How Has .22 Changed your probe design?

[milbournosphere]

Mine have gotten heavier. Here's my first .22 interplanetary probe, sent to Duna; and my first visit ever to Duna.

It's certainly heavier than some of my .21 designs...I didn't know one could re-use the goo, so there were far too many goo pods on the thing. That being said, it did do good science. I aerobraked with it to see how thin the atmosphere really was. It's incredibly thin! I returned a few good reports before smashing into the surface.

How has your probe design changed with the new science pods in .22?

Edited October 20, 2013 by milbournosphere

[Whackjob]

One, I now make probes. Two, they have every sensor possible on them. Three, I put the chutes on radial decouplers because I find the spent chute casings to be annoying. Four, I now make probes.

[JeanHavoc]

my probe design has changed as a matter of necessity. I mean, there really was no other option, particularly given how limited my allotment of parts has remained even as I've moved up the tech tree - well I mean as far as building probes go. By far the hardest part is making the probes aesthetically pleasing. Guess it doesn't really matter that much but I like what I build to at least look like some thought went into putting it together.

So far there are two probes that I've been using in the early going, designed to be light weight so the lack of heavy boosters wouldn't be a problem. The first is very simple and here's a pic of the probe in orbit around Ike (I went to Duna first):

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/576751633640141795/066DD6BFE1B4332AA920D20E8CAB25B5B9977751/

That one I like quite a bit as it did far more than I ever anticipated it would. The second version of my probe is a lander and is basically an enhanced model of what I just posted above, it looks like this whilst on the Mun:

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/576751633640150802/B24EE6179F9C07EBFC7A62193F26B1FC686E6863/

Never really did use the Stayputnik part much myself but 0.22 is giving me a reason to if nothing else. That lander by the way has an addition 100 L of fuel and some of the solar panels removed to accommodate the goo containers. In fact, that pic represents my first successful probe landing on the Mun as of the new release. I am enjoying the game as is, think it can use some tweaks going forward however.

[Rickenbacker]

They got bigger. I try to cram as many science experiments on there as I possibly can. Plus, with the ion engine at the end of the tech tree, i had nuclear engines on my first probes - why NOT make them big?

[SpaceSphereOfDeath]

Asymmetrical, that's it

[Sirrobert]

I now actually make probes is the first one yea. And ofcourse they got aLOT bigger.

Only things I made before career were satelites. Basicly a probe body, 2 solar pannels, engine for ants, and 2 comm dishes for the looks

[Kasuha]

0.22 made me make my first exploration probe, up to now everything was just an utility probe, e.g. to deliver fuel. And I made my first rover too, by adding wheels to that probe

[Torham234]

I always liked to "roleplay" probes, but now I actually have a reason to build them! But they certainly got heavier and bulkier, since most of the small parts are quite advanced, and therefore not easily unlockable.

I have just parked my first probe in the Duna system. I did think of sending a detachable surface probe with parachutes, but than I realized that my Kerbals do not yet know if Duna has any atmosphere, so I opted for just an orbital probe with as many scientific instruments as I could get on it and enough deltaV to explore any potential moons...

here it is parked on orbit around the newly discovered Ike!

Edited October 20, 2013 by Torham234

[Force21]

I don't build probes anymore because pilots can give more science. I still only use probes to de-orbit orbital stages.

[FlowerChild]

I don't build probes anymore because pilots can give more science. I still only use probes to de-orbit orbital stages.

Yeah, I'm wondering myself about why people are saying they're now encouraged to build probes, given I found career mode totally killed the desire for probes since manned missions are superior in pretty much every way, and are also available earlier in the tech tree.

The only practical use I've found for them is as mid tech-level rescue vehicles given you can send an empty capsule with a probe core attached to pick someone up, and even then, I kinda manufactured that excuse to make them given there's no real reason why I'd need to rescue my kerbals in the first place rather than just leaving them there.

Edited October 20, 2013 by FlowerChild

[Lazro]

...manned missions are superior in pretty much every way.

I take it you don't care if they smash into the surface of another planet and die.

[MonkeyFuzz]

In the past I used probes solely for fielding the ISA MapSat and Kethane detector parts and role-playing sample return missions from Kethane-bearing destinations. Now my one-way probes go out loaded with thermometers and the like (so as to not waste the Science). Additionally, I now send round-trip probes so they can run their experiments at the different elevations around planets and moons. I've had one dismal failure of such a mission to Eve, which ended up running out of fuel on the return burn. The follow-up mission to Duna was a success, despite some difficulties with the vehicle breaking up on its watery touchdown on Kerbin. Regardless, I was able to recover over 1000 Science.

[FlowerChild]

I take it you don't care if they smash into the surface of another planet and die.

Well, there's no *gameplay* reason at present to care, no. Kerbals are an infinite resource, and better at accumulating science than probes.

The "manned before probes" tech progression also encourages us to treat Kerbals as expendable, so it's something that's being reinforced by the design as well.

Edited October 20, 2013 by FlowerChild

[Torham234]

Yeah, I'm wondering myself about why people are saying they're now encouraged to build probes, given I found career mode totally killed the desire for probes since manned missions are superior in pretty much every way, and are also available earlier in the tech tree.

I only send a manned mission after at least one probe has made the exact same trip and returned safely to Kerbin. I do every possible thing to ensure the safety of my Kerbals. Sure there were some harrowing manned flights in the early days, but ever since I got my first remote control core I fly them first everywhere.

There is pretty much no point in trying to max out the science as fast as possible in my opinion anyway. There is much more total science available than than you can ever use up, so I can take things slowly. People were complaining that they max out the tech tree very fast .... well why not chill a bit and take things easy? I had plenty of fun taking things one step at a time, sending remote probes before even attempting a manned mission.

[ScramblesTD]

Yeah, I'm wondering myself about why people are saying they're now encouraged to build probes, given I found career mode totally killed the desire for probes since manned missions are superior in pretty much every way, and are also available earlier in the tech tree.

With the new limitations offered early on by the tech tree, it's safer to send probes as opposed to Kerbals, namely because you can forgo assembling an ascent stage. If Kerbals can't make it home, you have to design and plan a rescue mission. A probe can simply transmit all the data (albeit slowly) and can then be abandoned, or retrieved at later time by means of a manned mission using KAS.

[FlowerChild]

With the new limitations offered early on by the tech tree, it's safer to send probes as opposed to Kerbals, namely because you can forgo assembling an ascent stage. If Kerbals can't make it home, you have to design and plan a rescue mission. A probe can simply transmit all the data (albeit slowly) and can then be abandoned, or retrieved at later time by means of a manned mission using KAS.

Well, one of those limitations is that you don't have access to probes early on in the tech tree, so I don't really see your point there. Also, there's no *need* to rescue your Kerbals, you can just leave them wherever they are and they'll keep on smiling, so I guess they're cool with it.

Maybe if some kind of cost is eventually associated with losing Kerbals this will work a little better, but at present, I just don't see any need for probes other than whatever roleplaying justifications we ourselves create as players.

[ScramblesTD]

Well, one of those limitations is that you don't have access to probes early on in the tech tree, so I don't really see your point there. Also, there's no *need* to rescue your Kerbals, you can just leave them wherever they are and they'll keep on smiling, so I guess they're cool with it.

With the first couple of tech levels you can quite easily design ships capable of leaving Kerbin's SOI and heading to other planets. Getting them back however is a different matter entirely until nuclear engines come along. I'm talking about reaching out a little farther than Minmus or the Mun.

As for there being no "need" to rescue Kerbals due to their being no gameplay justification, one could just as easily argue that there's no "need" to play career over sandbox. The only thing that needs to be done is what you, the player, wants done.

[Valley]

Never made probes before and will unlikely make them now. Rarely leave Kerbin and her moons.

[FlowerChild]

As for there being no "need" to rescue Kerbals due to their being no gameplay justification, one could just as easily argue that there's no "need" to play career over sandbox. The only thing that needs to be done is what you, the player, wants done.

Errrr...isn't that what sandbox is for? To my mind, career is meant to put a layer of gameplay on top of that and provide gameplay reasons for why you're doing any of this stuff. We can get philosophical and say there's also no need to play the game or take it even further and say there's no need to keep on breathing. However, I don't think dissecting and invalidating the concept of "need" is a particularly constructive approach to this kind of conversation

I'm simply trying to clarify why people in this thread seem to be saying they feel an increased "need" to build probes with the new release, when I've found the exact opposite to be true. Within the context of sandbox we were doing everything "just because", but in career we are operating within certain defined constraints. I just don't get how any of those constraints serve to encourage the building of probes rather than discourage it (which is what I'm finding it's doing).

Edited October 20, 2013 by FlowerChild

[milbournosphere]

I for one am eager to unlock the atmospheric science tool. I've still yet to reach planets other than eve and duna, and that's just with impactors. I could always look up how thick the atmosphere of XXX planet is, or the strength of its gravity, but I'd rather derive the thickness and density of a given planets' atmosphere rather than relying on the KSP wiki. I'd prefer to self discover, so for me the probes are valuable. Also, my fiancée has forbidden me from killing Kerbals, so mine is a 0 loss space program.

[Decho]

I don't build probes anymore because pilots can give more science. I still only use probes to de-orbit orbital stages.

This also. Surface samples and EVA/crew reports really bring in the Science.

[Sirrobert]

Yeah, I'm wondering myself about why people are saying they're now encouraged to build probes, given I found career mode totally killed the desire for probes since manned missions are superior in pretty much every way, and are also available earlier in the tech tree.

The only practical use I've found for them is as mid tech-level rescue vehicles given you can send an empty capsule with a probe core attached to pick someone up, and even then, I kinda manufactured that excuse to make them given there's no real reason why I'd need to rescue my kerbals in the first place rather than just leaving them there.

You can send a probe to some for away planet you don't have the tech or skill yet to reach and return from, and gather science without losing a kerbal

[Andrew Hansen]

Although I myself haven't sent any unmanned probes yet, I realize why 0.22 might encourage probes more. If you agree that you want to get your Kerbals back to Kerbin, that means that in your ship design you'll have to pack more rocket fuel than if it was a one-way mission. And while it's true that manned missions bring you more science, the ease of sending unmanned probes to other planets versus manned rockets often makes probes a much better way of doing things.

I haven't gone beyond Kerbin's SOI yet in Career mode, so I suspect that once I do that I will be using a lot more probes.

[Donziboy2]

I have not actually launched a single probe. My Kerbals are getting tired from all these trips back and forth:)

[Savage117]

Career mode has definitely changed my probe design, considering I now cant build probes at the start, im very careful with my Kerbals, building elaborate escape systems for them and such to help them survive.

I'm playing an Iron Man type career mode where I can only use Jeb, Bob, Bill, and the first recruits provided for the whole game, if they die they get a flag (Gravestone) near the launch pad and I have to do without them for the rest of that save. Probes will definitely help them survive but im waiting for all the instruments before I send one interplanetary.