[1.1.2] Station Science (v2.0: New models by SpeedyB)

[Empiro]

More science maybe, but I prefer the current system of a single experiment giving you all the science. The older versions had repeatable experiments, but it was tedious and unnecessary because you'd just take along 5 experiment pods.

[ethernet]

On another topic: Did I read the CLS thread correctly and you are going to include a connected living spaces config in the next update? I had to hack it in myself after I discovered my science station was split into three parts instead of one. o.0 I can post the simple config if anyone wants it.

Yeah, I will be doing this soon.

Confirmed. A setting has been removed to make this happens in the cfg files it seems...

For those, part of the point is that you're supposed to return the Bioproducts to the surface. Removing the Science via EVA would defeat that.

I so agree with you the investment on building a station to the reward is not in par, each experiment should have at least three different contracts and pay more

I'm not sure what you mean by "different contracts". You can currently get an unlimited number of contracts for a given experiment at a given location.

I'd have to agree.

When you can do a single "test a 404 jet engine at 21000" that gives 135 science points, in a ten minute period, sure beats the hell out of building a complex space station weighing in at a couple hundred tons to make 60 science. OK once the station is build, you can keep using it. But a launch to get back about the same as a test engine contract is still a bit short.

Yeah, I know about this. My belief is that those contracts give excessive Science rewards. If I used those as a standard of Science per effort, you'd be done with the tech tree without leaving LKO.

Unfortunately, the stock game is still very poorly balanced. Which is OK for an alpha, but it means I can't really meaningfully balance Station Science.

What the stations need to do is generate continuous science but at a fairly slow rate. And we need some kind of reward for gathering the science. What I'd like to see eventually, is a have a flag pole for every planet and moon. And once you have put a flag on that surface and returned home, you get to fly that planet's or moon's flag on it's pole at KSC. Then we could take screen shots and brag. Kind of like a reward for getting Kerbals to all places in the solar system.

If we can't have that, then some kind of UFO ship could be given to use after completing everything. Some kind of high priced / hard to get reward.

Take a look at Interstellar. It has the continuous slow Science, and adds a bunch of stuff to the tree to work towards.

[Kowgan]

@Apollo13, @kaos and @Bothersome: I believe all of this has a purpose.

If I'm correct, the further away from Kerbin you do your experiments, the bigger ammount of science will be your reward. For example, I got a contract to do kuarqs experiments around Eve, and It's paying me over 1000 in science.

I believe not being able to repeat those experiments is to prevent us from getting easy science, endlessly.

On the flipside, according to the Version 1.2 changelog, yes, you can repeat experiments, and it will even pay you more each time you repeat those. But I -believe- you will need a new experiment capsule for each experiment.

Yeah, I know about this. My belief is that those contracts give excessive Science rewards. If I used those as a standard of Science per effort, you'd be done with the tech tree without leaving LKO.

Unfortunately, the stock game is still very poorly balanced. Which is OK for an alpha, but it means I can't really meaningfully balance Station Science.

Agreed. Hence my struggling discussion above on how to find the best way to finally leave Kerbin SOI. I like the level of difficulty you've put on the mod.

As for the ship discussion, thanks everyone for your answers. I guess I've made my decision and will attach a big ship together at Kerbin orbit, and fly it all at once. The only thing that bugs me is this picture of some separated parts flying over Duna, as posted by Ethernet on the OP. That would go against of what I'd consider more efficient and plausible. But it's up to me to find out.

[madsailor]

I've not been able to reproduce these problems. I accepted a contract, launched a new craft with the proper pod, and the first requirement checked off. Then I quicksaved/quickloaded, and the check box remained. Then I went the space center and back, and the check box was checked once again.

If you can reproduce this consistently, please do the following:

1) Accept a contract, launch the craft. Then do a quicksave. Set this quicksave aside.

2) Either load the quicksave, or go to the space center and back

3) Make another quicksave with the box now unchecked.

Quit KSP, and zip up the two quicksaves, and your KSP.log.

I have been having this problem with the addition of launched, completed and recovered experiments failing to complete the contract.

KSP 0.24.2 and the latest Station Science from the link at the beginning of this thread.

I have zipped up a series of quicksaves along with ksp log at: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lyggkdeu8hm0ed0/SS%20Career%20Saves.zip?dl=0

The Procedure:

1)Accept contract and launch experiment, contract status 'launched' checked; quicksave 1

2)Change focus to another craft in orbit, contract status 'launched' unchecked; quicksave 2

3)Change focus back to station/experiment, contract status 'launched' re-checked; quicksave 3

4)Complete and finalize experiment, contract status 'launched' and 'complete' checked; quicksave 4

5)Land experiment back at KSC, contract status 'launched' and 'complete' checked 'recover' unchecked; quicksave 5

6)Switch to tracking station and recover vessel, contract still active and all objectives unchecked; quicksave 6

Hopefully the play-by-play quicksaves can help you sort out the issue. Thanks for a great mod....it's nice to have useful space stations.

[jordanjay29]

Unfortunately, the stock game is still very poorly balanced. Which is OK for an alpha, but it means I can't really meaningfully balance Station Science.

Agreed, but it's a similar issue to one I'm having. I'm having trouble leaving Kerbin's SOI because I don't have powerful-enough equipment to do it. I can get a small science station in orbit, but then it becomes useless after one experiment (plant) since I don't have the funds or engines to lift the heavier components into orbit. If I could repeat the small experiments in Kerbin's SOI a few times, I could unlock the better engines which would allow me to head to Duna or Eve and fulfill contracts there.

That's just my playstyle, though. I know there are ways around it, but I like modeling the LEO science progress in KSP.

[Bothersome]

And that is the crux of the problem isn't it. No reward for doing science except unlocking the better tools to get the science.

We need the tools earlier in the game (SO WE CAN USE THEM WHILE WE PLAY) and a reward of something else for completing the tree AND doing something very hard with those tools (like plant flags on planets and moons).

[ethernet]

6)Switch to tracking station and recover vessel, contract still active and all objectives unchecked; quicksave 6

Hopefully the play-by-play quicksaves can help you sort out the issue. Thanks for a great mod....it's nice to have useful space stations.

I'm fairly positive of the problem: I always recover from the landed vessel itself, so that's the only way I thought to test. Recovery from the space center would fail, because the first two are only checked if your current vessel meets the requirements (to make it clear that you've got the right pod on the vessel you're flying).

Try loading quicksave 5, use the recover button on the altimeter, and it should work. I'll look into fixing the recovery from space center.

Agreed, but it's a similar issue to one I'm having. I'm having trouble leaving Kerbin's SOI because I don't have powerful-enough equipment to do it. I can get a small science station in orbit, but then it becomes useless after one experiment (plant) since I don't have the funds or engines to lift the heavier components into orbit. If I could repeat the small experiments in Kerbin's SOI a few times, I could unlock the better engines which would allow me to head to Duna or Eve and fulfill contracts there.

That's just my playstyle, though. I know there are ways around it, but I like modeling the LEO science progress in KSP.

But you can repeat the small experiments unlimited times. Just look for the corresponding contracts. You can reject contracts you don't want for an instant replacement.

Also, bear in mind that even without Station Science, it's entirely possible to unlock the entire tech tree without ever leaving Kerbin SOI. Mun and Minmus biomes are more than enough.

Edited September 8, 2014 by ethernet

[veldril]

Hi I have a problem with the contract of the mod.

It seems like the mod does not track contract progression at all. Like I have a contract for Experment: Plant Growth around Kerbin orbit, when I launch a vehicle with both the experiment and science-lab, the contract would remain uncheck for the launching the experiment part. And when I finished the experiment and brought the result back to Kerbin, I tried to retrieve the vessel (through vessel recovery button at the top of the screen) and I didn't get any reward or progression at all. Is there anyway to fix this problem? If you have already provided the solution before, please link me to that post.

Thank you in advance!!!

[Nori]

So when a contract says to bring the results back to Kerbin does that include transmitting?

I launched a largish station into orbit with one of each experiment. Quite a few days later I finish the results. Trying to transmit makes the experiment inoperable which is fine. So I launched a recovery mission. Upon taking the experiments via EVA the experiments again say they will become inoperable.

Am I doing something wrong?

Lastly, I had a contract for experiments around Kerbin but when I brought them back with the aforementioned EVA recovery it didn't not mark the contract as complete. Did I miss some step?

[ethernet]

Hi I have a problem with the contract of the mod.

It seems like the mod does not track contract progression at all. Like I have a contract for Experment: Plant Growth around Kerbin orbit, when I launch a vehicle with both the experiment and science-lab, the contract would remain uncheck for the launching the experiment part. And when I finished the experiment and brought the result back to Kerbin, I tried to retrieve the vessel (through vessel recovery button at the top of the screen) and I didn't get any reward or progression at all. Is there anyway to fix this problem? If you have already provided the solution before, please link me to that post.

Thank you in advance!!!

No idea why the first one isn't getting checked. Please send me a quicksave from after launching that new experiment pod.

So when a contract says to bring the results back to Kerbin does that include transmitting?

No. The contract specifies to bring the pod itself back to Kerbin, with the results. This also excludes the EVA recovery of the results you did.

I launched a largish station into orbit with one of each experiment. Quite a few days later I finish the results. Trying to transmit makes the experiment inoperable which is fine. So I launched a recovery mission. Upon taking the experiments via EVA the experiments again say they will become inoperable.

Am I doing something wrong?

No, that is standard. Any part (including in the stock game) that would be rendered inoperable by transmission, is also made inoperable if you pull from it in EVA.

Like those parts, the experiment pods can be restored by a Mobile Processing Lab, but there's not really much reason to do that. The expectation is you'll bring the pods up as needed, then bring them back down.

[Nori]

No idea why the first one isn't getting checked. Please send me a quicksave from after launching that new experiment pod.

No. The contract specifies to bring the pod itself back to Kerbin, with the results. This also excludes the EVA recovery of the results you did.

No, that is standard. Any part (including in the stock game) that would be rendered inoperable by transmission, is also made inoperable if you pull from it in EVA.

Like those parts, the experiment pods can be restored by a Mobile Processing Lab, but there's not really much reason to do that. The expectation is you'll bring the pods up as needed, then bring them back down.

Ok that makes a long more sense. So attach all experiments via docking ports then. Good to know.

[veldril]

No idea why the first one isn't getting checked. Please send me a quicksave from after launching that new experiment pod.

Sure. Here is the save file:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36224297/KSP%20Save/Station%20Science%20Problem.sfs

The craft name is TEST Station Science something, which is the newest vessel launched. If you find anything, please tell me how to fix that.

Thank!

EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention earlier, I play with a lot of mods, such as KW. For science & contracts mod, I have Fine Prints, Mission Controller Extended, and D Magic installed.

Edit 2: I digged out a little bit more of the safe file detail and I found something interesting. Station Science refer to target body in contract by the name of body (i.e. targetBody = Kerbin), while other mod use the number instead (i.e. for Kerbin; targetBody = 1). Might this be the cause of the problem? I will try it out when I have time later.

EDIT 3: So I experimented again and found the solution to my problem. Turned out that I can turn in the contract if I recover the experiment pod back. So the contract works so far. However, the contract would not update throughout the process. So it will go from 0 to complete and no update in between that got me confused whether it works or not.

Edited September 9, 2014 by veldril
more detail

[Hotblack Desiato]

I have a similar problem, with a slightly different situation: I use extraplanetary launchpads and produce the pod right at the minmus orbit station (where I produced most of the science station).

and I never realized, that the mission says: start that thing from kerbin.

any chance that you change the mission-behavior to stock-alike missions? do the test over there and bring the results back (or the pod)? I tested an engine over there, which I produced on minmus, and that worked quite fine

[Kowgan]

@Hotblack Desiato: But... Where do the kernimals come from?

[ethernet]

EDIT 3: So I experimented again and found the solution to my problem. Turned out that I can turn in the contract if I recover the experiment pod back. So the contract works so far. However, the contract would not update throughout the process. So it will go from 0 to complete and no update in between that got me confused whether it works or not.

Hmm, odd. Am looking into it. Thanks for the save file.

I have a similar problem, with a slightly different situation: I use extraplanetary launchpads and produce the pod right at the minmus orbit station (where I produced most of the science station).

and I never realized, that the mission says: start that thing from kerbin.

any chance that you change the mission-behavior to stock-alike missions? do the test over there and bring the results back (or the pod)? I tested an engine over there, which I produced on minmus, and that worked quite fine

The "launch a new pod" is to enforce that each contract is a round-trip "mission", emulating the kind of missions we do to the ISS, and you can't just stick a bunch on the station ahead of time, and deorbit them as needed.

I will look into the feasibility of counting in-situ production as "new launched".

[Hotblack Desiato]

more interestingly, today I used the other two pods anyways (I produced 3 of them)... and I was quite surprised of getting the mission done.

that leaves the weird question, why did it not work with this bio-kuarg experiment, but the other two worked just fine (I'll look up which experiments... I think it was prograde and animal comfort).

and regarding the "just stick a bunch on the station": I got the standard plant growth at kerbin... twice. the first time, I launched the station + some pods, did the experiment and retrieved it. then I got the same mission again, and did the experiment with the second pod, and it worked just fine again.

so there seems to be a situation that it counts sometimes, and sometimes it doesn't.

I have another round of pods on their way to minmus (launched from kerbin), let's see what happens. the techtree is virtually completed (only some minor nodes like the one with the kethane-engine) are still open, so science-points don't matter right now.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Hotblack Desiato

[chlue]

and regarding the "just stick a bunch on the station": I got the standard plant growth at kerbin... twice. the first time, I launched the station + some pods, did the experiment and retrieved it. then I got the same mission again, and did the experiment with the second pod, and it worked just fine again.

I think the landing (at least sometimes) triggers the "launch new vessel" part of the mission and now silence please before ethernet tries to fix this

[Hotblack Desiato]

hmmm, you mean that the craft lands and bounces a few times and that triggers the "launch new vessel"-message?

[Kowgan]

Hey, Ethernet. Quick question: By "Surface Samples", you mean that the Spectrometron can only analyze the soil samples that kerbals collect during their walks, or can it also analyze experiments made on planets/moons' surfaces?

[ethernet]

hmmm, you mean that the craft lands and bounces a few times and that triggers the "launch new vessel"-message?

That might be it. I'll look into it.

Hey, Ethernet. Quick question: By "Surface Samples", you mean that the Spectrometron can only analyze the soil samples that kerbals collect during their walks, or can it also analyze experiments made on planets/moons' surfaces?

Only soil samples.

[Kowgan]

Thank you, that explains a lot the troubles I've been having. It changes the gameplay considerably; I like it!

[AlonzoTG]

Hey, I have this issue. I have a 660 ton ship out at Minmus. I have already run through the science cycle twice on it. I get this contract to do a new experiment so I send it up with a cheap disposable taxi craft out to the big ship. (I've done this several times before with outstanding results). The taxi carries a little kibbal and the requested module and the most minimal return vehicle possible.

This time, I fire it up and get no eurekas. The lab says I have the normal production rate... I fired up one of the station's permanent experiments that I've used before, no eurekas. The kuarks worked just fine. My only guess is that Jeb (who is on board) was kerbaling with the wiring...

I am running this on a DMP server so you can witness this first hand. I just had a network device switched out so I may or may not be up and running. =\

[Jaxx]

How do you complete the Creature Comforts experiment???? I've got full eurekas/bio but it keeps saying it's not finalized when i got to detach it? The deploy button doesn't do anything either...

[chlue]

How do you complete the Creature Comforts experiment???? I've got full eurekas/bio but it keeps saying it's not finalized when i got to detach it? The deploy button doesn't do anything either...

For me all experiments got a "finalize results"-button while still attached to the station. You have to press this button before releasing the experiment return craft. If you get said message after undocking its basically a warning that you have just screwed up. I don't know if you can dock again to finalize it correctly or if you need to quickload/send a new experiment.

[Noio]

An idea:

I think it would be pretty groovy if there was a way to convert kerbal-komestibles (TAC food, snacks!, &c) into kibbal at some cost - electricity, water, high-quality tequila...something...

It would be nice to have the choice to generate some kibbal from other resources when the local Snack & Gulp is a few gigameters away.