[0.25] Engine Ignitor (Workaround for some bugs V3.4.1: Aug.31)

[guto8797]

I don't believe this isn't an Engine Ignitor issue. Did you just recently update RealFuels to v6+. That is my guess, the new RealFuel's update broke it and a couple other things.

I don't haz real fuelz. I haz modular tanks. As a verification, what is the folder name for real fuels? perhaps it is hidden somewhere but i don't think so. Any log i can provide? PLease don't ask me my mod list... It is... Humunguous.

[RedAV8R]

I don't haz real fuelz. I haz modular tanks. As a verification, what is the folder name for real fuels? perhaps it is hidden somewhere but i don't think so. Any log i can provide? PLease don't ask me my mod list... It is... Humunguous.

Well, modular tanks is based on the same code, not surprised if it's the cause either. RealFuels is the folder name, can't miss it.

[guto8797]

Well, modular tanks is based on the same code, not surprised if it's the cause either. RealFuels is the folder name, can't miss it.

Thanks. Modular fuel tanks was the issue. Removing fixez. Me happy. Me can spin rocketz to get fuelz. But now seriously, modular tanks is incompatible and can anyone cite an important mod that uses it? I can't recall why i have it

[RedAV8R]

Modular Fuel Tanks is a spin off of RealFuels, that basically gave the user better control of how much fuel is in a tank, I don't use MFT, I use RealFuels which gives a user actual fuels and makes things more realistic both in name and weight, like actually put Kerosene and LiquidOxygen. I don't think it has the engine component of RealFuels though I could be wrong, depends on what you use, MFT will be updated I'm sure as soon as the bug is figured out. I know I'm waiting for RealFuels to be fixed as well.

[guto8797]

Well, hello again! I have tried the mod, and i gotta say, it is pretty awesome. I just need some advice now.

My first rockets rely on a first SRB stage, which then drops off and launches a LF stage. Unfortunatly, the sudden variation is speed upon dropping the boosters causes the engine to shut down. I have even tried turning it on while the boosters where still on, but the same, dropping them causes the engine to shut off. Any tips?

[HoneyFox]

Well, hello again! I have tried the mod, and i gotta say, it is pretty awesome. I just need some advice now.

My first rockets rely on a first SRB stage, which then drops off and launches a LF stage. Unfortunatly, the sudden variation is speed upon dropping the boosters causes the engine to shut down. I have even tried turning it on while the boosters where still on, but the same, dropping them causes the engine to shut off. Any tips?

Perhaps the aero drag is bigger than the thrust? thus your rocket is actually deaccelerating at that moment, which makes the fuel float to the top section of the tank, and the inlet will fail to get fuel and the engine will be shut down.

Usually this is not a problem when you are already in upper atmosphere because the air is pretty thin up there. Also some small separatron SRBs can help to keep ullaging when you are staging (and haven't brought up the upper stage engine's throttle).

Edited June 10, 2014 by HoneyFox

[HoneyFox]

Can anyone help me? I dont know what is going on

Engine ignitor is correctly installed, parts show up, engine tooltips and etc correct, but its almost like it doesnt work at all! No hypergolic fuel is consumed on hypergolic engines and no ignitors are consumed on regular engines! What could be wrong?

I also have RPM (with MFD) and Vessel viewer. I installed the Engine ignitor main file, along with RPM, vessel viewer compatible version (in a different folder, as provided in the zip: My gamedaya has EngineIgnitor and RPMEngine Ignitor)

EDIT: Hummm... i noticed now, on flight, engine status are duplicate. odd. there are two sets of engine stability etc

EDIT2 : Got rid of duplicates, had duplicate configs. Problem persists. NO hypergolic fuel nor ignitors consumed. Shows Engine State INVALID

So at least no duplicate status in the context menu?

I need to make another check on my code, it seems like some codes that interact with RealFuels/ModularFuelTanks has some issue.

[coldblade2000]

Real Engines EngineIgnitor configs are done! It only took a few months but its done. Here's the first release: https://github.com/coldblade2000/Rea...eases/tag/V1.0

Criticism and corrections are welcome. I would appreciate it if you sent me a PM since I can't be checking this thread every single day.

[NathanKell]

TeeGee:

1. The LV-909 supports Nitrous Oxide + Amines, Kerosene + HTP, and LH2 + LOX. The first two are hypergolic. All three have unlimited ignitions. That selection of mixtures was based on it being a British engine; the British in RftS hate toxic propellants (esp. hydrazine/NTO derivatives) and therefore use those two for their storables rather than others.

2. The LV-T30 is an engine for booster applications. High TWR, high thrust, low expansion ratio. The Skipper is an upper stage engine: lower TWR, low thrust, and high expansion ratio for upper atmosphere/vacuum use. As I explained before, engine bell size has little to do with thrust--you can only compare bell sizes between engines with the same expansion ratio.

3. The large radial engine, as its description says, is a derivative of the Miles and used solely for booster applications. The small radial is a vernier for booster engines, same deal.

Where I got these engine stats from is "what would be a good role for this engine, what would a realistic engine with approximately this appearance do" and then balanced the stats against reality (in particular, ignitions based on role, TWR based on extensive research).

The most realistic engine stats are obviously RealEngines. Until recently, they haven't had engine ignitor support; coldblade2000 just uploaded a patch, however; check the end of the RO thread (or this thread).

At this point, if none of the engine configs that are available are to your taste: make your own. It's not hard; in the second post in RF I link the tool I use to make configs; it's not that hard to use and has extensive documentation. Then you'll have exactly the configs you want.

====

Re: RFv6, EI: I'm investigating the issue as soon as I get home.

[TeeGee]

TeeGee:

1. The LV-909 supports Nitrous Oxide + Amines, Kerosene + HTP, and LH2 + LOX. The first two are hypergolic. All three have unlimited ignitions. That selection of mixtures was based on it being a British engine; the British in RftS hate toxic propellants (esp. hydrazine/NTO derivatives) and therefore use those two for their storables rather than others.

2. The LV-T30 is an engine for booster applications. High TWR, high thrust, low expansion ratio. The Skipper is an upper stage engine: lower TWR, low thrust, and high expansion ratio for upper atmosphere/vacuum use. As I explained before, engine bell size has little to do with thrust--you can only compare bell sizes between engines with the same expansion ratio.

3. The large radial engine, as its description says, is a derivative of the Miles and used solely for booster applications. The small radial is a vernier for booster engines, same deal.

Where I got these engine stats from is "what would be a good role for this engine, what would a realistic engine with approximately this appearance do" and then balanced the stats against reality (in particular, ignitions based on role, TWR based on extensive research).

The most realistic engine stats are obviously RealEngines. Until recently, they haven't had engine ignitor support; coldblade2000 just uploaded a patch, however; check the end of the RO thread (or this thread).

At this point, if none of the engine configs that are available are to your taste: make your own. It's not hard; in the second post in RF I link the tool I use to make configs; it's not that hard to use and has extensive documentation. Then you'll have exactly the configs you want.

====

Re: RFv6, EI: I'm investigating the issue as soon as I get home.

It's not what my taste is, its what engines I have to work with. I would rather use engines that are realistic then engines that are fun. I've been using your config files for about a week and I've been enjoying them, but I wanted to use the realengines cfg which were LACKING engine ignition support.

I've even deleted the NASA engines pack because those rockets are just plain silly.

[coldblade2000]

Remember most of the research was done in one night after you got me to lay off my ass. It probably has an uncountable amount of innacuracies.

[Kitspace]

Hello

I have a problem with the mod.

I have my engine state set as invalid all the time with any engine and the mod does not seem to affect the engine behaviour at all.

What can the problem be?

Also, how can I edit the engine properties as I have many of my solid engines with their fuel flow requirement enabled, and some engines which I would like to be pressure fed?

Thank you!

[Tortoise]

Will support for this mod be extended to 0.24?

[HoneyFox]

Will support for this mod be extended to 0.24?

Yes. I'm still working on this mod, although the pace is much slower than before.

[HoneyFox]

Hello

I have a problem with the mod.

I have my engine state set as invalid all the time with any engine and the mod does not seem to affect the engine behaviour at all.

What can the problem be?

Also, how can I edit the engine properties as I have many of my solid engines with their fuel flow requirement enabled, and some engines which I would like to be pressure fed?

Thank you!

For the invalid state issue, swamp_ig is working on a fix of RealFuels for this. And it should have been done. You might check the RealFuels thread and see if it's updated.

For the engine property editing, you can follow other engine's ignitor setting and make proper adjustment as you want.

Why do you have fuel flow requirement for solid fuel boosters? I don't think that's necessary.

To make an engine pressure-fed, just add these into the ignitor module:

	useUllageSimulation = true
	isPressureFed = true

[Kitspace]

The Real Fuel fix in its thread? At least I can not see it there...

Of course I do not want my solid boosters to have fuel flow requirement but they all seem to have it after the mod installation for some reason.

[Kitspace]

If an engine has got its ullage simulation disabled what sort of fuel feeding does it mean in the reality?

What is the pressure feeding property for? At the time of writing the previous post I thought that it would mean some cryogenic fuel that boils constantly and pressurizes the tank on its own without any other resource like nitrogen pumped in. But now I have some doubts about it.

If I use the Real Fuels mod and would like to feed the engine with a self ignition hyperbolic mixture can I completely disable the electric and chemical igniters completely? In this case are the igniters used if they are not disabled and will the engine start after they have depleted?

Do the real world engines have the external chemical ignition systems like the ignition fluid and such resources from the mod?

[HoneyFox]

If an engine has got its ullage simulation disabled what sort of fuel feeding does it mean in the reality?

What is the pressure feeding property for? At the time of writing the previous post I thought that it would mean some cryogenic fuel that boils constantly and pressurizes the tank on its own without any other resource like nitrogen pumped in. But now I have some doubts about it.

If I use the Real Fuels mod and would like to feed the engine with a self ignition hyperbolic mixture can I completely disable the electric and chemical igniters completely? In this case are the igniters used if they are not disabled and will the engine start after they have depleted?

Do the real world engines have the external chemical ignition systems like the ignition fluid and such resources from the mod?

If ullage simulation is disabled, it means nothing in reality but is like those engines in stock KSP, which can ignite no matter if the fuel is settled down/pressurized or not.

Pressure-fed cycle is one of these cycles used by liquid fuel engines, it utilizes high-pressure gas to push propellants into the engine, cryogenic fuel boil-off is one of the way to pressurize the tank as well AFAIK.

In RL you will always need electricity for engine's control system.

If you want an engine that uses hypergolic fuel, you *might* also need chemical "igniters" if your engine is not pressure-fed (these "igniters" should actually be named "starters" because they do not ignite anything in combustion chamber but generate gas to start the fuel pump).

If your engine is pressure-fed, you can then get rid of chemical "igniters", but you will need pressurized fuel tanks for the engine.

The ignitor count limitation is a separate mechanism to limit engine ignitions (other than resource-related limitation).

For hypergolic fueled engine, you can set a pretty big number for it (like 20 or 50 or even more than 100) or just set it to infinite.

[coldblade2000]

Wait, so you can pressurize with the boil off? Is it possible in game or just something that happens in real time?

[HoneyFox]

Wait, so you can pressurize with the boil off? Is it possible in game or just something that happens in real time?

No you can't do that in game because i remember that i excluded those cryogenic fuels when I was adding (pressurize) tag to all the resources, unless I made a mistake.

and in RL the pressurization is actually a bit different thing, lots of fuel tanks are pressurized or the combustion chamber's high pressure will stop the fuel from flowing into it (even if we have the fuel pump).

Pressurized tank in EI is more closer to "bladder tank".

[Sirine]

[0.23.5]?

Please add in config for S3 KS-25x4 Engine Cluster, Kerbodyne KR-2L Advance Engine, and LFB KR-1x2.

And the ignitor Toolsbox, Please make it usable without KAS. (Or stated that it required KAS to work).

Thanks! Thumb-up for a good mod.

[HoneyFox]

[0.23.5]?

Please add in config for S3 KS-25x4 Engine Cluster, Kerbodyne KR-2L Advance Engine, and LFB KR-1x2.

And the ignitor Toolsbox, Please make it usable without KAS. (Or stated that it required KAS to work).

Thanks! Thumb-up for a good mod.

I will add that in the next release, or perhaps I can upload an additional config file?

OP has just been updated to note people to have KAS and ModuleManager installed before trying to use the plugin.

[NathanKell]

Well, KAS isn't a hard dependency, surely? I mean, I've been using EI fine without it since the start...

[HoneyFox]

Well, KAS isn't a hard dependency, surely? I mean, I've been using EI fine without it since the start...

It's not. but if you want to use the ignitor toolbox, you'll need it.

[coldblade2000]

BTW, your pictures were removed