[Carrer]: Electricity in low tech

[0x7be]

Hello.

I wonder how do you people handle electricity before solar panels or nuclear generators are discovered.

I've tried a munar mission and it was near disaster because my electicity ran out when I was about to land on surface.

And I didn't do any transmission to Krbin, it instantly would have run my battaries dry.

Meanwhile I read about lads spamming science over radio in tremedous amounts. How?!

[Rockstar04]

Guts spamming science would have had to unlocked solar and batteries (that happens pretty early), but for super early missions, I have seen guys use multiple mk1 command pods as makeshift batteries, just disable the torque on them.

[RexKramer]

Here's how I approached the issue.

Until you have batteries and solar panels, antennas are nearly useless. I stopped equipping rockets with antennas without batteries. Even with batteries, it's difficult to manage power without solar panels. You just have to bring the ship back home to collect data.

Also, don't use the small LV-909 engine- it doesn't produce power to recharge batteries. The bigger LV-T30 and LV-T45 engines will recharge the batteries while they are running. Try not to run your batteries dry before your next big burn...

Finally, conserve battery power. Using SAS torque to control attitude uses electricity, so be careful with your adjustments. Running the automatic attitude control uses even more power.

I haven't tried the solution of adding command pods, but I imagine this would work fairly well. Seems clunky to me, but if it works then why not?

[AmpsterMan]

A stayputnik probe uses about 0.5 e/min. A flyby of Mun can take anywhere from 6-9 hours (can't remember which)

6 hr * 60 min/hr * 0.5 e/min =180 e

9 hr * 60 min/hr * 0.5 e/min = 270 e

Goo Transmission = 10 mits

Sci. Jr. = 25 mits

Long antena= 5 e/mit

Therefore, assuming you are able to plot a collision course with Mun, and you have both science experinents on board, if you do both experiments twice, one in outer space and one in near space your total energy cost for transmission is:

(10*2 + 25*2) mits * 5 e/mit = 350 e

Therefore the total budget in energy of a well executed Mun probe mission is

270+350=620

With 8 radial batteries you will have more than enough energy. Hope this helps

[Stargate525]

Ampster, how much have you budgeted for reaction wheel consumption?

[Oddible]

Don't transmit. And wait, how did you run out of battery without transmitting? Get rid of all that fancy crap like Reaction Wheels or SAS, keep it simple, small ship you don't need it. What was consuming your power? I sent a lander to Minimus and I think that netted me 360 science with the Crew report and EVA report from the surface, the soil sample, and 2 goo samples, no transmissions, all returned to Kerbin, in this ship:

[HeadHunter67]

Most early engines have a fuel cell that generates electricity while running. Transmit only while burning and only if you're sure you'll have enough power to finish the job.

Extra capsules can function as primitive batteries, but also as primitive reaction wheels for torque and command authority.

[zanzibar196]

That ship has fuel lines... which, is pretty advanced... I think fuel lines are at the same spot the 1st solar panel tech is... What did you do before you had fuel lines?

[Skorpychan]

Before I unlocked solar panels, and batteries, I basically just chucked missions up, spammed science while up there, and landed before the crew report transmissions drained the pod. I also transmitted like CRAZY while the engines were running and providing power.

With batteries but no panels, I spammed batteries.

Then I unlocked solar panels, and things were fine.

There's plenty of science you can do on and around the kerbin system, without needing to land on anything other than kerbin. Use that to unlock batteries and panels. I did a bunch of stuff around kerbin, then went out to the Mun, and then Minimus.

[Surimi]

Given the number of biomes on Kerbin, I find it's not too difficult to get enough science for electricity without having to leave low Kerbin orbit. Sending tiny manned capsules to places like the desert and the polar ice caps can get you a lot of science, as can landing in the sea. Even the launchpad counts as a separate biome! Granted, it may mean sacrificing other things which may be useful, like decent engines, but it will allow you to get to Munar orbit which will give you your next big chunk of science to upgrade further.

[AmpsterMan]

Ampster, how much have you budgeted for reaction wheel consumption?

Before I launch I turn off the reaction wheels on my pod/probe core. My trans munar injection (TMI) stage has a reaction wheel. The only times it os ever used are:

1: When maintaining heading to reach orbit

2: When changing/maintaining heading during TMI

3: When adjusting desired trajectory to Mun encounter.

Of those, only the last two ever use energy, and it is always miniscule at best. Therefore, the 180 extra are good enough to account for any course correcting or waiting for a TMI window

[Dr Grugon]

I like how you mounted the Goo containers...

[Oddible]

That ship has fuel lines... which, is pretty advanced... I think fuel lines are at the same spot the 1st solar panel tech is... What did you do before you had fuel lines?

Launchpad soil samples, EVA, crew report, recovered. Low atmosphere launch, crew report, parachute, recovered. Launch pad goo sample, soil sample, eva, crew, recovered. Low atmo goo and crew, recovered. High atmo goo and crew, recovered. Space goo and crew, eva, recovered. LKO goo and crew, eva, recovered. High Kerbin orbit, goo and crew, eva, recovered. Then did the same with the Science Jr.

Made a bee line for Fuel Systems to make efficient rockets with asparagus staging - like the one pictured. Added 2 more liquid boosters to do the flight and return from Mun. Without any transmitting I got 360 science from my Minimus return and 306 from my Mun return. (I went to Minimus first because landing is a breeze and I don't fine the intercept with its inclined orbit that much of an issue to deal with).

Then I sent this guy to drop probes on Duna, Eve, and Dres. It has 2 probes so I could put one in orbit around a moon and the other send to the surface. Later models both probes had parachutes.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Oddible

[AmpsterMan]

@oddible:

Funny how we both have taken completely different approaches; I tried to bum rush precision engineering and landing gear so I can pepper the moon with landing probes

[capi3101]

In the early going, if I decided to transmit, it was usually during the ascent (i.e. while my LV-30s were running). Once they were cut loose, no more transmissions. You should also turn off SAS and disable your pod torque; if you do a free-return trajectory burn that will take you back to Kerbin, you can do this right after the burn's done, coast all the way up to the Mün, do your science while you're still in the Mün's SOI and bring all the science back with you. You can even do an EVA or two. Thing is, by shutting off torque and SAS, you have nothing in your pod that uses electricity. You can save it all for the landing.

I did make a beeline for Science Tech and Electrics - I have those now, and power is no longer an issue for me.