Research Facts Discussion Thread

[AmpsterMan]

So I wanted to start this thread as a place to have a centralized discussion for the various, true facts that the new Data collection system (note: NOT the Research and Development system to which it is related). The purpose is to discuss, organize and catalogue data so that it may be easier for the data to be transfered to the wiki. Also, to help dispell myths and legends.

Please note, this is very early still. Not everything you say is going to be correct, if you have a hunch please state it as such. If you have something a bit more factual, back it up with screenies. If something requires discussion, be cordial about it. I will try my best to keep OP updated with what we have decided are facts.

Basically we are applying science to SCIENCE!

Future facts below

Edited October 17, 2013 by AmpsterMan

[JimmyAgent007]

it would seem that you posted as i was posting almost the same thing... lets let the mods decide what one to keep then..

[kookoo_gr]

So far the Mystery Goo hates deserts, it feels like home when in space (especially at the Mun) and it becomes brittle when in space

[Richy teh space man]

The small science pod reports radiation while in the vicinity of the Mun and Minmus (sorry no screenshots)

[AmpsterMan]

There are 5 different experiment types: Crew Report, Eva Report, Surface Sample, Mystery Goo, and Science Capsule Thing.

All experiments are SOI centric, that is, they can only give you data about your current SOI

Eva Report and Mystery Goo seem to be dependant on Altitude from SOI.

Surface Sample and Crew Report are dependant on Biome and (possibly Altitude)

I know I didn't back up my assertions, this was more of a post to show the direction I would like to take things. I will repost when I get home.

[Rickenbacker]

The old science instruments also give you science points. I.e. the thermometer, barometer and so on. Not much, but it adds up.

[DChurchill]

There are 5 different experiment types: Crew Report, Eva Report, Surface Sample, Mystery Goo, and Science Capsule Thing.

All experiments are SOI centric, that is, they can only give you data about your current SOI

Eva Report and Mystery Goo seem to be dependant on Altitude from SOI.

Surface Sample and Crew Report are dependant on Biome and (possibly Altitude)

I know I didn't back up my assertions, this was more of a post to show the direction I would like to take things. I will repost when I get home.

I think you're spot on, according to my observations.

[-RanZ-]

You have to recover the scientific modules for full value, not just the command pod

[FITorion]

I discovered that you can't store one surface sample and then go and get another. When you try to get back in with the second sample it will force a discard... this is with the mark 1 capsule. I haven't tried with the 3 kerbal capsule yet.

I've gotten into the habit of upon landing back at kerbin... having my kerbal get out and take an eva report and get a sample. Then I recover him and the craft separately.

[ZorkVanDoom]

hey Bodies, i got a probleme with my science points. i build a littlerocket in the careermod. started the rocket, send data etc.... but nothing happens afterall. i got no points. . . after trying it a second and a third time, nothing happends to my sciencspoints i reinstalled the game. started again, build a ship. fly. send data... nothing happens. no sciencepoints in careermod... what do i wrong?!?! please help

[EvilotionCR2]

hey Bodies, i got a probleme with my science points. i build a littlerocket in the careermod. started the rocket, send data etc.... but nothing happens afterall. i got no points. . . after trying it a second and a third time, nothing happends to my sciencspoints i reinstalled the game. started again, build a ship. fly. send data... nothing happens. no sciencepoints in careermod... what do i wrong?!?! please help

Do you recover the craft after landing? Or just push "revert"? To recover craft from the flight put your mouse on the altitude meter,a green icon should pop up,click on it and confirm. Then you should have the science points.

Edited October 17, 2013 by EvilotionCR2

[VirtualCLD]

There are 5 different experiment types: Crew Report, Eva Report, Surface Sample, Mystery Goo, and Science Capsule Thing.

All experiments are SOI centric, that is, they can only give you data about your current SOI

Eva Report and Mystery Goo seem to be dependant on Altitude from SOI.

Surface Sample and Crew Report are dependant on Biome and (possibly Altitude)

I know I didn't back up my assertions, this was more of a post to show the direction I would like to take things. I will repost when I get home.

Odd, but I think I have found the opposite with EVA reports and Crew Reports. So far, EVA reports appear dependent on Biome and Crew Reports appear dependent on Altitude and SOI. I have also found the Mystery Goo does give a different report in the water vs the land on Kerbin, but I don't think the Biome on land matters at all.

It looks like the wiki already has some of this documented:

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science

Edited October 17, 2013 by VirtualCLD
Added wiki link

[Martonaut]

the goo report on Duna says something like: "its getting red like de planet below" not the exact test, but the idea

[Francesco]

I discovered that you can't store one surface sample and then go and get another. When you try to get back in with the second sample it will force a discard... this is with the mark 1 capsule. I haven't tried with the 3 kerbal capsule yet.

Unfortunately, you can only store one surface sample per capsule, and not one per crew member (as I would have expected.)

This means that you can increase science returns by using multiple 1-man pods in place of a single one.

(altought it should also be noted that surface samples bring progressively diminishing returns)

[HeadHunter67]

Are you talking about multiple surface samples from the same biome, or are you unable to store samples of different surfaces in the same pod?

[AmpsterMan]

Odd, but I think I have found the opposite with EVA reports and Crew Reports. So far, EVA reports appear dependent on Biome and Crew Reports appear dependent on Altitude and SOI. I have also found the Mystery Goo does give a different report in the water vs the land on Kerbin, but I don't think the Biome on land matters at all.

It looks like the wiki already has some of this documented:

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science

I might have gotten them mixed up. As far as the wiki is concerned, I hope to contribute to it. This thread is made to help expedite accurate info on the new science system so that it may be better reflected on the wiki.

[paleorob]

I have noticed that the thermometer doesn't return a value when sampling in a hard vaccum (100km or more above Kerbin).

[effy]

It seems that the reduction of science on repeated experiments is actually different depending on which part is used.

For example 5/9 of the science (recovered or transmitted doesn't matter) you get from the mystery goo gets substracted from the amount you will receive for the same experiment the next time. I shot a capsule with six goo canisters into space an used them all at around the dame time. The science i got from this was: 10.0/4.4/2.0/0.9/0.4/0.2.

As you can see, you can calculate the amount of science for each canister by multiplying the amount from the previous one with 1-5/9=4/9 (numbers in KSP are rounded to one decimal).

Other numbers I found so far for reduction per one point of science:

Crew Report: 5/8

EVA Report: 3/4

Soil Sample: 4/5

Material Studies/Science Jr.: 5/7

Edited October 17, 2013 by effy

[FITorion]

Are you talking about multiple surface samples from the same biome, or are you unable to store samples of different surfaces in the same pod?

I discovered it on Minmus... which has no biomes yet.

I just tested it on the launch pad on the off chance different biomes mattered. They do. I took a sample from the pad and stored it. I then walked off the pad and got another. They are different biomes and the pod was able to store both just fine.

[ZodiaK]

hey Bodies, i got a probleme with my science points. i build a littlerocket in the careermod. started the rocket, send data etc.... but nothing happens afterall. i got no points. . . after trying it a second and a third time, nothing happends to my sciencspoints i reinstalled the game. started again, build a ship. fly. send data... nothing happens. no sciencepoints in careermod... what do i wrong?!?! please help

have you actually done any science?

just extending the antenna won't give you points in itself.

ZodiaK. Helpfuul!

[Kerbonautical]

hey Bodies, i got a probleme with my science points. i build a littlerocket in the careermod. started the rocket, send data etc.... but nothing happens afterall. i got no points. . . after trying it a second and a third time, nothing happends to my sciencspoints i reinstalled the game. started again, build a ship. fly. send data... nothing happens. no sciencepoints in careermod... what do i wrong?!?! please help

It seems your skipping the science part. Initially you wont have any modules to attach for science, but you can take a vessel to space, or even a few hundred feet in the air and recover the ship from the control centre after safely landing. You can also EVA your kerbals from the launch pad in just a capsule for an EVA report and a surface sample for some science points. Most of it will need to be unlocked first though by experimenting with spacecraft and safely landing it on Kerbin.

Also if you take your vessel up into the upper atmosphere you will probably have earned some data to transmit, although the spacecraft may need to be returned for analysis to earn the points for it, I couldn't be sure on that personally.

[AndrewBCrisp]

Re: crew and EVA reports

I've flown about a dozen missions now in .22 (started over today) and as far as Kerbin is concerned, here's what I've learned about crew reports.

As others have said, crew reports are affected by altitude, Sphere of Influence and biome - at least if you're on the ground or in the lower atmosphere. The upper atmosphere (lower boundary uncertain but I suspect about 30 km - further tests will be needed) is treated as a single "biome" regardless of what features are passing under your capsule at the moment. Low orbit is treated similarly. I am not certain if there are different reports for any "high orbit" conditions as I have yet to send a capsule into orbits above 150 km.

The command pod can store only 1 crew report at a time, so to get multiple reports on, say, a suborbital flight, you will need to transmit the reports back to Kerbin. Thankfully, crew reports can be transmitted with no science loss. The command pod can store multiple EVA reports, however, and EVA reports differ by biome even while in orbit.

It's interesting that EVA reports in orbit can produce different results depending on the biome you're passing over while crew reports cannot. I'm not sure if this is intentional or accidental.

That's all I have for now. More when I have a chance to probe farther from Kerbin.

[SteevyT]

There are different crew and EVA reports for low and high orbits around Kerbin, Minmus, and the Mun. (Or at least one of the reports is altitude dependent, I forget which one right now)

[Ketil]

Transmitting the experiment back at a loss (ex. transmitting Science Jr. experiments will only give 20%) will only give diminishing returns on the transmitted data (the 20%). So if you get 100 science from a Science Jr. on the Mun and then transmit only 20, then the next time you repeat it you will get 100-(20*0.71)=85.7 (0.71 is my calculated value for diminishing return). This means the next time you observe the Science Jr it will read 85.7 Science, and you can transmit back 20% of that or bring all 100% of it back home to Kerbin if you want to. So basically, if you have enough power (or solar panels) you don't lose anything by transmitting experiments, it just takes time to have to redo them so many times.

When I went to Minimus with 4 Science Jr. and 4 Goo, I transmitted experiments, crew reports and EVA reports on both at high orbit, then at low orbit (gives different for each). This takes time since you have to do the experiments like 20 times each for the diminishing returns to reach 0 and waiting for solar panels to recharge. Then I landed and kept the samples from when I landed and returned to Kerbin. That mission netted me about 1200 Science, about 400 from the samples I brought back, and 800 from the transmitted ones!

[combat squirrel]

Im having issues with running out of electric all the time, unlocked 2 trees how do I deal with this ?