Modular Fuel System Continued v3.3 (OBSOLETE)

[Rayder]

Oh, sorry. I just sort of skimmed through the last 2 or 3 pages before my post and didn't see anybody say "yes" or "no" to 0.23 compatibility so I figured I'd ask. It is clear to me now that it's still in experimentals.

The current situation of the mod is yes it works, but with some caveats. Some things don't work exactly as intended or work properly, but most of the core mod works properly and you can fire up KSP with it installed no worries. It's basically in 0.23 compatibility mode at the moment.

[NathanKell]

jrandom: Thanks. :]

CorlW: no worries.

Rayder: As it says in the note, however, it (a) may well not be compatible with your save and ( MFS v4 release version might break your save AGAIN.

Ok, I need some volunteers here. I *think* regular MFS is ready to go, but I need people who use it (in NON-RealFuels mode) to say who they are, try it (even try it on old craft and ported saves) and tell me if anything breaks. So--who here plays MFS *without* RealFuels?

RealFuels is nearly there too (I *think*).

[NathanKell]

I seem to be having an issue getting this mod to work, and I'm assuming I'm doing something wrong so let me lay it all out. Current mods I have installed: BoulderCo lights and clouds, deadly reentry, procedural fairings, kerbal joint reinforcement, KWrocketry, modular fuel tanks (obviously), realism overhaul, real solar system, and stretchy tanks. Now, i read the ReadMe for this mod and I've done everything I could see to do. It mentions being able to edit the contents of tanks through the action group menu but for the life of me I can't see where to do this. I went to action groups, clicked on a tank and there's no options available to me (I also tried clicking on an engine). So because I can't edit the contents, none of my engines fire because they all say "Liquid Oxygen Deprived" and I can't edit the contents of the tank to have said liquid oxygen.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

What versions of each of my mods?

[birrhan]

The current situation of the mod is yes it works, but with some caveats. Some things don't work exactly as intended or work properly, but most of the core mod works properly and you can fire up KSP with it installed no worries. It's basically in 0.23 compatibility mode at the moment.

well, there's a couple of people for whom it doesn't work. Bear in mind, it's not supposed to be released yet, so YMMV. For me, engine config files stall the load screen when they get to KW engine definitions (supplied by MFT within the context of RO), or to the stretchy SRBs with KWR uninstalled.

NathanKell: I did install as you suggested. I used the file on p/62 that has RO/MFT/stretchy, and replaced RO with Ro v4rev7 that you posted for jrandom. Installing in the following batch order, everything works as expected:

1: (KWR v2.5.5/Engineer v0.6.1.5)

2: (DRE v4/FAR 0.12.2)

3: (KerbalJoint 1.4.21/KSPX 0.2.5/ProcFair 2.4.2)

4: (Stretchy v7/MFT v4) from RO23, (+engine.cfg from MFT/RealFuels 3.3)

5: RSS 5.4

6: RO 23 <---- Stops working here.

In the context of my log files, can you suggest a possible fix? I thought I'd followed all the instructions to a T. I even did a clean install of the game.

Somebody suggested bundling the RO/RSS mods into a single batch file. I couldn't agree more. I know each component is still being upped to 0.23, but it really is unplayable without RO and the requisite mods, MFT included, and I think the problem is chasing down which of the dozen mods are responsible. Please take that as a compliment--Kerbal isn't fun anymore unless it's got RSS/RO, so thank you for making it fun, and challenging, again.

[Velorium117]

Ah,I got it...I'l admit it, I made a booboo I just realized I was trying to install it in my KSP .23 folder Thanks anyway though lol.

[SFJackBauer]

Nathan, for the engine compatibility issue, I suggest changing the file names of .cfg. Right now there are three possible files:

- ModularFuelTanks\RealFuels\engines.cfg <- cfg for standalone MFS RFRM install

- RealismOverhaul\RtfSEngines.cfg <- your original cfg for RO, rescaling engines to RSS

- RealEngines\real_engines_stats.cfg <- my cfgs for real-world engines, also rescaling engines to RSS

I don't see a scenario where someone would want use more than one of these configs - in fact this could lead to trouble since they overwrite the same stats. So we could agree on ONLY using the first file path, and then in RealismOverhaul and RealEngines we change the packaging so this file gets overwritten. This way the last one extracted wins, and there is no chance two of those could be alive at the same time.

[drtedastro]

I 'think' you just pick ONE, the one that you want to use...

[Starwaster]

Haven't had much chance to do any testing today, been massively busy getting ready to go out of town on the 23rd.

Someone asked what RO I was using, but on my 0.23 install I don't have it installed, just the engines.cfg from the previous (3.3) official release of MF.

But I also see that Nathan reports he thinks he fixed the issues in RO so it might be moot anyway.

[NathanKell]

birrhan:

First, thanks. :]

I agree about the pack. The original idea of Realism Overhaul was that it would be such a pack; MedievalNerd is maintaining a pack for RPL, along those lines. Once everything's stable I'll turn to that.

Regarding your setup. I note that you've updated only some of those mods for .23

KER is now 0.6.20

DRE is now 4.1, and FAR is now 12.3.

KJR is now 1.5

Proc Fairings is now 2.4.3

Regarding my mods (other than DRE, which you need to get v4.1 of):

1. Delete any MFT, RO, or ST folder in GameData

2. Grab this, which is just RO and Stretchy now. Note stock RCS now uses Hydrazine. https://www.dropbox.com/s/h86rk7p3qzq8p1x/RO_Exp23.zip

3. Extract it to GameData

4. Grab latest RealFuels experimental: https://www.dropbox.com/s/67ro5qzv4ue8abq/RealFuels_v4_pre7.zip

5. Extract it to GameData

Try it out.

Velorium117: Ah, ok.

[SFJackBauer]

I 'think' you just pick ONE, the one that you want to use...

Not quite. MFS is a pre-requisite for everything, and comes bundled with its own engines.cfg, for people who don't want to play with RSS. If you install RealismOverhaul, it comes with also its own engine.cfg, so you have to delete the MFS file so they don't conflict. If you forget to delete, bad things happen.

Hmm, I found an issue where, if I right-click an engine in VAB (to show the tweakables menu), the craft mass goes to NaN. Anybody else have it?

[NathanKell]

SFJackBauer: That's why I didn't include any engine defines in the testing MFS, to avoid that problem. That said, I really don't want to have similarly named files--it's much harder to debug when someone says "Yes, I have Engines.cfg" and I have to figure out which got extracted last, than if they say "Oh, I have these two files"

But I am willing to be convinced.

EDIT due to ninja: Will check.

[SFJackBauer]

SFJackBauer: That's why I didn't include any engine defines in the testing MFS, to avoid that problem. That said, I really don't want to have similarly named files--it's much harder to debug when someone says "Yes, I have Engines.cfg" and I have to figure out which got extracted last, than if they say "Oh, I have these two files"

But I am willing to be convinced.

EDIT due to ninja: Will check.

Fair enough. This is a greater problem with KSP modding architecture itself, the lack of a standard "mod manifest" file makes it hard to tell which version is installed, so each mod (at least the ones with a UI) ends up conjuring its own way to display it.

[NathanKell]

SFJackBaeur: Confirmed. Engines need, for their RESOURCE[ElectricCharge] block,

isTweakable = false

hideFlow = true

Not My Problem, however, except to the extent I have engine rescales in MFS.

EDIT: Also, Modular RCS will be in Real Fuels.

Well, support for it. RO will actually use it.

Edited December 22, 2013 by NathanKell

[birrhan]

birrhan:

First, thanks. :]

I agree about the pack. The original idea of Realism Overhaul was that it would be such a pack; MedievalNerd is maintaining a pack for RPL, along those lines. Once everything's stable I'll turn to that.

Regarding your setup. I note that you've updated only some of those mods for .23

KER is now 0.6.20

DRE is now 4.1, and FAR is now 12.3.

KJR is now 1.5

Proc Fairings is now 2.4.3

Regarding my mods (other than DRE, which you need to get v4.1 of):

1. Delete any MFT, RO, or ST folder in GameData

2. Grab this, which is just RO and Stretchy now. Note stock RCS now uses Hydrazine. https://www.dropbox.com/s/h86rk7p3qzq8p1x/RO_Exp23.zip

3. Extract it to GameData

4. Grab latest RealFuels experimental: https://www.dropbox.com/s/67ro5qzv4ue8abq/RealFuels_v4_pre7.zip

5. Extract it to GameData

Try it out.

Velorium117: Ah, ok.

Well, sweet mother of kerbin. I incorporated each of those changes, and we are much closer now. Got to the title screen, loaded, VAB, all parts appear in the menu! Did you change anything in MFT in the last release? The latest version releases that I missed all happened in the last couple of days (Dec 19 or later), so I'd be surprised if that was an issue.

However, now I'm getting an error similar to Velorium117, where only the engine's are modifiable by tech level, but not fuel source, under the options tab. MFTs are not modifiable by fuel source (the window doesn't appear; pressing "G" now changes fuel types to a limited subset, but even matching fuels/engines don't output a dv value in KER).

[Starwaster]

SFJackBaeur: Confirmed. Engines need, for their RESOURCE[ElectricCharge] block,

isTweakable = false

hideFlow = true

Not My Problem, however, except to the extent I have engine rescales in MFS.

EDIT: Also, Modular RCS will be in Real Fuels.

Well, support for it. RO will actually use it.

But what causes it? It doesn't do that in stock, does it? Is it cosmetic only or can it cause genuine problems?

If it has to be that way to avoid engine problems then let's stick a blanket MM statement in somewhere, (not :Final)

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngine],@RESOURCE[@ElectricCharge]]
{
	@RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]
	{
		%isTweakable = false
		%hideFlow = true		
	}
}

That should do it if I understood the problem correctly.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Starwaster

[AbeS]

Here it is Nathan:

@PART[liquidEngine3]:Final //LV-909
{
 @mass = 0.24
 @maxTemp = 1800
 rescaleFactor = 1.0
//@node_stack_top = 0.0, 21.6498, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0
//@node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -37.8251, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0
 @MODULE[ModuleEngines]
 {
  @maxThrust = 0
  @heatProduction = 76
  @atmosphereCurve
  {
   @key,0 = 0 298
   @key,1 = 1 59
  }
  @PROPELLANT[LiquidFuel]
  {
   @name = Amines
   @ratio = 16
  }
  @PROPELLANT[Oxidizer]
  {
   @name = NitrousOxide
   @ratio = 84
  }
 }

Did you upload the updates you made?

[NathanKell]

birrhan, that's very strange. Since Velorium117's was due to having folders not in GameData.

Try using no mods except MFS and the RO/Stretchy I just posted in my last message to you.

Starwaster: Stock engines have those added to their RESOURCE node, but engines in mods that haven't been updated for .23 don't. Your MM patch should work a treat, excepting using % on them instead of just adding them.

AbeS: Yes, that was fixed on my end. Download that RO/ST pack I uploaded (link in my last comment to birrhan), that has the fixed RftSEngines.cfg

[AbeS]

Thanks Nathan! Awesome work!

[HoneyFox]

Eh... I just got an issue...

Two resources: XenonGas & Argon, have much bigger maximum volume than others in one same tank. (i don't know if it's because i'm not using the latest version)

For a small tank that has total volume of 26.4, other resources can only use 26.4 while Argon & XenonGas can use 5280 & 3960 unit of volume...

Which leads to a super heavy tank (10+ tons) with tiny size (even much smaller than stock Oscar-B tank)...

And for Argon, the NearFuture mod pack has ArgonGas resource, i really agree that we should build up a resource name list so all modders can follow.

[NathanKell]

AbeS: Thanks!

HoneyFox: Densities for gases are given in STP; tanks contain them under pressure. That's given as utilization. XenonGas is stored at 150bar, so a 26.4-liter tank at 150bar will contain as much XenonGas as a 3960 liter tank with the Xenon at STP. It *should* come out to ~23kg of Xenon.

BUT you found a bug: I wasn't dividing by utilization when checking tank mass. (So you might get only 23kg of Xenon, but an awful lot of dry mass.) Thanks!

EDIT: Ah, NFPP uses ArgonGas. Bleh. I'll fix.

[Starwaster]

Starwaster: Stock engines have those added to their RESOURCE node, but engines in mods that haven't been updated for .23 don't. Your MM patch should work a treat, excepting using % on them instead of just adding them.

Oops forgot about needing an operator in front.... but does % work with 1.5? Because that's the latest official. Anything after that is a dev version.

[HoneyFox]

AbeS: Thanks!

HoneyFox: Densities for gases are given in STP; tanks contain them under pressure. That's given as utilization. XenonGas is stored at 150bar, so a 26.4-liter tank at 150bar will contain as much XenonGas as a 3960 liter tank with the Xenon at STP. It *should* come out to ~23kg of Xenon.

BUT you found a bug: I wasn't dividing by utilization when checking tank mass. (So you might get only 23kg of Xenon, but an awful lot of dry mass.) Thanks!

EDIT: Ah, NFPP uses ArgonGas. Bleh. I'll fix.

Nope, the stretchy tank's dry mass is only 0.008 ton while the 3960 unit of XenonGas weighs 3.9 ton, I wonder if this is correct...

The tank is: KI-625 Stretchable Fuel Tank, size is: 0.625m * 0.075m.

And i saw a resource definition cfg in MFS folder modifying XenonGas density to 0.001 with comment "at 34 atmospheres". maybe it's out-dated...

EDIT:

Just checked the latest version, it doesn't have that file in the old folder and it has XenonGas' density 0.000005894. However in another folder named "Fixes" there's a config that defines XenonGas' density to 0.001. So what value is actually used?

EDIT2:

Ok this modification totally renders ion thrusters unusable... the drop of density results to consuming more XenonGas at a given thrust, that's OK... but the EC usage got increased dramatically too... I wonder if i need to adjust the propellant ratios.

EDIT3:

NearFuture's DG4S:

3000N * t = m * 23200 * 9.8
m/t = 0.013195kg/s
d = 0.005894kg/x
x/t = m/t/d = 2.238706/s
e/x = 167.07/0.1 = 1670.1
e/t = x/t * e/x = 3738.862885/s

Squad's IonEngine:

500N * t = m * 4200 * 9.8
m/t = 0.012148kg/s
d = 0.005894kg/x
x/t = m/t/d = 2.061031/s
e/x = 12.0/0.1 = 120.0
e/t = x/t * e/x = 247.323710/s

Even the stock ion engine will now need ~250 EC/s when under full thrust... Guess how many solar panels do we need to install?

Perhaps we need realistic ion engine thrust too? like... 0.005kN? Then it will be completely unusable unless we can implement a plugin to allow adjusting orbit velocity during time-warp...

Edited December 22, 2013 by HoneyFox

[NathanKell]

Starwaster: Also, just noticed. Should be ModuleEngines. (Actually, should be ModuleAlternator, but just in case we'll stick with Engines.)

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngines],@RESOURCE[@ElectricCharge]]
{
	@RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]
	{
		%isTweakable = false
		%hideFlow = true
	}
}

I will stash it in Realism Overhaul, since I don't want mod authors to get a false sense of "I'm updated to .23!"

Also, I have yet to see any problems with 1.5.5, and 1.5.6 will have a fix that MFS desperately needs, so I will be bundling that.

HoneyFox:

Argh. Good point. That will increase EC usage dramatically. Nertea and I were going to be overhauling the electric engines anyway, but Nertea got busy (as, in fairness, did I) so not yet. And the stationkeeping mod I plan to make will support offline burns, so...

Now, updates. This may well (again) break your saves and craft. The perils of prereleases, sorry.

When updating, as always, nuke your existing GameData/MODNAME folder before putting the new folder in.

First, you will have to update StretchyTanks again (no matter what version of MFS you want). Assuming you want ST, that is.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rcemfqzq1ci4tnw/StretchySRB_v8pre1.zip

Second, choose your poison: MFT (aka "stock MFS"), or RealFuels (aka MFS-RFRM).

If you want MFT only:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c883mxpxb918tw3/ModularFuelTanks_v4_pre8.zip

If you want RealFuels

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nzel0mvlis8a2ya/RealFuels_v4_pre8.zip

Necessary corollary, the newest RealismOverhaul pre:

(comes with RftSEngines, allowing you to try out all the new fuel mixtures, and also MODULAR RCS*)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dbs6576prf5ftkr/RealismOverhaul_v3pre1.zip

*Stock RCS and RO RCS is set for hydrazine by default but can be swapped to HTP, NitrousOxide, or MonoPropellant. Note that only the last is ALL_VESSEL, so make sure your thrusters can drink from the fuel, by using a stack fuel tank or by using fuel lines. Eventually I will make a plugin to auto-fuel-line radial tanks.

Note: Advanced users may opt out of RO, and/or delete its RftSEngines.cfg and replace it with a different one.

[jrandom]

Yay updates!... Guess I didn't really want to sleep anyway. Again, do I delete any FASA stuff from RO and keep what I have in the custom FASA .cfg or does this latest RO have all the FASA stuff I need?

[NathanKell]

jrandom: the latest RO does not touch FASA stuff I touch in FASA.cfg, so keep your FASA.cfg. RO will now never touch FASA and (eventually) include FASA.cfg in it.