Constellation Space Program - Three Part Challenge

Death Engineering · October 18, 2013

I wonder if the effort for science points in sandbox is saved in the persistent file somewhere.. ?

Death Engineering · October 18, 2013

Konstellation Space Program Update

The first two steps to a Munar Outpost have been made. The Altair Outpost Variant landed in shallow crater near the equator on a robotic launch. Shortly after, an Altair Lander on Ares V/EDS and crew launch on Orion/Ares I performed a crewed landing less than 30m from the Munar outpost.

After having a look about, three of the four landing crew boarded the ascent stage. The fourth kerbal remained at the outpost to watch the temperature gauge. Having completed a Munar docking at 150km with the CM, the crew transferred to the CM and successfully returned to Kerbin.

Looking towards Duna, another Ares V launched an Orion 5 on an EDS bound for Duna. The Duna burn went well and the mission will fly within 5000 km of Duna in 62 days.

capi3101 · October 18, 2013

Looking at what some folks are reporting for science on missions to Duna, I think my initial 20-point suggestion is going to be a touch low given how the rest of the challenge is scored. Like by an order of magnitude. Possibly two. New suggestion: +1 challenge point per 500 science points collected.

More accomplishments today: 12 spacewalks in one night...and I proved the Thanatos could launch a Block I Scorpio without using EDS fuel.

PREVIOUS SCORES: Design 33, Mission 7

NEW POINTS CLAIMED: Design +1 (34), Mission +3 (10)

Crew Launch Vehicle (Thanatos 7): +0 pts

Can carry Orion Block 2 to low orbit without using any fuel from the Orion service module (+2)

Heavy Cargo Lift Vehicle (Thanatos Heavy 7): +1 pts.

Can carry the Earth Departure Stage (EDS) and Orion BLock 1 to low orbit without using any fuel from the EDS (+1)

Munar/Dunar Lander (Katapugon 7 Series): +0 pts

Hardware designed, building pending, no accomplishments achieved to date.

Crew Vehicle (Scorpio 7) +0 pts

All accomplishments achieved.

R&D: +5 pts

Perform a LKO test of an Altair Munar lander. With at least one Kerbal on board, fly an Altair Munar lander at least 100km away from the Orion spacecraft. Dispose of the descent stage, then fly the ascent stage back to the Orion. Transfer the crew to the Orion then robotically control the ascent stage into a re-entry orbit (+3)

Perform the above Altair test in Munar orbit using EOR mission (+1)

Using an un-Kerballed Duna lander and an EDS on Ares V, perform a high-speed re-entry from at least 15,000km Ap. (+2)

Launch an un-Kerballed Duna lander on Ares V into low orbit. Perform an orbital test and descent of the lander (crewed or uncrewed) (+3)

Use an Ares I in at least one Munar mission (flyby, orbital or landing) (+1)

Use an Ares I in at least one Duna mission (flyby or landing) (+1)

Use an Ares V in at least one Munar mission (orbital or landing) (+2)

Use an Ares V in at least one Duna mission (flyby or landing) (+2)

Space Station - Scorpio/Thanatos: +3 pts

Launch an Orion to the orbiting space station with at least 4 crew. Perform a crew exchange and return four Kerbals from the space station to Kerbin using the Orion. (+2)

Return at least one Kerbal from the space station to Kerbin in an Orion which was docked robotically. This is a "liferaft" scenario intended to use the Orion left at the space station in "Research and Development" above. (+1)

Mun - Scorpio/Thantatos/Thantatos Heavy/Katapugon: +0 pts

Land an un-Kerballed Altair on the Mun without the use of an Orion spacecraft (EDS and Altair only launched from Ares V) (+2)

Demonstrate that your Altair can, on its own, brake the Orion and Altair into Mun orbit and perform a polar landing (+2)

Land at least 4 Kerbals in an Altair on the Mun within 1km of either above Altair (+3)

Return four Kerbals from a Munar landing to Kerbin (+2)

Munar Outpost: Using at least one crewed Altair lander, an Outpost Variant and a pressurized rover set up a Munar Outpost. The Outpost Variant can join a crewed Altair already on the Mun or can be part of a separate Altair/Outpost Variant mission to another location. The Altair and Outpost Variant need to be within 100m of each other. (+5)

No other mission objectives completed to date.

Bioman222 · October 18, 2013

Did it because I needed to make a new Ares for .22.

Points: 9

Edited October 18, 2013 by Bioman222

Death Engineering · October 18, 2013

I looked briefly at science in sandpit but I did not see any points or ways of reporting what science was done on a mission. If there is, I need to look again. So, for now, I'll leave the "science" points in this challenge will remain unchanged.

That lifter is a monster.. I bet you could carry my Ares V on it!

Looking good! The pic off the side of the SRB gives a great realistic look.

BlazeFallow · October 19, 2013

Gosh darn it Death, stop making challenges that are so good I can't not do them.

Don't actually stop though, you've given me more reason to play than even SCIENCE.

Suffice to say, I will be joining in this challenge. Time to start designing designs....

Death Engineering · October 19, 2013

Wait... :wink: Cooking up something now, but won't be ready for at least 2 weeks.

Death Engineering · October 19, 2013

Konstellation Space Program Update

Now that a Munar Outpost has been established, proving the Orion spacecraft for deep space missions, a crew of 5 kerbals were launched on a flyby mission to Duna. The crew were launched on an Ares V/EDS with the Orion capsule in a single launch and passed within 5000km of Duna. The crew took a good look at the frozen icecap then ditched the EDS stage before using the Orion SM engine to get into a Kerbin encounter. After their 130 day mission, the crew returned safely to Kerbin. The valuable data acquired on this mission will help finalize the design of the Duna Lander.

In other news, the Munar rover design is almost ready for delivery to the Munar Outpost. This last launch to this outpost will complete the first outpost mission objectives. The next outpost will be delivered to the Mun's large crater at it's northern pole.

Duna Orion Flyby

Edited October 19, 2013 by Death Engineering

Death Engineering · October 22, 2013

Konstellation Space Program Update

Having successfully completed a Duna flyby mission and taking lots of good photos for the design team, the Altair Duna Variant and Duna Return Vehicle were completed then sent on high Kerbin orbital tests. Both landers were sent out past 15000 km before heading towards a high speed re-entry on Kerbin. Both vehicles performed as expected and no changes are needed before beginning the Duna stage of the Konstellation space program.

In Munar news, a crew exchange vehicle was launched uncrewed to the first outpost. This variant of the Altair uses the same ascent stage as the main Altair lander but does not have any crew quarters on the descent stage and will be used as a backup ascent vehicle for the next crew coming to the outpost. Also, an Altair Outpost Variant with two rovers was landed on the Mun's south pole. This will soon be joined by an Altair lander with four crew.

capi3101 · October 22, 2013

Still in this - I've just been getting over the shininess of 0.22 and will be back to work soon. Munar/Dunar habitat was designed yesterday; due to the mass of the rovers, the habitat will be as massive as the lander despite the lack of an ascent stage.

Death Engineering · October 22, 2013

Good to hear! Career mode has not gripped me, for some reason. I'm hoping Squad or a modder will make science relevant in sandbox. Until then, or until science in career makes sense, its sandpit for me.

capi3101 · October 23, 2013

So.......I need to ask about the notion of a "Cargo Altair". I was planning on putting the pressurized rovers with the habitat, but had problems finding a good mounting point (the habitat follows the same design as the two-stage lander, which utilizes the same hex symmetry as the Scorpio Crew Module, and its actually fairly compact lengthwise). I did ultimately get them attached, but I'm looking at it and saying to myself "there's no way in hell that thing is going to survive a launch". Even if it does, the part count is hellacious at this point.

Main question: does the Cargo Altair have to at least resemble the other Altair variants? Or could I just re-utilize the Storax Sedan idea from the Mars Challenge (i.e. dangle two rovers off the sides of a fuel canister)?

So far the challenge of career mode is to do the stuff with smaller parts that you're used to doing with the bigger parts. I unlocked enough stuff to recreate my first demo Mun lander just last night. Made about 500 science in the process. Got my eyes on unlocking the Mk1 Lander Can next...

Death Engineering · October 23, 2013

I haven't found a lot of data on how the Altair Cargo variant would deliver and deploy a sizable (pressurized) rover, but I suspect it would have taken the form of a top-mounted payload with a deployable ramp to the surface. This is not really doable here. For the intent of the challenge, method of deliver of the rover is open to interpretation. Feel free to deliver the rover(s) with any lander design.

For my program, I've used the same ascent stage for both 4-crew landers and similar designs for the descent stage on all three versions of the Altair, but to use the same descent/landing stage for all three isn't really practical since the mass of each is likely to be vastly different. The three versions of the LM I've developed are: typical LM style with descent stage that has no other purpose than landing; LM with four pressurized seats in the descent stage that serves as a reusable base after the landing crew has left, outpost version that substitutes more pressurized seats and two rovers for an ascent stage.

Another useful reference I've come across: http://astronautical.org/sites/default/files/vonbraun/2008/Von_Braun_Symposium_2008-10-21_2d_Dorris.pdf

capi3101 · October 23, 2013

Okay. I was going to ask about the outpost version, if it was going to be okay for it to lack an ascent stage; as that's what you're doing and it's your challenge, I'll assume I'm good.

Now to build something for that nine-tonne monstrosity of a rover I've built.

No, I'm not kidding (and the real kicker is that it only seats two).

Death Engineering · October 23, 2013

Now that the U.S. government has turned on the NASA web resources, I've seen a version of the Outpost Variant that does include an ascent stage. However, there is this image which clearly does not have an ascent stage:

So, I've made a very small tweak to the challenge parameters for the outpost version to include option for ascent stage. No points difference for either:

Outpost Variant: Develop a version of the Altair that can land robotically and has enough room for 1.5 times your Altair landing crew size (round up). Eg. If your Altair lander seats 4, the Outpost Variant should have pressurized seats for 6. If your Altair lander seats 5, your Outpost Variant should seat 8. The Outpost Variant can have, but does not require, the ability to return from Munar surface. (+2)

Edited October 23, 2013 by Death Engineering

Death Engineering · October 24, 2013

Konstellation Space Program Update

After doing remote checks of the Altair Oupost Variant and the rovers which were recently delivered to the Mun's south pole, four crew aboard an Orion 5 docked with an Altair lander in a Kerbin polar orbit. The crew successfully landed their Altair in the crater on the Mun's south pole, 40m from the Outpost variant. The crew checked out the new pressurized rovers and started looking for places where the crater wall isn't too steep to climb, commencing the south pole exploration program.

In Duna news, the Duna Return Vehicle is ready and will be leaving for Duna soon. The crew will depart several days later using an Orion 5 and Altair Duna Lander and will arrive at Duna several weeks after the return vehicle has landed, giving the crew enough time to decide whether a Duna landing mission will be possible. If the Duna Return Vehicle checks out after landing, the crew will alter their course from a Duna flyby to a landing.

In the next update, the Mun program will be expanded in both outpost locations to include backup return vehicles and rovers to the first outpost location. Also, a new space telescope will be launched to Kerbol synchronous orbit. But the biggest news will be the launches of the first crewed Duna landing mission using the Duna Altair Oupost and Duna Return Vehicle.

Bioman222 · October 27, 2013

BSMC got their Ares V tested and running. Expect Mun mission soon.

Points: 8 (in this mission)

Edited October 27, 2013 by Bioman222

Death Engineering · October 27, 2013

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to seeing more.

capi3101 · October 28, 2013

Alright - here's the latest from Crapsack Skunkworks: introducing the Katapugon 7 MÃƒÂ¼nar/Dunar combination lander. Ship's intended to go both MÃƒÂ¼n and Duna, so I'm claiming points for both here.

Despite all the screenshots I took, I never did get one of the Gravioli detector on the descent stage, so I won't claim the science points just yet.

Anyway, part 4 of my entry in this challenge:

The scoring rules have changed for the Duna lander - the one I've got highlighted in orange below is in question. Did this set of tests do enough to satisfy at least an orbital test of the lander? I'm assuming it was insufficient to prove a landing, so I'm not claiming the points right now.

PREVIOUS SCORES: Design 34, Mission 10

NEW POINTS CLAIMED: Design +25 (59), Mission +5 (15)

All Points Previously Achieved in the Following Categories:

Heavy Cargo Lift Vehicle (Thanatos Heavy 7)

Crew Vehicle (Scorpio 7)

Space Station - Scorpio/Thanatos

Crew Launch Vehicle (Thanatos 7): +2 pts

Can carry Orion Block 2 to low orbit without using any fuel from the Orion service module (+2)

Munar Lander (Katapugon 7 Series): +12 pts

Supports 4 crew (+4)

Each crew over 4, up to 6 crew maximum (+1 each; max +2)

Can perform un-Kerballed landings without the use of an Orion spacecraft (Altair and EDS launched on Ares V) (+1)

Can perform Munar orbit insertion from Kerbin-Mun trajectory for both an Altair and and Orion capsule (either Block I or II) without using any Orion fuel (+2)

2 stage lander with separate ascent stage (descent stage stays on Munar surface) (+2)

Rover bonus: Can deploy at least one rover with seats for at least half (round up) of the lander crew (+3)

Addition rover: Can deploy a second rover (same or different than first rover) (+1)

Pressurized rover: Develop a rover that can seat at least two crew in a pressurized pod. This rover can be delivered with a crewed or uncrewed Altair lander, an Outpost Variant lander or a specialized Cargo Altair that brings only the rover (+2)

Outpost Variant: Develop a version of the Altair that can land robotically and has enough room for 1.5 times your Altair landing crew size (round up). Eg. If your Altair lander seats 4, the Outpost Variant should have pressurized seats for 6. If your Altair lander seats 5, your Outpost Variant should seat 8. The Outpost Variant can have, but does not require, the ability to return from Munar surface. (+2)

Duna Lander (Katapugon 7 Series): +11 pts.

Lander supports 4 crew (+4)

Kerbin Return Vehicle capable of Kerbin return with either direct ascent to Kerbin or Duna Orbit Rendezvous with Kerbin return stage (+3)

Rover bonus: Bring at least one rover with seats for at least half (round up) of the lander crew (+3)

Addition rover: Bring a second rover (same or different than first rover) (+1)

Develop a rover that can seat at least two crew in a pressurized pod. This rover can be delivered with either the Kerbin Return Vehicle or the Duna lander (+2)

Outpost Variant: Develop the Duna lander to remain on Duna as a permanent outpost. The Duna landing mission should include pressurized seats for 1.5 times your crew size (round up). Eg. If your Duna lander seats 4, the Outpost Variant should have pressurized seats for 6. If your Duna lander seats 5, your Outpost Variant should seat 8 (+2)

R&D: +5 pts (+8?)