[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[*Aqua*]

Also, is it normal to burn up before the ablative shield is worn down?

It can happen. Ablation can only transfer a limited "amount" of heat away. If you're heating up faster than that you'll burn up.

[Starwaster]

Thanks. I looked, and I've been editing Custom.cfg. Although I do have to say that debug menu is nice to test settings without reloading constantly.

I'm glad to see the shockwaveExponent finally set in HardSettings.cfg. I had to copy all the values into Custom.cfg and change it.

Besides, I tweaked those even. I changed temperatureExponent to 1.50. That allows me to fully reenter in that orbit from the Mun, by setting my reentry altitude to 38-40k (I use FAR). Before I had to enter at above 40k, or else I'd burn up, but then I'd 'skip' out and have to make another round.

Also, is it normal to burn up before the ablative shield is worn down?

Using the Mk1 pod, I would burn up between 40-43k if I had the pe set to 38k (coming from Mun), yet the ablative shield only used about 3 units (247/250). Temperature at disintegration was 1166C. I tried angling the pod, and letting the air take it. Hence the change above. IIRC, reentry speed was about 3.2km/s.

I thought the point of the shield was to take the heat away from the pod, at least until it was gone?

If I reenter with my modified settings above, I still only use about 3-5 units of the shield. If I use the original, and 'skip' out, I use about 2-3 more units.

It seems like 250 is overkill for the pod then.

It sounds like something is wrong. You should be using more shielding than that and you shouldn't be burning up. (the whole point of ablation is that the shield carries away heat with it. An analogy I like to use is boiling water in a paper cup. Water boils at less than half of paper's ignition point so as long as there is water in the cup, it doesn't burn)

Post your custom.cfg file so I can see what changes you made.

And, you might also want to consider trying the beta that I posted a few pages back. (or check the first post, it's linked there)

[Phoenix84]

It sounds like something is wrong. You should be using more shielding than that and you shouldn't be burning up. (the whole point of ablation is that the shield carries away heat with it. An analogy I like to use is boiling water in a paper cup. Water boils at less than half of paper's ignition point so as long as there is water in the cup, it doesn't burn)

Post your custom.cfg file so I can see what changes you made.

And, you might also want to consider trying the beta that I posted a few pages back. (or check the first post, it's linked there)

I'll try the beta. Thanks.

Here's my Custom.cfg:

@REENTRY_EFFECTS[Easy]:Final
{
	@shockwaveExponent = 1
	@shockwaveMultiplier = 1
	@heatMultiplier = 20
	@startThermal = 750
	@fullThermal = 1150
	@afxDensityExponent = 0.9
	@temperatureExponent = 1
	@densityExponent = 0.9
	@gToleranceMult = 6
	@parachuteTempMult = 0.5
	@crewGKillChance = 0.01
	@crewGClamp = 10
	@crewGPower = 4
	@crewGMin = 10
	@crewGWarn = 450000
	@crewGLimit = 900000
	@legacyAero = False
	@dissipationCap = True
	@useAlternateDensity = False
}
@REENTRY_EFFECTS[Default]:Final
{
	@shockwaveExponent = 1
	@shockwaveMultiplier = 1
	@heatMultiplier = 20
	@startThermal = 750
	@fullThermal = 1150
	@afxDensityExponent = 0.8
	@temperatureExponent = 1
	@densityExponent = 0.8
	@gToleranceMult = 6
	@parachuteTempMult = 0.25
	@crewGKillChance = 0.01
	@crewGClamp = 30
	@crewGPower = 4
	@crewGMin = 5
	@crewGWarn = 450000
	@crewGLimit = 900000
	@legacyAero = False
	@dissipationCap = True
	@useAlternateDensity = False
}
@REENTRY_EFFECTS[Hard]:Final
{
	@shockwaveExponent = 1.12
	@shockwaveMultiplier = 1
	@heatMultiplier = 1
	@startThermal = 750
	@fullThermal = 3000
	@afxDensityExponent = 0.6
	@temperatureExponent = 1.5
	@densityExponent = 0.6
	@gToleranceMult = 6
	@parachuteTempMult = 0.25
	@crewGKillChance = 0.01
	@crewGClamp = 30
	@crewGPower = 4
	@crewGMin = 5
	@crewGWarn = 225000
	@crewGLimit = 450000
	@legacyAero = False
	@dissipationCap = True
	@useAlternateDensity = True
}

Edited January 23, 2015 by Phoenix84

[Starwaster]

I'll try the beta. Thanks.

Here's my Custom.cfg:

Hmmmm, offhand I'm not sure why you'd be having so much trouble. I don't see anything wrong on cursory inspection. Not for a stock reentry.

Though I usually come in steeper than you were (20 or less instead of 40)

In fact you should be able to set periapsis to 0 (targeting the horizon) and be ok on stock Kerbin. Your survivable reentry corridor is a little broader than it would be if you were using RSS with fullsized Kerbin or Earth.

For the beta version, just keep all multipliers and exponents at 1, instead of densityExponent. I'm still playing with that locally to make sure it's playable and fun but challenging. For Default I suggest 0.5 or 0.6

If you do your reentries right that's survivable and unshielded parts will burn up.

(really challenging is 0.35..... things WILL burn up but still make for a survivable reentry if you come in right)

[Phoenix84]

Hmmmm, offhand I'm not sure why you'd be having so much trouble. I don't see anything wrong on cursory inspection. Not for a stock reentry.

Though I usually come in steeper than you were (20 or less instead of 40)

In fact you should be able to set periapsis to 0 (targeting the horizon) and be ok on stock Kerbin. Your survivable reentry corridor is a little broader than it would be if you were using RSS with fullsized Kerbin or Earth.

For the beta version, just keep all multipliers and exponents at 1, instead of densityExponent. I'm still playing with that locally to make sure it's playable and fun but challenging. For Default I suggest 0.5 or 0.6

If you do your reentries right that's survivable and unshielded parts will burn up.

(really challenging is 0.35..... things WILL burn up but still make for a survivable reentry if you come in right)

I am using FAR, if that makes a difference (I read it can).

What I would like is (what I believe to be realistic, but I could be wrong) to be able to come in and, depending on how fast my velocity is at that point, burn off my heat shield. Assuming I don't exceed the temp limit of the shield itself, then then hotter temp would obviously burn away shielding faster. If I'm still too hot when the shield fails, then my pod disintegrates.

Does that sound about right? I think that's how the mod is supposed to work.

With the Mk1 pod and its integrated heat shield, would the shield's temp be different from the pod, and if so is there a way to see the shield's temp? If not, then could I be exceeding the pods temp (of 1250), and that's what's causing disintegration?

Edited January 23, 2015 by Phoenix84

[stryker2279]

Is ther a way to make it so that heat shields are overpowered? It would be cool to have a way to make it so that if you have a heat shield you'll basically be fine but if you don't then you'll be porked. My thought is this; I like the idea of needing a heat shield, but I still want to use mechjebs auto land function, which we all know is very aggro when it comes to reentry, but I love it's accuracy and consistency. That way I can land without fear of death(with shield) but still get the joy of de orbiting space stations and other junk

[NathanKell]

Starwasper ( ), lextacy asked for a realistic config. I told her/him what would happen with a realistic config. :]

(realism != hard, folks, why is this difficult to understand?)

[Starwaster]

I am using FAR, if that makes a difference (I read it can).

What I would like is (what I believe to be realistic, but I could be wrong) to be able to come in and, depending on how fast my velocity is at that point, burn off my heat shield. Assuming I don't exceed the temp limit of the shield itself, then then hotter temp would obviously burn away shielding faster. If I'm still too hot when the shield fails, then my pod disintegrates.

Does that sound about right? I think that's how the mod is supposed to work.

With the Mk1 pod and its integrated heat shield, would the shield's temp be different from the pod, and if so is there a way to see the shield's temp? If not, then could I be exceeding the pods temp (of 1250), and that's what's causing disintegration?

Looking at your config some more, you've got it on Hard right? Turn off Alternate Density Calc. Some of your other settings will produce inconsistent results with that. Really it was something I intended to be able to make a good config with RSS, but it's too easy to mess things up with it

Using Settings Menu / Debug Menu, set them up as follows:

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Starwasper ( ), lextacy asked for a realistic config. I told her/him what would happen with a realistic config. :]

(realism != hard, folks, why is this difficult to understand?)

I interpret Realistic to mean hard. I think what I'm doing with 6.5.x will make it easier to do that.

The alternate heating model will allow things to incinerate even on a stock LKO orbit if unshielded. (on Default, that happens at around 30km. On Hard it should happen sooner like ~50km. Earlier if you're lowering max temps in RO)

The shield SHOULD survive very hot reentries even with RSS if the alternate dissipation cap is on. (adds another key to the dissipation curve equal to its max temp that ramps the dissipation rate up drastically. It is STILL possible to overcome that extra dissipation key but not easily)

Finally, the ablation rate is also more easily controlled for any shield with the metric so that a max reentry time can be set.... 2.5 - 3 minutes for stock Kerbin SHOULD be enough....? about 10 minutes should be good for Earth.

Is ther a way to make it so that heat shields are overpowered? It would be cool to have a way to make it so that if you have a heat shield you'll basically be fine but if you don't then you'll be porked. My thought is this; I like the idea of needing a heat shield, but I still want to use mechjebs auto land function, which we all know is very aggro when it comes to reentry, but I love it's accuracy and consistency. That way I can land without fear of death(with shield) but still get the joy of de orbiting space stations and other junk

Not quite sure how to respond here..... you're already fine if you have shields and they're between you and the plasma outside your ship....engines.... I dunno, what do you want, shields on those too?

Edited January 23, 2015 by Starwaster

[*Aqua*]

I am using FAR, if that makes a difference (I read it can).

What I would like is (what I believe to be realistic, but I could be wrong) to be able to come in and, depending on how fast my velocity is at that point, burn off my heat shield. Assuming I don't exceed the temp limit of the shield itself, then then hotter temp would obviously burn away shielding faster. If I'm still too hot when the shield fails, then my pod disintegrates.

Does that sound about right? I think that's how the mod is supposed to work.

With the Mk1 pod and its integrated heat shield, would the shield's temp be different from the pod, and if so is there a way to see the shield's temp? If not, then could I be exceeding the pods temp (of 1250), and that's what's causing disintegration?

There's a limit how fast a shield can ablate. You can see that in the cfgs. For the small pod there are three values: 650°C - start of ablation; 1000°C - peak ablation (I think that's the point where the heat transfer is most efficient); 3000°C - max. ablation rate

For the small pod part temperature equals heat shield temperature.

1250°C part heat resistance could be the reason for disintegration.

[Phoenix84]

Looking at your config some more, you've got it on Hard right? Turn off Alternate Density Calc. Some of your other settings will produce inconsistent results with that. Really it was something I intended to be able to make a good config with RSS, but it's too easy to mess things up with it

Ah ok. I noticed it turned on automatically when I clicked the 'Hard' button in-game, so I kept it.

[SparkyFox]

I have a bug

when i deorbit a craft, another craft i have in orbit takes damage

like this

horizon IV deorbiting

i hear stuff exploding and i press f3

the list says turbo engine burned up and structural intake burned up

[Horizon IV DOES NOT have any of those parts] after landing i switch to my typhoon thats in a much higher orbit

the typhoon has its turbo engine and structural intake missing

[Phoenix84]

I have a bug

when i deorbit a craft, another craft i have in orbit takes damage

like this

horizon IV deorbiting

i hear stuff exploding and i press f3

the list says turbo engine burned up and structural intake burned up

[Horizon IV DOES NOT have any of those parts] after landing i switch to my typhoon thats in a much higher orbit

the typhoon has its turbo engine and structural intake missing

That's sounds like the launchpad bug. Do you still have parts (like clamps) on the launch pad?

[SparkyFox]

That's sounds like the launchpad bug. Do you still have parts (like clamps) on the launch pad?

Nope, wait lemme double check, the last rocket i launched was a supply rocket to refuel my typhoon and i did have 2 typhoons docked but i sent one home and it landed no where near ksc

nope definently no clamps anywhere

Edited January 23, 2015 by SparkyFox

[Rebelgamer]

The beta is definitely more dangerous than previously, just disintegrated a mk1-2 3 man pod on a 3.5km/s reentry with a pre-atmosphere pe of 40km, craft disintegrated before it reached 42km. The heat shield burned through the ablative material like crazy. Improvement over previously when I could pull off 6-7km/s 40km aerobrakes and only burn off 10-20 units of ablative, no more deep dives.

[SparkyFox]

The beta is definitely more dangerous than previously, just disintegrated a mk1-2 3 man pod on a 3.5km/s reentry with a pre-atmosphere pe of 40km, craft disintegrated before it reached 42km. The heat shield burned through the ablative material like crazy. Improvement over previously when I could pull off 6-7km/s 40km aerobrakes and only burn off 10-20 units of ablative, no more deep dives.

I can land my mk3 shuttle just fine, its all im the angle

- - - Updated - - -

Nope, wait lemme double check, the last rocket i launched was a supply rocket to refuel my typhoon and i did have 2 typhoons docked but i sent one home and it landed no where near ksc

nope definently no clamps anywhere

can anyone help me out please

[Starwaster]

can anyone help me out please

Need to see your output_log.txt file (or player.log if Mac/Linux)

See this thread if you're not sure how to find that

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/92229-How-To-Get-Support-%28READ-FIRST%29

And the save file too.

But honestly though I have no idea. It doesn't sound like a DRE specific issue. If KSP says those parts were on that vehicle then as far as DRE is concerned they're on the vehicle. Only way I can see is if the save file is corrupted or something. Was one vehicle ever docked with the other?

[SparkyFox]

Need to see your output_log.txt file (or player.log if Mac/Linux)

See this thread if you're not sure how to find that

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/92229-How-To-Get-Support-%28READ-FIRST%29

And the save file too.

But honestly though I have no idea. It doesn't sound like a DRE specific issue. If KSP says those parts were on that vehicle then as far as DRE is concerned they're on the vehicle. Only way I can see is if the save file is corrupted or something. Was one vehicle ever docked with the other?

both typhoons were docked to each other, horizon wasnt

[lextacy]

Need to see your output_log.txt file (or player.log if Mac/Linux)

See this thread if you're not sure how to find that

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/92229-How-To-Get-Support-%28READ-FIRST%29

And the save file too.

But honestly though I have no idea. It doesn't sound like a DRE specific issue. If KSP says those parts were on that vehicle then as far as DRE is concerned they're on the vehicle. Only way I can see is if the save file is corrupted or something. Was one vehicle ever docked with the other?

Actually what I think hes trying to say is decoupled crafts still register. I have the same problem (not really a problem) . If my rover aero capsule separates from the MSL stage....I will be hearing explosions from that MSL stage during re-entry PLUS it will register in the F3 flight log. Not really a bug , however I wanted to set the record straight lol

EDIT! THERES A BETA?! Well forget everything I said about a realistic config I will try the new default for HARD and see if I can get more consistent roasting times HAHAHA

Edited January 24, 2015 by lextacy

[Astraph]

OK, sorry to add to the spam, but I'm really confused.

I'm using latest DRE release (not the beta) + FAR, stock Kerbin. I've set the setting to hard and all those modifiers to 1-1-1.2-20, as in here:

Are there optimal stats or not? You're giving all those parameters back and forth and I've become confused which should be applied to which configuration ^^'

[*Aqua*]

You heat shield is still clipped inside. No matter what numbers you use, it won't work correctly.

[Astraph]

Yeah, yeah, I know. It's an old screen, I didn't have time to test a corrected version. I just want to confirm my settings are OK

[SparkyFox]

Actually what I think hes trying to say is decoupled crafts still register. I have the same problem. If my rover aero capsule separates from the MSL stage....I will be hearing explosions from that MSL stage during re-entry PLUS it will register in the F3 flight log. Not really a bug , however I wanted to set the record straight lol

EDIT! THERES A BETA?! Well forget everything I said about a realistic config I will try the new default for HARD and see if I can get more consistent roasting times HAHAHA

thats exactly what im trying to say, even ships that havent been docked to the craft thats coming back home get damaged aswell

still need my output log?

Edited January 24, 2015 by SparkyFox

[Starwaster]

thats exactly what im trying to say, even ships that havent been docked to the craft thats coming back home get damaged aswell

still need my output log?

Yes!!! How am I supposed to know what's happening to you?

I haven't the first clue.

Now look what you made me do. You made me italicize stuff. Italicizing stuff leads to bold facing. Boldfacing leads to Comic Sans. Nobody wants that.

@Astraph, I have to go have coffee then medicate some cats then breakfast. After that I'm going to handcraft some files for you which I'll then send you a link to. Don't edit any settings in them.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Starwaster

[Drew Kerman]

Italicizing stuff leads to bold facing. Boldfacing leads to Comic Sans.

Comic Sans leads to... suffering.

[SparkyFox]

Yes!!! How am I supposed to know what's happening to you?

I haven't the first clue.

Now look what you made me do. You made me italicize stuff. Italicizing stuff leads to bold facing. Boldfacing leads to Comic Sans. Nobody wants that.

@Astraph, I have to go have coffee then medicate some cats then breakfast. After that I'm going to handcraft some files for you which I'll then send you a link to. Don't edit any settings in them.

ummmm....ok? Dont need to shout? *derps* i'll upload the log after i pick up something