[Airships in 1.12.3] HooliganLabs Mods

[JewelShisen]

I have updated the main post with information and new link.

[Hooligan Labs]

Wow, my mods are (completely thanks to JS) on Curse!

It was parachute-like inflatable balloons that inspired my original animated envelope designs. I think I wrote up some posts on how to make animated shape-changing parts in KSP on my old thread. I used Blender. If you can't find it there, I could probably put something together... And I bet I still have all the old Blender files to act as a template too.

[JewelShisen]

Wow, my mods are (completely thanks to JS) on Curse!

It was parachute-like inflatable balloons that inspired my original animated envelope designs. I think I wrote up some posts on how to make animated shape-changing parts in KSP on my old thread. I used Blender. If you can't find it there, I could probably put something together... And I bet I still have all the old Blender files to act as a template too.

Glad to see that you approve~ I'm going to start working on some new parts including adding some expansions to the current SQUID line via MM cfg files for B9, LLL, and Firespitter (with their ok of course)

[Algomeysa]

So, I was playing with the Hooligan Labs Submarines 1_2_0, and then I found your 1.3.0 (Thanks for carrying it on!).

In the 1_2_0 they had 3 vehicles, 2 rovers (Rover Depth Test and Leviathan), both have the ballast tank on-screen control.

They also had a Submarine MK1, but in both 1_2_0 and 1.3.0, it's greyed out on the load screen and says,

"Contains locked or invalid parts."

Can anyone point me to a working submarine .craft file that uses this add-on?

[JewelShisen]

So, I was playing with the Hooligan Labs Submarines 1_2_0, and then I found your 1.3.0 (Thanks for carrying it on!).

In the 1_2_0 they had 3 vehicles, 2 rovers (Rover Depth Test and Leviathan), both have the ballast tank on-screen control.

They also had a Submarine MK1, but in both 1_2_0 and 1.3.0, it's greyed out on the load screen and says,

"Contains locked or invalid parts."

Can anyone point me to a working submarine .craft file that uses this add-on?

Thank you so much for letting me know that you enjoy the mod!

I will be working on a demo craft release in the coming days.

[Algomeysa]

Here's something I don't understand, when I play with the buoyancy on those two rovers from the original 1_2_0... nothing seems to happen. When I crank it all the way up, shouldn't they lift off the ocean floor and start bobbing towards the surface or something?

[JewelShisen]

Here's something I don't understand, when I play with the buoyancy on those two rovers from the original 1_2_0... nothing seems to happen. When I crank it all the way up, shouldn't they lift off the ocean floor and start bobbing towards the surface or something?

Not sure what is going on there.

[Algomeysa]

It is rather exhilarating and terrifying to take a rover down that continental shelf drop-off just offshore of the Kerbal Space Center and watch it pick up speed until the 500 meter depth warning that it'll be crushed at 600 meters. And at 600 meters...yeah...they weren't kidding!

[JewelShisen]

It is rather exhilarating and terrifying to take a rover down that continental shelf drop-off just offshore of the Kerbal Space Center and watch it pick up speed until the 500 meter depth warning that it'll be crushed at 600 meters. And at 600 meters...yeah...they weren't kidding!

Yea it can be pretty cool

[JewelShisen]

It appears those LDSD devices are highly advanced parachutes. The Una was based on a similar design, just meant to be buoyant as well as good for causing drag.

It's a bit tricky to make shape-changing models in KSP. I shared my old Blender files a while ago. If they have been lost to the sands of time I can share them again.

I can make some animated models in Blender. Even working on one that will be an aerodynamic nosecone shape for use with FAR but I am having issues with the animation looping

[Storywalker4]

Could you tackle the 600 meter depth limit? It'd allow for more proper use of Laythe and allow for Kethane rigs. Over half my deposits on Kerbin are underwater.

[JewelShisen]

Could you tackle the 600 meter depth limit? It'd allow for more proper use of Laythe and allow for Kethane rigs. Over half my deposits on Kerbin are underwater.

That is one of the items I plan to try and take down once I learn some C# and can really mess with the plugin.

[taniwha]

Could you tackle the 600 meter depth limit? It'd allow for more proper use of Laythe and allow for Kethane rigs. Over half my deposits on Kerbin are underwater.

Here's something very important to consider: 600m deep means ~61x atmospheric pressure from just the water, or about 6.1MPa. While not all that challenging, I doubt that your average rocket or space plane part is built for that. For comparison, the Q factor at Mach 1 at sea level is about 61kPa.

[JewelShisen]

Here's something very important to consider: 600m deep means ~61x atmospheric pressure from just the water, or about 6.1MPa. While not all that challenging, I doubt that your average rocket or space plane part is built for that. For comparison, the Q factor at Mach 1 at sea level is about 61kPa.

This is true as well. So my thought was to make it a feature that you can set when you start the save file. That way you can either play it safe and stick to the 600m depth limit or risk the physics going insane and remove the limit.

EDIT: Also just as a note, if you tried to go down to the lowest points of Laythe's oceans you would be under nearly 28MPa or around 4000psi of pressure.

Edited May 30, 2014 by JewelShisen

[Galacticruler]

You'd get more downloads off of curse.

[Algomeysa]

I tried an experiment, I used that Hooligan Labs Leviathan underwater rover, attached a capsule with 3 Kerbals, went down the continental shelf slope past the 500 meter warning, went to about 590 meters, had a Kerbal get out. Somewhat to my surprise, he could walk around on the ocean floor ok (Although I couldn't seem to get his viewpoint, I could only look down from above). But... he was fine until 599 meters, he exploded in puff of smoke at 600 meters.

[JewelShisen]

I tried an experiment, I used that Hooligan Labs Leviathan underwater rover, attached a capsule with 3 Kerbals, went down the continental shelf slope past the 500 meter warning, went to about 590 meters, had a Kerbal get out. Somewhat to my surprise, he could walk around on the ocean floor ok (Although I couldn't seem to get his viewpoint, I could only look down from above). But... he was fine until 599 meters, he exploded in puff of smoke at 600 meters.

Yea the 600m limit is from the HLSubs plugin. If I get the chance I am going to look at tweaking it some and see how deep it can be moved without the physics bugging out TOO much.

[Algomeysa]

Yea the 600m limit is from the HLSubs plugin. If I get the chance I am going to look at tweaking it some and see how deep it can be moved without the physics bugging out TOO much.

Oh, so the 600 meter limit isn't something inherently built into the game?

I'll note a really weird thing I experienced:

according to kerbalmaps.com the deepest part of the Kerbal ocean is 1391 meters, here: 28 54 18 S 276 53 19 E.

I'd gone out there with some sort of vague plan to be Kerbal James Cameron, ascending to the bottom of the deepest trench in the ocean.

Pretty soon I had 2 or 3 Kerbals treading water there.

I sent another Kerbal out there in a ship (I mean, a boat) I had downloaded that somebody made (Hydra speedboat). Ok, I had to cheat on fuel to get all the way down there to that part of the southern hemisphere.

Once I got in the right area, I F5 quicksaved.

But when I f9 restored, a bizarre thing happened: the boat instantly went to the bottom, but my Kerbal was thrown clear, treading water on the surface.

But when I looked down....beneath my feet, as it were.... the Heads Up Display showed the boat as 1.4 kilometers away.

That pretty much confirms the accuracy of that depth, 1391 meters, 1.4 kilometers.

So I then switched the view to the boat. It immediately began rising to the surface. It didn't explode when it passed the 600 meter mark. I suppose because, if the 600 meter limit is just part of the HL mod, it wasn't present with any of the vehicles I was using at the time. Though at the time I thought the 600 meter limit was built into the game itself, and just figured the game wasn't configured to detect stuff RISING, not descending, past the 600 meter limit.

When the boat hit the surface, it hit so hard it shot right out of the water, like a cork that had been released from deep underwater.

I've tried to recreate this a few times, unsuccessfully. Which is too bad, because, I can see it as a sort of depth charge, even if I can't get a Kerbal down there, sunken boats to confirm depth....

[JewelShisen]

Oh, so the 600 meter limit isn't something inherently built into the game?

I'll note a really weird thing I experienced:

according to kerbalmaps.com the deepest part of the Kerbal ocean is 1391 meters, here: 28 54 18 S 276 53 19 E.

I'd gone out there with some sort of vague plan to be Kerbal James Cameron, ascending to the bottom of the deepest trench in the ocean.

Pretty soon I had 2 or 3 Kerbals treading water there.

I sent another Kerbal out there in a ship (I mean, a boat) I had downloaded that somebody made (Hydra speedboat). Ok, I had to cheat on fuel to get all the way down there to that part of the southern hemisphere.

Once I got in the right area, I F5 quicksaved.

But when I f9 restored, a bizarre thing happened: the boat instantly went to the bottom, but my Kerbal was thrown clear, treading water on the surface.

But when I looked down....beneath my feet, as it were.... the Heads Up Display showed the boat as 1.4 kilometers away.

That pretty much confirms the accuracy of that depth, 1391 meters, 1.4 kilometers.

So I then switched the view to the boat. It immediately began rising to the surface. It didn't explode when it passed the 600 meter mark. I suppose because, if the 600 meter limit is just part of the HL mod, it wasn't present with any of the vehicles I was using at the time. Though at the time I thought the 600 meter limit was built into the game itself, and just figured the game wasn't configured to detect stuff RISING, not descending, past the 600 meter limit.

When the boat hit the surface, it hit so hard it shot right out of the water, like a cork that had been released from deep underwater.

I've tried to recreate this a few times, unsuccessfully. Which is too bad, because, I can see it as a sort of depth charge, even if I can't get a Kerbal down there, sunken boats to confirm depth....

Yea that is a really weird thing having to do with the game really disliking the changes to the float code that HLSubs makes. Needless to say but the Kracken really likes to mess with ships if you f5/f9 them.

[Algomeysa]

So here's a weird thing. Outside of the HL Sub mod,

I used this submarine design by squishumz:

http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1cwao4/

It's mod-free.

It's one of those bunch-of-rocket-engines pointing upward to get the craft underwater. And it works; I was able to drive along the ocean floor deeper and deeper until I was at a greater than 1000 meter depth.

(I cheated on unlimited fuel to manage that, but I was more interested in seeing if I could get a vehicle that deep).

(It gets a little funky, the cockpit view gets weird at a certain point, but if you view your craft from mid-range above, switch on your lights, you can get a decent view of the sea floor.)

But...when I exit the craft, my Kerbal immediately bobs to the surface.

However, when I do use the Hooligan Lab sub mod, with that Leviathan rover, with a capsule attached, I can have a Kerbal get out and walk the sea floor.

Why is that, is there something in the HL mod that makes underwater Kerbals less buoyant, or does the neutral/negative buoyancy of the Leviathan rover somehow transfer to the exiting Kerbal, or....???

Edited June 3, 2014 by Algomeysa

[JewelShisen]

So here's a weird thing. Outside of the HL Sub mod,

I used this submarine design by squishumz:

http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1cwao4/

It's mod-free.

It's one of those bunch-of-rocket-engines pointing upward to get the craft underwater. And it works; I was able to drive along the ocean floor deeper and deeper until I was at a greater than 1000 meter depth.

(I cheated on unlimited fuel to manage that, but I was more interested in seeing if I could get a vehicle that deep).

(It gets a little funky, the cockpit view gets weird at a certain point, but if you view your craft from mid-range above, switch on your lights, you can get a decent view of the sea floor.)

But...when I exit the craft, my Kerbal immediately bobs to the surface.

However, when I do use the Hooligan Lab sub mod, with that Leviathan rover, with a capsule attached, I can have a Kerbal get out and walk the sea floor.

Why is that, is there something in the HL mod that makes underwater Kerbals less buoyant, or does the neutral/negative buoyancy of the Leviathan rover somehow transfer to the exiting Kerbal, or....???

Correct. HL Subs totally redoes the float code and so long as the Kerbal EVAs from a ship already underwater he will be fine and stay underwater.

[Algomeysa]

Heh, now I'm picturing using a HL sub to make myself ocean-floor-walkable then switching to one of the unmodded subs. Probably not possible because the latter need to be firing rockets at all times to stay under. Also, I guess if I then get out of the unmodded sub below 600 meters I'd still explode, having been made under-600 meter explode-able by the previous sub.

Hmmm, if I use a HL sub to make myself ocean-floor-walkable, then walk up onto the beach on the surface, then back into the water, am I still ocean-floor walk-able? So many things to test...

[Algomeysa]

Well, I had to experiment. Here's what I learned.

Having any sort of Hooligan Labs sub tech in a Kerbal universe seems to make all the Kerbals ocean-floor-walkable. That is, after loading up a HL Leviathan rover with a capsule attached, driving it to the beach, but not going in the water, I loaded up the non-HL sub, drove that to the beach. The Kerbal in it could get out on the beach and walk into the water onto the ocean floor and keep descending, so it would seem that the presence of HL sub technology causes all Kerbals to become less buoyant, regardless of whether they've been in a HL sub or exited underwater from one.

As expected, even the ones that haven't been in the HL-sub-tech vehicle implode at the 600 meter deep mark.

The non-HL sub, when driven under 600 meters, also implodes (whereas it doesn't in a game-universe with no Hooligan Lab sub tech).

So I guess in my quest to be Kerbal James Cameron, and send a Kerbal down to the deepest part of the ocean (1391 meters deep), I'm going to have to stick with the non-Hooligan Labs tech, in a saved game where no vehicle with HL-sub-tech has been used.

[raxo2222]

I think I just found mod, that will allow me to land 300 ton rockets on water

Firesplitters seaparts are just too weak for it.

[Hooligan Labs]

I write this without having kept up with the latest changes to my mod, by those keeping it up to date.

Having any sort of Hooligan Labs sub tech in a Kerbal universe seems to make all the Kerbals ocean-floor-walkable.

Yes, the custom script affects nearby EVA Kerbals and makes them sink like they had ballast tanks.

So I guess in my quest to be Kerbal James Cameron, and send a Kerbal down to the deepest part of the ocean (1391 meters deep), I'm going to have to stick with the non-Hooligan Labs tech, in a saved game where no vehicle with HL-sub-tech has been used.

KSP has a real problem with objects at an altitude of -600 meters or less. While it might seem like it works at first, if you open a debug window you would find it constantly spewing errors.

The biggest problem is how it handles loading back in a vessel that is below 600m underwater. It will place the vessel partway underground, causing the vessel to explode into pieces. Same for EVAs.

Perhaps there could be an option to allow vessels to go deeper, but also consider this... Under 600 meters of water, the pressure is something like that of 30 Mainsail rockets firing full power. Per square inch. Could almost anything survive that?

I think I just found mod, that will allow me to land 300 ton rockets on water

Firesplitters seaparts are just too weak for it.

I don't think it's too weak so much as a difference in design. If it is still like how it was when I based the submarine parts off of the Firespitter parts, then the Firespitter parts only change how their own colliders interact with water. Thus, a pontoon might do fine in water but for any other part it is like hitting solid earth. The submarine ballast tanks make it so the entire vessel has its parts' colliders replaced with ones that treat water as water and not as solid ground. So yes, your whole rocket not splashes rather than crashes! Though it probably doesn't float anymore.