flat pancake full on as long as you can maintain control over. You need to shed speed in a hurry if you want to have any chance whatsoever. Use RCS to help bring the apoapsis down into the atmosphere early. If you still take too long to slow down, experiment with a lower initial peripiapsis, even if it sounds counterintuitive. Beware of the "Mars Atmosphere Dilemma", AKA having just enough air to cook you, not enough air to slow you down. You may need to go lower earlier. But not too low too early, obviously.

Did I mention airbrakes? They have downright magic slowdown abilities. When you can no longer pancake, you want a set of those on your craft. Because again, you don't have enough time to shed speed by coasting before you burn up. You need to brake as hard as you can during all stages of descent.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Streetwind

[Donziboy2]

You're in timewarp. Timewarp screws up reentry heating. Do not timewarp on reentry.

Now I'm not saying it is guaranteed to work without timewarp, but it will at least avoid bugs.

Also, pull your nose higher. Do something like: 92km circular orbit, create 80km periapsis. And then put the nose to the sky, flat pancake full on as long as you can maintain control over. You need to shed speed in a hurry if you want to have any chance whatsoever. Use RCS to help bring the apoapsis down into the atmosphere early. If you still take too long to slow down, experiment with a lower initial peripiapsis, even if it sounds counterintuitive. Beware of the "Mars Atmosphere Dilemma", AKA having just enough air to cook you, not enough air to slow you down. You may need to go lower earlier. But not too low too early, obviously.

Did I mention airbrakes? They have downright magic slowdown abilities. When you can no longer pancake, you want a set of those on your craft. Because again, you don't have enough time to shed speed by coasting before you burn up. You need to brake as hard as you can during all stages of descent.

Ill give it another try after work, its a 300+T brick so falling is easy, stopping not so much. May have to dump alot of fuel, since I can refuel on the ground or in the air . I actually built a few electic prop craft that could carry 30+T out of Eve atmo back in 0.24/0.9, sadly DRE like to burn off the control surfaces.

[riocrokite]

had some fun today building mk3-mk4 ssto/ tsto; some pics below; 2.5m rapier engine balancing seems to be great

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[Streetwind]

had some fun today building mk3-mk4 ssto/ tsto; some pics below; 2.5m rapier engine balancing seems to be great

That kind of looks like a tomcat... a ridiculously oversized tomcat... with burning wingtips...

Edited July 14, 2015 by Streetwind

[nalfz]

Well thanks to all the people whining about how stock heating was not strong enough, Eve is now an SSTO no fly zone....

[snip]

Not so

You just need enough lift to maintain level flight in the upper atmosphere until your speed drops below 1km/s then you can pitch down and drop like a rock until the lower atmosphere to land

Although I must say, a mk-IV sized heatshield to go on the bottom of these parts would be pretty nice

[loppnessmonsta]

Ill give it another try after work, its a 300+T brick so falling is easy, stopping not so much. May have to dump alot of fuel, since I can refuel on the ground or in the air . I actually built a few electic prop craft that could carry 30+T out of Eve atmo back in 0.24/0.9, sadly DRE like to burn off the control surfaces.

You could also try retro rockets. Because reasons and explosions!

[Donziboy2]

Not so

You just need enough lift to maintain level flight in the upper atmosphere until your speed drops below 1km/s then you can pitch down and drop like a rock until the lower atmosphere to land

Although I must say, a mk-IV sized heatshield to go on the bottom of these parts would be pretty nice

Mostly did that, problem I had last night is once I slowed down, the craft was unstable at high altitude and low speed. Not sure if I want to bother messing with it anymore or go do something else.

[Bakase]

Well here we go. Here is a test release!

Here are also some notes:

Things that are probably done (so any problems here are bugs):

• All the engines
  
• Various intakes and nacelle parts
  

Things that aren't done or are bugs and I know about:

• No cabin lights yet
  
• Texture colour matching needs to be done still (particularly for the adapters, tails and the cockpit)
  
• Most Mk4 crossection parts lack specular maps
  
• A couple fuselage parts have unwelded seams (if you see any let me know)
  
• Cargo tail part isn't textured or anything
  
• Cargo tail ramp can't alter its angle in the VAB yet
  
• Cargo tail ramp snaps back to horizontal without animating when it is closed
  
• IVAs are really nowhere (cockpit needs reinstrumentation, crew cabin needs textures, finished model and stuff)
  
• Hatches and ladders are kinda buggered at the moment.
  

Things that could use looking at:

• Curves and performance of the engines
  
• Masses and costs of various parts (should match mk3 reasonably well)
  
• Ensuring cargo bays properly occlude
  
• Testing cargo ramp's functionality for loading cargo and stuff
  
• How things work with FAR?
  

Bundles InterstellarFuelSwitch, BDAnimationModules. License is CC-BY-NC-4.0.

Generally, how do things work? And if you build anything cool... Let me know .

So nobody seems to have done extensive testing with FAR... I played with it a bit. It's fun, the parts all play nice with FAR (new voxel model means no special configs necessary). No huge bugs to report, besides one config issue -- you're changing the lifting body / control surface modules around in a way that prevents FAR's original configs from working or the modules are computed after FAR and that breaks it. This causes the body to revert to stock lift code instead.

Vis-a-vis balancing, I haven't really had that much time to test, but things seem decent enough.

Is there any specific testing procedure I should follow?

One thing -- and this isn't a FAR issue to the best of my knowledge, but I can't get the engines to do the pretty glowy thing. What am I doing wrong?

[riocrokite]

example use-case for extra-high version of cargobay; taken from reddit (stock parts):

https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/3deqjq/introducing_the_buff_2_huge_stock_parts_far_cargo/

[Nertea]

Progress report for today:

• Fixed up a few compatability patches - CTT, CLS and FAR should be good now
  
• Fixed the tech tree locations for everything
  
• Went over seams on all but the adapter pieces - we should be almost good here, adapters need texture completion first
  
• Spent some time tweaking the Dudley - it now works quite well up to 10,000m, but doesn't go very fast (hard to break the sound barrier), which is exactly where I want it. Also poked the turbojet a bit.
  
• Specular maps for everything except the adapters!
  
• Started relaying out the cockpit IVA. This is a little harder than anticipated - I can't just transfer because everything is a bit bigger. Still, means more instrument panel room!
  
• Completed the final model for the cargo bay
  

Tomorrow I'll finish the cockpit instrumentation, tackle the misaligned pieces (there are one or two) and hopefully unwrap and texture the cargo bay. New test release on Friday, probably.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Nertea

[Svm420]

I can't remember how it was previously, so will RPM support be included or will that be a community effort?

[Captain Sierra]

I can't remember how it was previously, so will RPM support be included or will that be a community effort?

Unless something's changed with Nertea's workflow, then he will be doing full RPM displays for these. At one point he bundled RPM with NF spacecraft because the mk3-9 IVA was wholly designed around a custom RPM monitor he uses in it. The cockpit IVA will definitely be designed for RPM first, stock second.

[Nertea]

Yeah, RPM will happen. It usually does, but another layout for the cockpit will take a while.

Anyways, new prerelease.

• Added CLS passability to ventral cargo bays
  
• Added CTT support
  
• Added a first pass at a basic FAR patch (removes moduleLiftingSurface from all parts that have it)
  
• Added specular maps to cockpit, drone core, basic fuselage pieces, dorsal/ventral cargo bays, crew cabin, service bay
  
• Added improved model and AO bake for cargo tail
  
• Fixed CLS patch not targeting Mk4 Cockpit properly
  
• Reworked thrust curve for Dudley, should be better at high altitudes now
  
• Increased base thrust and Isp of Dudley
  
• Redid IVA prop placement for Mk4 Cockpit
  
• Finalized stock tech tree locations of parts
  
• Fixed most seams for fuselage pieces, dorsal/ventral cargo bays, crew cabin, drone core, service bay, nacelles
  
• Fixed some smoothing groups for several parts
  
• Fixed tail cargo bay occluding objects on the side mounts
  
• Adjusted surface attach node on heavy precooler
  
• Fixed intake transform on Heavy Extended Engine Nacelle
  

Could use some checks on FAR stuff, but I'm pretty happy with things. Also of course any testing of engine/part balance is helpful.

Remaining issues:

• Advanced Shock Intake doesn't always animate correctly.
  
• Texture colour matching needs to be done still (particularly for the adapters, tails and the cockpit)
  
• Cargo tail part texture is unfinished
  
• Cargo tail ramp can't alter its angle in the VAB yet
  
• Cargo tail ramp snaps back to horizontal without animating when it is closed
  
• Crew cabin IVA needs work
  

Edited July 17, 2015 by Nertea

[AccidentalDisassembly]

Found one texturing issue to look at - this is the shortest Mk4 cargo bay (top-loading) piece:

Second small thing - I think this is another seam issue, on the tail cargo ramp - it's kind of hard to see in the image, so I put red around it:

If I could make a suggestion for a part sometime down the road, like 2.2 or 2.9 or whatever you want - it might be neat to have a fuel-tank like part that you could attach to the bottom of other Mk4 bits, especially the hollow stuff. Would make the floor thicker, effectively, and then you could surface attach stuff without having it clip through the floor. Green bit in the image is supposed to be a stack node, blue part is the cross-section of the piece, landing gear for example. Bonus: geometrically simple to model, hopefully simple to texture! Maybe they could be auxiliary tanks, or specialized tanks for LH or Argon or somethingorother.

Another minor issue: the engine pods' attach node is flipped so that the parts' default orientation on surface attachment is inside the surface of the thing they're attached to rather than outside:

Edited July 18, 2015 by AccidentalDisassembly

[SmashBrown]

Thanks Nertea!

[Captain Sierra]

If I could make a suggestion for a part sometime down the road, like 2.2 or 2.9 or whatever you want - it might be neat to have a fuel-tank like part that you could attach to the bottom of other Mk4 bits, especially the hollow stuff. Would make the floor thicker, effectively, and then you could surface attach stuff without having it clip through the floor. Green bit in the image is supposed to be a stack node, blue part is the cross-section of the piece, landing gear for example. Bonus: geometrically simple to model, hopefully simple to texture! Maybe they could be auxiliary tanks, or specialized tanks for LH or Argon or somethingorother.

Interesting concept. Could definitely see uses for it.

As for your landing gear problem, perhaps I can offer an alternate solution. The largest (4-wheel) gear when mounted underneath the lateral blisters extends as far as the medium gear mounted under the centerline. Whether this is intentional or not is unclear, but it is definitely advantageous to not have your gear bays intersect with your interior storage.

UPDATE:

Grabbed the prerelease and stripped EVERYTHING else out of my gamedata, since I was getting some obscene wierdness with part joints failing but not failing and my logs getting spammed with nullrefs. Not sure what I did to .... off the holy Kraken, but he did not take mercy on my game. Hopefuly I've fixed that.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Captain Sierra