A question about retrieval of science data

[katateochi]

From what I've seen about the upcoming science there are two ways to get data back home, by transmitting it or by returning the command pod back home.

Returning home with the data yields more points but what happens if you fail to get your command pod home (and also can't transmit)? Re-doing an experiment in the same place yields less points (which makes perfect sense), but does that apply if you didn't get the results home the first time?

Could you do an experiment worth say 10 points, fail to get it home and then run another mission to the same place and still get those 10 points (assuming you got it back this time)? Or does this add a stronger imperative to ensuring a safe return?

I guess another way of asking this is at what point is the experiment considered done; after the actual experiment or after the results are returned home.

Edited October 15, 2013 by katateochi

[KasperVld]

If I recall correctly, HarvesteR stated that science would not be lost if you lose experiment data, so there would be no penalty.

[Speijker]

That's indeed a good question, it'd be a shame to find you lost science due to some unforeseen accident (like forgetting to pack parachutes).

Hope you don't mind if I add a similar question to your thread: what if you do science with a rover detached from your lander (50m/s Mün Science is the best Science!), but the Kerbals don't take the rover back to Kerbin, but use the lander (which is then a seperate craft)?

[katateochi]

If I recall correctly, HarvesteR stated that science would not be lost if you lose experiment data, so there would be no penalty.

ah cool, thanks! It does make the most sense that way.

[katateochi]

That's indeed a good question, it'd be a shame to find you lost science due to some unforeseen accident (like forgetting to pack parachutes).

Hope you don't mind if I add a similar question to your thread: what if you do science with a rover detached from your lander (50m/s Mün Science is the best Science!), but the Kerbals don't take the rover back to Kerbin, but use the lander (which is then a seperate craft)?

ah, that's also a good Q. Can you transfer science data between command pods like as if it was a resource?

[RSwordsman]

Reason to me would dictate that you don't actually score points/science until your information is received by the KSC. So if for any reason your pod doesn't make it home and never transmitted remotely, the experiment may as well never have happened.

[i.be.Reese]

ah, that's also a good Q. Can you transfer science data between command pods like as if it was a resource?

It depends on the type of science. I think I remember reading that crew/EVA reports and samples can be transferred between vehicles, I'm not sure about experiments from the science parts though.

My Question is: If I do some science in orbit worth say 10pts, transmit it home (with the transition penalty) for 6pts, then land safely am I awarded the missing 4pts on recovery?

[FlowerChild]

My Question is: If I do some science in orbit worth say 10pts, transmit it home (with the transition penalty) for 6pts, then land safely am I awarded the missing 4pts on recovery?

I've been wondering that myself. Everything I've seen so far seems to indicate you do one or the other, but transmitting in case you don't make it home seems like a very reasonable thing to do. Would be rather odd if you were effectively penalized for doing so by losing the science point difference.

[BahamutoD]

I think it would be nice if you were rewarded for getting it right the first time, so as you gain experience and learn to plan missions better, you get a better outcome.

[CapnMorgan18]

These are my hopes for the implementation of science retrieval:

Allow for both transmission of data and retrieval of same data. (IE - Land a probe on Duna take soil samples transmit data back to KSC. Later a manned flight can be sent to retrieve samples for remainder of science points)

Allow for continuous science to be done on a Space Station, scientific results transferred to manned or unmanned modules and de-orbited back to KSC.

[magnemoe]

That's indeed a good question, it'd be a shame to find you lost science due to some unforeseen accident (like forgetting to pack parachutes).

Hope you don't mind if I add a similar question to your thread: what if you do science with a rover detached from your lander (50m/s Mün Science is the best Science!), but the Kerbals don't take the rover back to Kerbin, but use the lander (which is then a seperate craft)?

If it was EVA reports or soil samples. they follow the kerbal. An command module report does not so the rover will have to radio it back.

Does anybody have more info on how the transmission loss work. One thing is clear to me: transmitting uses plenty of power, if you don't have enough power to send it all back you just get an fraction. However is it other losses based on distance or data size?

[Godot]

It depends on the type of science. I think I remember reading that crew/EVA reports and samples can be transferred between vehicles, I'm not sure about experiments from the science parts though.

My Question is: If I do some science in orbit worth say 10pts, transmit it home (with the transition penalty) for 6pts, then land safely am I awarded the missing 4pts on recovery?

AFAIK if any data for an experiment gets transmitted to KSP, the memory block for this experiment gets deleted from your spaceships RAM.

This sounds to me like you don´t get back any of the points you "lost"/didn´t get rewarded due to transmitting the data.

(would also make sense from a game design standpoint ... with this in place you will be forced to decide to either keep the data until return (risky) or immediately trnsmit it (loss of points) whereas in the other case (when you get back all "lost" data upon return), there would be no decision ... you would just transmit all data)

[magnemoe]

AFAIK if any data for an experiment gets transmitted to KSP, the memory block for this experiment gets deleted from your spaceships RAM.

This sounds to me like you don´t get back any of the points you "lost"/didn´t get rewarded due to transmitting the data.

(would also make sense from a game design standpoint ... with this in place you will be forced to decide to either keep the data until return (risky) or immediately trnsmit it (loss of points) whereas in the other case (when you get back all "lost" data upon return), there would be no decision ... you would just transmit all data)

Yes, if you transmit you free the log (ram) and can do more science.

Here is how I guess the system work under the hood: various areas both in space and on different bodies has an science "resource" for different types of experiments.

Either an number or an counter and multiplier so Moho gives more points than launchpad and you get lower score for repeated experiments, this resource also contains the text for the experiment.

Doing an experiment stores the value and reference in kerbal or module.

Now the easiest way is to simply decrease the counter and just add it back if the ship is destroyed or removed before returning data.

If the data is returned either by landing and recovery or radio you get the science score, if you radio them back you can do more experiments.

Now if you discard data I guess / hope they are also restored so you can do the experiment later.

Allowing you to both radio the report and having the kerbal report back is realistic however ground samples and experiments in orbit is usually either set up to do the analyze on site or bring the sample back. analyze on site gives less information than an sample in an huge lab.

[FlowerChild]

(would also make sense from a game design standpoint ... with this in place you will be forced to decide to either keep the data until return (risky) or immediately trnsmit it (loss of points) whereas in the other case (when you get back all "lost" data upon return), there would be no decision ... you would just transmit all data)

No, it doesn't really make sense from a design standpoint. It may create the desired gameplay results, but does so in an artificial and overly gamey manner that acts counter to what one would expect and which breaks suspension of disbelief.