Balancing the Mystery Goo Containment Unit

[Mephane]

Literally, I mean.

I have a simple craft, the core consists of, from top to bottom, a small parachute, 1 man capsule, SC 9001 Science Jr, FL-T400 fuel tank, and a LV-909 engine. Slap on some landing legs, batteries, solar cells, an antenna and the smaller science instruments (thermometer etc.) and this is a decent science craft to land on Mun and Minmus. Now all it lacks is the mystery goo container.

This thing is mounted radially and weighs a whopping 0.15 tons. On single Kerbal craft or probes this is huge, even if I cram everything else that is radially mounted (solar panels, batteries, antenna etc.) on the opposite side, it never adds up to the same weight. Yet a second goo container is effectively dead weight, and quite a lot at that, too.

At some point I considered the radially mounted parachute, but then the craft would fall over upon touch back on Kerbin, with the risk of breaking stuff, too (plus it is awkward). If I mount the goo container on top of the capsule, I have no good place for the parachute, because you cannot attach stuff to the goo container because of the way it operates.

How do you balance it out? Or do you just bring two of them all the time?

Edited October 20, 2013 by Mephane

[WillHop]

It tends to look a little odd without another one being symmetrical, so I just bring two.

[Whackjob]

I just put one goo tank on the back of the science jr, then put both on top of a reaction wheel. Done.

[blizzy78]

As long as you don't have access to the radial parachutes, just bring two. After that, mount it at the top where the stack mounted parachute was.

[Sir Nahme]

Bring 4! Get all your science done in one shot

[AmpsterMan]

I use it to help my steering

[Torham234]

I usually bring two. I only rarely do a return trip (only with manned craft), so 2 goo containers speed up the transmission procedure somewhat.

[Andrew Hansen]

If you do return trips, having more mystery goo containers is better because then instead of transmitting the data, you can save it and bring it back to Kerbin (if you transmit it, you get less science and it resets the goo container. If you save it and then use it again, it also resets it.)

I always bring two. It's not really that heavy.

[FlamedSteak]

I've found it only throws out the balance of the smaller craft. Though it's sometimes prudent to bring two, sometimes I get different results depending on whether they are on the sunlit side of the spacecraft.

[Fr3Runn3r]

If you do return trips, having more mystery goo containers is better because then instead of transmitting the data, you can save it and bring it back to Kerbin (if you transmit it, you get less science and it resets the goo container. If you save it and then use it again, it also resets it.)

I always bring two. It's not really that heavy.

Actually you get the same amount of total science whether you transmit or not. It just takes more transmissions than recoveries. In other words if you have the electricity to support it, it is always good to do transmissions.

[blizzy78]

Actually you get the same amount of total science whether you transmit or not. It just takes more transmissions than recoveries.

Quite a lot of players seem to be confused about diminishing returns on doing the same experiment again and again versus the transmission penalty instead of recovering the vessel. As you correctly pointed out, it does not matter if you transmit the data or recover the vessel. Transmitting it just takes longer.

[Dave Kerbin]

My biome explorer pod faced the same issue in design.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53159-Science-leads-to-wonderful-things?p=713889&viewfull=1#post713889

Ultimately I had a solution - remove the landing legs and use a pair of goo containers instead. They have an impact rating of 12 (same as legs) and are very wide when mounted horizontally so they work quite well. I'm planning an unmanned Eve mission that will use an upgraded version of them.

Edit: here is a sneak peak from the VAB showing the mark 2 interplanetary science pod (attached to side of Eve Explorer), now with rechargable batteries, a better parachute system and a reorganized instrument panel on the side. The 2nd goo container, thermometer and barometer serve 2 purposes: To balance weight for the single burn deorbit boosters and to store extra data during descent so that it can be sent at a more relaxed pace on the ground where the batteries can recharge between transmissions. The extra goo container also forms the landing legs.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Dave Kerbin

[Mephane]

That design is pure genius, I love it. I was also thinking about using drop-pods to bring science to the surface of some of the planets, I might try out your idea, too.

[numerobis]

I had some fun placing one goo container on top of a Stayputnik probe.

1. Look at the probe from above,

2. Turn off rotation snapping,

3. Find the seam in the texture on the probe,

4. Get a goo container,

5. Follow that seam until the goo container starts to spin,

6. Click to place.

If you do this with enough skill (it took me a few tries) you can get the goo container precariously balanced on top of the Stayputnik.

A warning, if you're going to land on Eve: the goo container has low drag. Putting it on top of a low-mass probe with weak gyros means you *will* land on the goo container -- if you were planning on doing a retrograde burn, you'll be out of luck. Not that I have personal experience of this or anything.

[Dave Kerbin]

A warning, if you're going to land on Eve: the goo container has low drag. Putting it on top of a low-mass probe with weak gyros means you *will* land on the goo container -- if you were planning on doing a retrograde burn, you'll be out of luck. Not that I have personal experience of this or anything.

The probe's proper orientation is actually opposite to the probe core - the probe core is mounted upside down on the 'bottom' of the pod. In order to make a retrograde burn to deorbit I actually have to point the navball to prograde. The 2 sepratrons are fired with SAS turned on to fix any micro weight imbalance, then SAS is turned off to save power and the probe will naturally roll over to the correct landing orientation (navball faces retrograde) as it hits the thicker air thanks to the drag you mentioned. At the chosen altitude the XL parachute (the blue nose cone) is released and it lands on those impact resistant (12m/s) goo containers (in Kerbin's gravity and atmosphere landing speed is 3.9m/s with the new chute design).

Here it is after its 2km test drop at KSC

And here is the old mark 1 after it did a proper descent to Kerbin's tundra as part of the biome exploration mission (4 pods released from one ship, ship then makes seperate landing)

[nhnifong]

If you simply consider repeated transmissions CHEATING, which is totally reasonable, then it's actually a good idea to bring more than one.

[SRV Ron]

A pair on a web girder below the capsule works quite well.

They can also be mounted on the capsule in a pair with enough space so Jeb can do an EVA report.

[Andrew Hansen]

Actually you get the same amount of total science whether you transmit or not. It just takes more transmissions than recoveries. In other words if you have the electricity to support it, it is always good to do transmissions.

Yes, you're right. Perhaps I should have clarified. I mean that after I transmit, I still like to bring back the science containers. Because even after you've transmitted until you no longer gain any more science, you can still gain extra by bringing the containers back to Kerbin.

[kurja]

I noticed that a goo container weighs almost exactly as much as two RTGs, and as we actually need electricity now there's real use for those too. A goo container weighs .15 and and an RTG weighs .08 so you'll have just 0.01 left to balance - add two of the smaller sensors (0.005 each) and you're done =D

[TheReaper]

bring 2 without symetry , so they will be 2 different goo containers, remember to place them at exact opposite sitess as you can MANUELLY, this way you will blance the craft and get twice more data, i just make a action group 1 full of sciences, i press 1 and everything works, tons of science just buy pressing 1 and transmitting, i made 3500 science without leaving kerbin's system and its moons

[HeadHunter67]

If you simply consider repeated transmissions CHEATING, which is totally reasonable,

Why would continued analysis be "cheating"? What's "reasonable" about thinking that a sample only yields information when studied once?

Better tell NASA to leave those Martian rovers alone - wouldn't want them to keep "cheating".

[Atheu]

Yes, you're right. Perhaps I should have clarified. I mean that after I transmit, I still like to bring back the science containers. Because even after you've transmitted until you no longer gain any more science, you can still gain extra by bringing the containers back to Kerbin.

well i've got bill stuck in kerbol orbit with no chance in the world of getting back to kerbin, unless he manages to get flung by eve.

[maltesh]

Literally, I mean.

At some point I considered the radially mounted parachute, but then the craft would fall over upon touch back on Kerbin, with the risk of breaking stuff, too (plus it is awkward). If I mount the goo container on top of the capsule, I have no good place for the parachute, because you cannot attach stuff to the goo container because of the way it operates.

Use the radial-mounted parachute to balance, if necessary, but attach the module with a decoupler or docking port, and disconnect it to handle its own landing when the chutes pop.

[Skorpychan]

Actually you get the same amount of total science whether you transmit or not. It just takes more transmissions than recoveries. In other words if you have the electricity to support it, it is always good to do transmissions.

So, I don't ACTUALLY have to return things? I can just leave stuff out there without needing to get it back?

[blizzy78]

So, I don't ACTUALLY have to return things? I can just leave stuff out there without needing to get it back?

That is correct.