[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[Hodo]

I just killed 63 kerbals in an airliner and it pulled a max of 3.5Gs in level flight. Maybe a slight bug. I will test more tomorrow, it was the first time I have had that happen.

[Zander]

@NathanKell

I think you should incapacitate kerbals over certain g's, like over 7 g's the crew cannot make any adjustments to the ship.

Also, Part g-tolerance is something that really needs to be fixed. I have parts exploding at 5-8 g's. First off, Instead of destroying the parts when their g-limit is reached, start breaking the connections of things attached to that part. Do radial connections first and then inline connections That will give a much more realistic effect. The part itself should only be destroyed if it overheats and burns up.

2nd: The G-tolerance of 5-8 is far too low. An F-16 can take 9 gs with no problem. any space craft should be able to take more.

great job with everything Nathan, you have done so much to make this game more enjoyable.

[Lucchese]

@NathanKell

I think you should incapacitate kerbals over certain g's, like over 7 g's the crew cannot make any adjustments to the ship.

That is such a great idea!

If its realism you want, realism will be given that way

One possible problem, are there avatars of sleeping Kerbals (I dont ever look at em so I wouldnt know )?

If not maybe some -signal lost- overlay to place over the avatar when the Kerbal goes out?

Some rand() function so that going out is random, or couple it to the Kerbals bravery level, the braver the longer it will take for them to pass out?

Oh so many ideas, I wish I knew C#.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Lucchese

[DeepOdyssey]

This mod doesn't affect anything for me. I can do almost vertical reentry on kerbin with a ship that has orange fuel tank, and 3 landers attached to it, without breaking it apart, kerbals dying etc.

It seems there are even less heat effects than in vanilla game.

I play stock game without any mods, and i wanted a harder experience, but right now i will wait for this mod to be fixed.

[AbeS]

That's because the vanilla game is too easy

[Hodo]

@NathanKell

I think you should incapacitate kerbals over certain g's, like over 7 g's the crew cannot make any adjustments to the ship.

2nd: The G-tolerance of 5-8 is far too low. An F-16 can take 9 gs with no problem. any space craft should be able to take more.

great job with everything Nathan, you have done so much to make this game more enjoyable.

Two things.

First, USAF fighter pilots are trained to work at 7-9Gs. So are USN Aviators.

Second, the F-16 can take 14Gs structurally, but is limited electronically to 9.5Gs to keep the pilot alive.

[Lexif]

And the Stardust sample return capsule encountered and survived a maximum of 38 g! Seriously, those comparisons are pretty arbitary. In reality, it's just a matter of designing your vessel for the expected forces. That's why I like the limit for Kerbals -- if they are like humans, there's only so much you can do to make them tolerate more force, providing some kind of reasonable hard limit.

[Guest]

Two things.

First, USAF fighter pilots are trained to work at 7-9Gs. So are USN Aviators.

Second, the F-16 can take 14Gs structurally, but is limited electronically to 9.5Gs to keep the pilot alive.

Also, keep in mind that those 14Gs are vertical Gs. This is the kind you encounter when you turn the plane, and they produce "flexing" force on the aircraft. Additionally, it has big, thin wings, which are a structural weak point. Now, a reenterting capsule is different. It experiences axial Gs, which produce a "compressing" force on the capsule. Find an aluminium rod and try to compress it along it's axis. Rather hard, isn't it? Now try to bend it. It should be much simpler. It's easier to resist axial Gs, both for humans and capsules. Sustained "eyeballs-in" acceleration is survivable up to around 15Gs, and in short bursts, you can do 20 or more. A 20G reentry would be harmful, but probably survivable if the capsule was recovered quickly and the crew given medical attention. They probably won't fly again, and might end up wheelchair-bound, but there's a chance of survival.

On a Viper, wings would indeed fall off if you tried to pull 14Gs, but if you somehow boosted it forward with that sort of acceleration, it could probably survive that, assuming rapid increase in lift wouldn't damage the wings.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Guest

[TheOrqwithVagrant]

Two things.

First, USAF fighter pilots are trained to work at 7-9Gs. So are USN Aviators.

To add a relevant fact to this, Al Shepard hit 11.6 G during reentry from his suborbital flight, and had manual control through this peak load; he didn't let the automatic control system take over until after he was past peak G. So though I do like the idea of the Kerbals becoming incapacitated above a certain G, the limit should be a lot higher than 7G. We already know Kerbals are a significantly more durable than humans just from the falls they can survive without any noticeable injury.

[Guest]

I'd give them 13 to 15G, as long as it's axial, of course. Remember, direction is the key. Human G-force tolerance can be as low as 4G if applied vertically. If blood is forced into the brain, it can rupture blood vessels there, which is pretty much instant death. It only happens when the G-force is pointed upwards relative to the pilot, though, and tolerances for other directions vary greatly. Sideways, it's about 9-11G, I think. Downwards, it's about 10, but it causes blackouts. Eyeballs-out is the second best direction, with 10-12G tolerance, while eyeballs-in is the best (that's why all rockets use it), giving something between 13-15G tolerance.

[FlowerChild]

It's incredibly easy because the reentry heating for Kerbin is roughly 1/4 Earth's.

Even if you increased the multiplier, you still wouldn't be changing the shockwave temperature, just how fast your part heats up to that temperature.

I can add a global multiplier, I guess? Maybe an exponent of ~ 1.15, that should yield roughly Earth level shockwave temperatures at reentry velocity while only increasing Mach 1 temps by about 100C

Quick question here Nathan:

The exponent you're referring to above, is it the one represented by the following line:

	@temperatureExponent = 1.03

In the current version's config file, or is it something that isn't actually in the plugin yet? Like the global multiplier you were considering adding above?

I'm a little confused how to get DR to work right with an otherwise stock game, or if that's even possible at present.

[NathanKell]

It's something that isn't in yet. I have to add it.

To get DRE to work with an otherwise stock game, just unzip it per the readme. It just won't be that hard.

Regarding Gs: I've set it up with roughly human tolerances for Kerbals, and much greater tolerance than ialdabaoth's version for parts. But if your parts are still breaking too quickly, you can up the G Tolerance multiplier. And if Kerbals are dying too fast you can either lower the exponent or up the kill threshold.

Again, all settings can be on-the-fly edited by hitting ALT+D+R and changing them, then hitting save.

Edited November 1, 2013 by NathanKell

[FlowerChild]

It's something that isn't in yet. I have to add it.

To get DRE to work with an otherwise stock game, just unzip it per the readme. It just won't be that hard.

Ah, fair enough. Thanks for the answer!

I was getting it to run just fine, I just couldn't get anything to burn up on reentry for the life of me, no matter how steep and fast I came into the atmosphere with no shielding. So yeah, at present beyond not being that hard, it basically has a non-existent impact on stock

I did manage to burn up (rather quickly) by setting temperatureExponent as high as 2.0, so I do know it's working.

[NathanKell]

Uploading.

v3 === \/

*Added two more tweakable variables: shockwaveExponent and shockwaveMultiplier. shockwaveExponent is applied to shockwave temperature after it's calculated; then the temperature is multiplied by shockwaveMultiplier. To simulate Earth-level heating, use shockwaveExponent = 1.17 (can't be perfect, but it's close: you get a max shockwave temperature of ~6150C on reentry, a bit low; and 11800C on Munar reentry, a bit higher than Apollo 10).

YOU WILL PROBABLY HAVE TO TWEAK YOUR HEATSHIELD DISSIPATION. Or you _will_ burn up.

[FlowerChild]

Uploading.

v3 === \/

Thanks a million for this man. Will give it a go.

[Tobyz28]

Uploading.

v3 === \/

*Added two more tweakable variables: shockwaveExponent and shockwaveMultiplier. shockwaveExponent is applied to shockwave temperature after it's calculated; then the temperature is multiplied by shockwaveMultiplier. To simulate Earth-level heating, use shockwaveExponent = 1.17 (can't be perfect, but it's close: you get a max shockwave temperature of ~6150C on reentry, a bit low; and 11800C on Munar reentry, a bit higher than Apollo 10).

YOU WILL PROBABLY HAVE TO TWEAK YOUR HEATSHIELD DISSIPATION. Or you _will_ burn up.

Hey Nathan, thanks for the update! What kind of settings should I use for FAR + Earth size kerbin for your mod? Having a very hard time tweaking it in game with Alt+D+R wouldnt mind some suggestions on where to start. I did the change listed above, however my rockets are now exploding on ascent lol (perhaps its my rocket not the mod!) any input is appreciated Love deadly re-entry, been using it since you first put it out

[Sentmassen]

Uploading.

v3 === \/

TWEAK YOUR HEATSHIELD DISSIPATION. Or you _will_ burn up.

So I'm unclear on what i should be adjusting to get this tweaked, is there a actual heatshield dissipation attribute? I'm also noticing shields overheating and exploding with their ablative shields intact which im confused by.

[Xyd]

Have a slight problem...

I uninstalled DRE because I thought it was causing me to crash now and again. After finding out that it wasn't this and reinstalling it, as I expected, the first parts are now locked away in a node that I already have unlocked. I'm not keen on starting a new game.

How do I unlock them? What settings do I need to change, possible?

[Lexif]

Have a slight problem...

I uninstalled DRE because I thought it was causing me to crash now and again. After finding out that it wasn't this and reinstalling it, as I expected, the first parts are now locked away in a node that I already have unlocked. I'm not keen on starting a new game.

How do I unlock them? What settings do I need to change, possible?

Just click on the part in the research tree and it will ask you if you want to research it, I think.

[Xyd]

Just click on the part in the research tree and it will ask you if you want to research it, I think.

Nah, not for a node that I've got unlocked already. Don't think it works for individual parts.

[Xyd]

Ooo, I take that back. It does work! Didn't know you could unlock individual parts, cool...

[redteddy23]

Have a slight problem...

I uninstalled DRE because I thought it was causing me to crash now and again. After finding out that it wasn't this and reinstalling it, as I expected, the first parts are now locked away in a node that I already have unlocked. I'm not keen on starting a new game.

How do I unlock them? What settings do I need to change, possible?

This happens when you add parts in the middle of a game. Just go to science building and click on the shaded part, after finding the correct node, then just buy the part. Presumabley in the future you will be earning money and have to pay to unlock parts before you can buy them to use them.

[Zander]

Hey Nathan, thanks for the update! What kind of settings should I use for FAR + Earth size kerbin for your mod? Having a very hard time tweaking it in game with Alt+D+R wouldnt mind some suggestions on where to start. I did the change listed above, however my rockets are now exploding on ascent lol (perhaps its my rocket not the mod!) any input is appreciated Love deadly re-entry, been using it since you first put it out

I agree, theres definitely something not right with shockwave exponent 1.17 my rockets are all burning up on launch now when hitting 800m/s at 10,000 m

Perhaps we need to change other settings for the earth scale kerbin along with the shockwave exponent?

(You can see in the screenshot, my fairings are half a second away from burning up, (The fire effects disappear in screen shots)

Edited November 1, 2013 by Zander

[Ratzap]

I agree, theres definitely something not right with shockwave exponent 1.17 my rockets are all burning up on launch now when hitting 800m/s at 10,000

Far too fast, far too low. The problem is your rocket not DRE. You have way too much TWR and you're wasting a ton of fuel launching that fast. Limit yourself to around 20 - 25 ms/2.

[Exposure]

Far too fast, far too low.

While 800 m/s may be pushing it a bit, since Kerbal rockets can be more durable compared to RL ones in my experience it seems like it should be a possible velocity. :/