Modular Fuel System Continued v3.3 (OBSOLETE)

[Aranthos]

Just restarted using this after being away from KSP for a bit, I've got a strange problem where engines show up on the action groups page with the fuel configuration looking like this:

http://puu.sh/5GHzq/2b3ec99be3.jpg

or this:

http://puu.sh/5GHPn/b9be66adf4.jpg

None of the fuel options actually do anything when clicked. Tanks seem to work fine, they detect the fuel type of engines underneath them without any worries and also change their contents as expected.

I've got quite a silly number of other mods loaded so I'd imagine it's probably an incompatibility. I was just wondering if anyone else has seen it and could save me need to go through them all. Being optimistic =D

[jrandom]

Odd, I see that exact same behavior with the pre-release of MFS v4, but v3 works fine for me.

[XanderTek]

Nathan, the Spherical Fuel Tanks mod no longer needs the special config file. The author changed the volumes and such to match with MFS's defaults.

[NathanKell]

Aranthos: Per Realism Overhaul's readme/OP, you need to delete GameData/ModularFuelTanks/RealFuels/Engines.cfg

You did download MFS RFRM, right? Realism Overhaul requires that.

XanderTek: yup, will fix.

[White Owl]

I think thats expected, when you are using real fuels you should change the fuel types via the action group menu. Just select the tank you want and choose away...C:

Thank you! I decided to try this mod out and ran into exactly the same issue as others: the tank tooltips say press "g" to change fuel.

Nathankell, I humbly suggest these tooltips need changed to direct users to the action groups.

[mys_721tx]

Does anything try to make this work together with a life support mod? It would be really handy to make a single service module with food, air, water, and fuels in one tank.

----

Edit:

I made a cfg file that works with the TAC life support, (and should work with ioncross since the latter one has only CO2 and O2.). However, this thing doesn't work very well with real fuel enabled, since there are too much columns.

Edited December 10, 2013 by mys_721tx

[NathanKell]

mys_721tx, there's a config of mine floating around the TAC LS thread. You might like that one.

White Owl: will do.

[mys_721tx]

mys_721tx, there's a config of mine floating around the TAC LS thread. You might like that one.

That will be great! Also, is it possible to make the configuration window scrollable or moving-around-able? The real fuel alone takes a lot of screen spaces.

[NathanKell]

mys_721tx: It already is scrollable. Make sure you have the latest release of MFS. The bar on the right of the MFS window scrolls up and down.

[mys_721tx]

NathanKell: Thanks! I was using a older version. With the new version everything works like a charm.

[BrickedKeyboard]

Nathan : I have an idea as to how you can fix the problem with resizing stretchy tanks and recalculating fuel masses.

Add 4 additional variables to each tanks to track what the tank is configured for. These variables come initialized to NULL or 0 when the tank is created. When the user clicks in the gui the button to create tanks of a specific size - such as "73% Liquid H2 27% Liquid Oxygen", set variables as such

Variable0 = "0.73" Variable 1 = "Liquid H2" Variable 2 = "0.27" Variable3 = "Liquid Oxygen".

Then, after every resizing operation, recompute the tank sizes based on this "forcing" setting. No more than 2 fuel types allowed with this method, but, that covers nearly every possibility anyway.

Or, fix the precision errors. I suppose that might be simpler.

[taniwha]

NotMyRealName: I've already removed the precision issues for Nathan (along with some other stuff I was helping him with). Should be in the next release.

That said, your idea has merits but stinks in one place: why limit it to 2 fuel types? It's actually trivially easy to make it support any number.

[Razorcane]

Nathan, I don't know if you're planning this feature, but I think it really should make it into the game. I would like to also customize the types of fuel that RCS uses, since they are basically rocket engines, but really weak ones. It would be nice to be able to change my RCS to use, say, N2O4/MMH along with an engine that does that, so that I don't have to have separate monopropellant tanks. Just a suggestion.

[NathanKell]

BrickedKeryboard: as taniwha said, rounding will be out, so that should fix things. Your idea doesn't work because it assumes that people only autoconfigure tanks. But the point of MFS is that it's modular; you can add some monopropellant, or Oxygen, or electriccharge, and then fill the remaining volume for your engine. That's why I have to check the _actual_ resource ratios.

Razorcane: I have a request in to Squad to allow bipropellant RCS. Until that time, RCS will only accept a single resource.

[jrandom]

A bit of a duplicate post to the one in StretchySRB, but this is where the question is appropriate, methinks. I'm trying to override the MFS RealFuels tech settings (RealSettings.cfg) so that all engine tech levels are available at 'start'. This, unfortunately, did not work:

@MFSSETTINGS[*]:Final
{
    @MFS_TECHLEVELS
    {
        @ENGINETYPE[*]
        {
            @TLTECH1 = start
            @TLTECH2 = start
            @TLTECH3 = start
            @TLTECH4 = start
            @TLTECH5 = start
            @TLTECH6 = start
            @TLTECH7 = start
        }

    }
}

I then tried giving the MFS_TECHLEVELS node in RealSettings.cfg 'name = default' so I could try this:

@MFSSETTINGS[*]:Final
{
    @MFS_TECHLEVELS[*]
    {
        @ENGINETYPE[*]
        {
            @TLTECH1 = start
            @TLTECH2 = start
            @TLTECH3 = start
            @TLTECH4 = start
            @TLTECH5 = start
            @TLTECH6 = start
            @TLTECH7 = start
        }

    }
}

That did not work either. Then I launched a few simple science missions and upgraded to General Rocketry and some tech levels became available, so it's definitely using the original RealSettings.cfg values and not my patched ones.

[NathanKell]

Can you do wildcards for non-root nodes? I didn't think so.

Try just doing

@MFSSETTINGS:Final
{
	@MFS_TECHLEVELS
	{
		@ENGINETYPE[S]
		{
			@TLTECH1 = start
			//etc
		}
		@ENGINETYPE[O]
		//etc
	}
}

Note that you can do @ for a root node with no []. I use it in MFS to add the RealFuels stuff. It may be that doing [*] will ignore nameless root nodes?

[jrandom]

It might have been the attempt to use the wildcard with ENGINETYPE... I'll give it a go and see if it works. Still have the StretchyTanks issue where if I remove the settings node via MM, the tanks appear at the right scale but cannot resize in any direction, and the texture appears permanently "squished" in the vertical direction.

Also, RealEngines.cfg starts by modifying an MFSSETTINGS node that is named:

@MFSSETTINGS[MFSSettings]
{
...
}

In your example above, it modifies:

@MFSSETTINGS:Final

I'm not sure I understand how that works.

Edited December 15, 2013 by jrandom

[SRFirefox]

Quite enjoying the mod, and I'm working on a full-scale Energia launcher right now to see if, hey, parallel stacks are actually possible with this. All signs are pointing toward 'maybe.' A thought popped into my head though, and I was wondering if it was possible to make gimbal range modifiable within the engine MFS screens. I could certainly use more than a degree and a half of gimballing range, especially for an asymmetric design like the Energia.

[NathanKell]

jrandom: Oh heck, I misremembered. Sorry, you're quite right. Blush.

SRFirefox: cool! I don't see why that couldn't be added, though it has to go a bit down the ways in the queue.

[jrandom]

Here's something that would be handy: A slider that lets you change the total amount of fuel in a tank while retaining that fuel's proportions. Say I wanted to use the service module tank to hold electricity, monopropellant, and LiquidH2/LiquidOxygen for the engine -- I can fill the tank with fuel at the right proportions, but I can't easily partially fill a tank at the right proportions for whatever engine I'm using. A slider and some checkboxes next to each tank (for "keep these resources at the same proportions") would be most handy.

[SRFirefox]

Here's something that would be handy: A slider that lets you change the total amount of fuel in a tank while retaining that fuel's proportions. Say I wanted to use the service module tank to hold electricity, monopropellant, and LiquidH2/LiquidOxygen for the engine -- I can fill the tank with fuel at the right proportions, but I can't easily partially fill a tank at the right proportions for whatever engine I'm using. A slider and some checkboxes next to each tank (for "keep these resources at the same proportions") would be most handy.

I'll usually just fill the extra space with a monoprop or other tank, then tell MFS to do a fill-by-engine-type. Then I either empty or delete the other tank. Done!

[jrandom]

I'll usually just fill the extra space with a monoprop or other tank, then tell MFS to do a fill-by-engine-type. Then I either empty or delete the other tank. Done!

I'm often eyeballing my delta-v numbers as I size a tank, so it would be handy to be able to change the amount in the tank + empty space since I'd know what my delta-v and TWR would be.

[rottielover]

I'm trying out the Real fuels for the kerbin sized stuff. I noticed that you need loads and loads of H2 to feed the now fuel hungry LV-N's... My question is, what (if any) advantage does LV-N's give with real fuels?

[jrandom]

I'm trying out the Real fuels for the kerbin sized stuff. I noticed that you need loads and loads of H2 to feed the now fuel hungry LV-N's... My question is, what (if any) advantage does LV-N's give with real fuels?

Have you checked the overall weight of your craft using LiquidH2? It's really, stupendously light. Takes up a lot of space, but the weight savings can be downright staggering. (Remember to use insulated tanks!)

[rottielover]

Have you checked the overall weight of your craft using LiquidH2? It's really, stupendously light. Takes up a lot of space, but the weight savings can be downright staggering. (Remember to use insulated tanks!)

Yea I see that, but I'm still wondering how to feed the LV-N with enough H2 to make it viable. I guess I just need to keep at it.