Modular Fuel System Continued v3.3 (OBSOLETE)

[p1t1o]

Cheers for the explanation on tech levels

Just a real quick note, the thrustVectorTransformName in the RealFuels B9 config for the low-profile Atlas engine is slightly wrong, at least with B94c.

Is: thrustTransform

Needs to be: thrust_transform

[cardajowol]

hmm k, well to me the engines in this game... why oh why do the higher engines always have to be a pair or 4 or 3 engines. And talk about no good enough engines in the mid range.. its hard to find a decent sized engine that I can use that isn't to over the top or doesn't have enough TtoW. I'd like small engines for probes etc and landers, good enough low range like the 200-300 range, then a few decent engines around 500-700 range and more top line ranged ones around the 1000+ end. And I'm talking about single engines.. if I need 4 or 2-3 engines I can par them together... Rant over..

[Hades]

I'm having problems with my engines overheating at full thrust. It's most prominent on the 3 and 5m engines(bearcat from nova and griffon from kw). Is that supposed to happen?

[p3asant]

I'm having trouble adding new engines to this. I have this code.

@PART[F1 RocketMotor]:Final //wwwuzzz

{

//@title = Dux-TL4

@mass = 8.4

@maxTemp = 3600

@description = test

@MODULE[ModuleEngines]

{

@maxThrust = 6773

@heatProduction = 500

@atmosphereCurve

{

@key,0 = 0 315

@key,1 = 1 263

}

@PROPELLANT[LiquidFuel]

{

@name = LiquidFuel

@ratio = 0.39

}

@PROPELLANT[Oxidizer]

{

@name = LiquidOxygen

@ratio = 0.61

}

}

@MODULE[ModuleGimbal]

{

@gimbalRange = 0.5

}

MODULE

{

name = ModuleEngineConfigs

techLevel = 4

origTechLevel = 4

engineType = L

origMass = 8.4

configuration = LiquidFuel+LiquidOxygen

modded = false

CONFIG

{

name = LiquidFuel+LiquidOxygen

maxThrust = 6773

heatProduction = 500

PROPELLANT

{

name = LiquidFuel

ratio = 0.39

DrawGauge = True

}

PROPELLANT

{

name = LiquidOxygen

ratio = 0.61

}

atmosphereCurve

{

key = 0 315

key = 1 263

}

IspSL = 1.01

IspV = 1.01

}

CONFIG

{

name = LiquidH2+LiquidOxygen

maxThrust = 3375

heatProduction = 368

PROPELLANT

{

name = LiquidH2

ratio = 0.73

DrawGauge = True

}

PROPELLANT

{

name = LiquidOxygen

ratio = 0.27

}

atmosphereCurve

{

key = 0 420

key = 1 368

}

IspSL = 1.313

IspV = 1.313

}

}

}

added to the engines.cfg, yet nothing happens. Where do i need to put this to make it work?

Also, how would the stretchable srb's added with their changing thrusts and such?

[NathanKell]

Heat is being dealt with.

p3asant, that config looks fine. You can just make a new cfg anywhere in gamedata and put that in it and it should be applied...check the log for details if it's not. Oh, maybe because the partname has a space? KSP no like. Try removing the space from the part's name line in the part cfg, and from your reference to it above.

MFT has support StretchySRB from day one. I need to release an updated StretchySRB with ModuleEngineConfigs in it, though; the public release of StretchySRB may not be up to date.

[Starwaster]

p3asant, that part name has a space in it. Module Manager cannot handle spaces. Or to be more precise there's a problem passing the URI on to KSP.

It should probably be considered a bug that KSP allows spaces at all. Most likely it's being escaped internally. I've tried myself to figure out a way to use escape characters in MM config files but I'm not sure KSP actually uses any known escape schemes.

In short, the problem is the author's / modder's responsibility but if you want to make it work on your end then you should rename the part. Change the spaces to .

i.e. do this in the part's configuration file:

name = F1.RocketMotor

Then be sure to use that in your ModuleManager configuration file that you quoted above.

Warning: I think that what I'm telling you to do will NOT break existing save files because IIRC spaces are renamed to . in the save files anyway.

I am not on my KSP playing machine as it is out of action indefinitely. I'm currently on a MacBook and am not able to play KSP on it at this time. (because I'm not accustomed to Macs and I broke my KSP horribly when I tried copying mods into the GameData file because apparently Macs like to replace the entire contents of the folder you're trying to paste into instead of merging? I'm not actually sure, all I know is I can't test that out but it should work ok. Backup your persistence.sfs and quicksave.sfs files just in case.)

Also be warned that if the author ever updates that mod that your part file changes will be overwritten so you really want to bug them to rename the part without spaces.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Starwaster
Added missing paren out of irrational fear that my message wouldn't compile

[p3asant]

Thanks, i changed the part name from f1 rocketmotor to f1_rocketmotor and it worked fine.

Strangely i thought the game would automatically do this..

Also nathankell, that's what i meant about the stretch-srb's, their dry mass is somewhat high (15 ton dry at 100ton total).

Actually it should be around 15% ratio. Shuttle booster was 591 t and dry 91 t so makes it about 15%.

Edited October 26, 2013 by p3asant

[iVG]

How can I change fuels and add insulation to fuel tanks ?

[NathanKell]

Change fuels how? Change an engine's fuel mode, or change what a tank holds?

Either way, go into action editor in the VAB and select the engine or tank respectively.

For insulation, use tanks that say they are Cryogenic. The Jumbo 64 is, for example.

p3asant: that's actually right in line with current large solid rockets. The plan to redesign the Shuttle SRB had a dry ratio of 14.9%

[Starwaster]

How can I change fuels and add insulation to fuel tanks ?

insulation could be simulated by adding extra mass and lowering the fuel loss value. (realistically it shouldn't be lowered by very much because there's only so much that can be done with insulation alone)

[NathanKell]

And also changing the loss rate. Otherwise it's useless. :]

[Starwaster]

And also changing the loss rate. Otherwise it's useless. :]

lolwhut? I thought I said that

btw I've a thought for a new heat dissipation part. I dunno how much real need there is for it just thought I'd throw this out there. Using the heat pump module it would have only conductivity set so it would function like a heat pipe. It would then have to have radiators attached to it. Just something I was thinking about because I didn't like the look of my fuel tanks with these things sticking out. Not even zzz's attractive radiators. So I was thinking of one of my ship designs using the tri-hex struts it would look better if the radiators were out on the strut near the engine. Then I thought about putting the module on the strut with just the conductivity set.

I never got to try it because my PC went down and I'm still not fully up and running with ksp

Edit: btw, the thing about the periods was wrong, sorry. Wouldn't work.

[NathanKell]

Starwaster: Apologies, you did. I must have not seen it, sorry. :\

That sounds pretty cool as a new part, actually! My sympathies on your pc woes...

[Carzum]

So what's going on with the resizing of the KW 1m engines to 0.5m engines? I can't seem to find any good 1m engines as OMS engines for my shuttle now. They're either 0.5m or only burn LH2 and LOX. Is this intentional? Also the 2m Griffon 8D still has a ridiculously high thrust for its size.

[Starwaster]

Starwaster: Apologies, you did. I must have not seen it, sorry. :\

That sounds pretty cool as a new part, actually! My sympathies on your pc woes...

Well I'm pretty sure the drive in question is NOT the one with my KSP stuff - it's a 6 year old 250 GB that's 3 years out of warranty so I figure I've got some decent use out of it. I would have liked to see it last longer but whatever. There's probably some movies on there that I will be sad to lose. We'll see if I'm able to recover them. That's not going to happen until I have a new hard drive. I thought about just reinstalling Windows to one of the other two drives but after pricing out some drives on Amazon I'm getting a 1 TB Black Caviar. I'll do without the PC until it gets here.

So what's going on with the resizing of the KW 1m engines to 0.5m engines? I can't seem to find any good 1m engines as OMS engines for my shuttle now. They're either 0.5m or only burn LH2 and LOX. Is this intentional? Also the 2m Griffon 8D still has a ridiculously high thrust for its size.

Nathan has said that he's only designated most engines as having limited fuel options because he doesn't think it should be that easy to switch fuels. If I can offer my opinion on that subject (as if I've ever asked ) we should instead look on reconfiguring engines as total re-designs. (hint-hint-hint)

Looking at engines.cfg it does seem as though a lot of engines are completely re-scaled to smaller sizes.... so I'm guessing that is deliberate to give KW options to the smallest tanks?

Can I suggest as an alternative however (@Nathan), defining new parts that use those models scaled down? You can do that even in the same engines.cfg file. Look at my config file and you'll see I do that to add new tanks. There's like 6 PART{} nodes defined in there.

[sarbian]

As promised, here is a build of MechJeb that shows Sea Level TWR (and has its figures corrected for all other regimes too). TWR and Max TWR show vacuum TWR; SLT shows sea level TWR. Atmo time shows time at sea level, and it and vacuum time are both correct (i.e. identical).

This is now integrated in the last dev version on MJ2.

[NathanKell]

Great! Thanks! I'll pull the post/link then.

[Titan Space Agency]

I have found a bug that involves (i cant spell sorry) septrons. If you have 3 or more septrons, it will only show 2 icons untill you launch. I cnat put in any pics though, sorry.

[Starwaster]

I have found a bug that involves (i cant spell sorry) septrons. If you have 3 or more septrons, it will only show 2 icons untill you launch. I cnat put in any pics though, sorry.

That's a stock bug in .22. Surprised you've never seen it before now.

also it's not just sepratrons, I have seen it show up for boosters tha I've placed symmetrically. If you double click the staging box on its top bar it sometimes corrects.

edit #2: that's probably it right there, anything placed symmetrically could trigger it.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Starwaster

[NathanKell]

All right, I gave in. Three versions available so all you have to do is download the one you want and go. You can get to any mode from any download of course (one just has an unzipped RF.zip, and one has an unzipped RF.zip with useRealisticMass = true already set...but I am to please). Links in OP.

v3 === \/

*Finally put back stock masses and thrusts (well, in 99.9% of cases) for all engines. Some had to be tweaked ever-so-slightly as they were balance-breakers.

*Changed the Isp and TWR curves slightly for the tech levels

*added heatMultiplier setting to RealSettings.cfg. Change it to change the global heat multiplier for all ModularEngines.

*Fixed more typos

*Added missing tanks

*Redid the tank masses again for Realistic Masses mode. It should roughly correspond to S-IC for kerolox, Shuttle External Tank for cryogenic hydrolox, and Titan II-1 for hypergolic. In each case a slight additional mass was taken into account to stand for additional stage mass like fairings and decouplers; if you have a fuel tank alone, you'll get a better fuel fraction than real life stages. Note that since engines masses in MFSC incorporate thrust plate mass, tank mass will also be lower.

*Added enhanced StretchyTanks compatibility. Things should scale better now. Requires newest version of NathanKell's StretchySRB patch (unzip on top of StretchyTanks).

[p3asant]

All right, I gave in. Three versions available so all you have to do is download the one you want and go. You can get to any mode from any download of course (one just has an unzipped RF.zip, and one has an unzipped RF.zip with useRealisticMass = true already set...but I am to please). Links in OP.

v3 === \/

*Finally put back stock masses and thrusts (well, in 99.9% of cases) for all engines. Some had to be tweaked ever-so-slightly as they were balance-breakers.

*Changed the Isp and TWR curves slightly for the tech levels

*added heatMultiplier setting to RealSettings.cfg. Change it to change the global heat multiplier for all ModularEngines.

*Fixed more typos

*Added missing tanks

*Redid the tank masses again for Realistic Masses mode. It should roughly correspond to S-IC for kerolox, Shuttle External Tank for cryogenic hydrolox, and Titan II-1 for hypergolic. In each case a slight additional mass was taken into account to stand for additional stage mass like fairings and decouplers; if you have a fuel tank alone, you'll get a better fuel fraction than real life stages. Note that since engines masses in MFSC incorporate thrust plate mass, tank mass will also be lower.

*Added enhanced StretchyTanks compatibility. Things should scale better now. Requires newest version of NathanKell's StretchySRB patch (unzip on top of StretchyTanks).

When moving to Launch Pad from VAB, all the stretchy configs switch to only one fuel. Cryogenics to Lox or H2 and non cryigenic ones to Lf.

It would be a pain in the ass to have two tanks for earch stage and having to count the ratios right.

Edit: Fixed by removing whole modular mod and reinstalling along with some other mods.

Edited October 29, 2013 by p3asant

[Filippe999]

is this compatible with v0.22?

[Starwaster]

Bug report: Still possible to add non-fillables to tanks.

There's two ways to do this:

1. Use an auto-configure button that lists that fuel if an engine is configured for it.
   
2. Launch clamps feed resources and they do not respect non-fillables.
   

[dimovski]

Hey... I'm curious, any plans on adjusting BobCats stuff with this? (well, okay, I don't see any reason why I wouldn't do it myself... that I'm doing atm anyway... but maybe there are atleast some parts which were supposed to be used with different fuels etc...?)

[NathanKell]

Yes, it's compatible with .22, although I still have to add the thermal fins to a technode.

Starwaster: thanks, will check. I take it you got KSP running again then?

(Unless, Knuth-style, that was just from reading source!)

dimovski: Good point. We can add them to the spreadsheet. Post what configs you have, if you're willing; that'll save a bunch of work.