[1.2] Real Solar System v12.0 Dec 8

[NathanKell]

Sax Man Aeronautics: huh. Have you checked in Alt-N, the cloud editor GUI?

UNSA: You're not ungrateful, no worries. And though you mention not liking to play with CFG files, well, all you need to do is change some values in RealSolarSystem.cfg and you'll have exactly that.

Which mods don't work btw? I'm always trying to add support in Realism Overhaul...

Re: kerbals. Starwaster, you're wrong pal.

At one point I was considering doing it myself, but then I lacked for time. If I get time, I'll see, unless (hopefully) someone beats me to it.

[Starwaster]

I'll just have to QUADRUPLE their cranium size then!!!!1111oneone

Muahahahaha!!

[Sax Man Aeronautics]

Sax Man Aeronautics: huh. Have you checked in Alt-N, the cloud editor GUI?

UNSA: You're not ungrateful, no worries. And though you mention not liking to play with CFG files, well, all you need to do is change some values in RealSolarSystem.cfg and you'll have exactly that.

Which mods don't work btw? I'm always trying to add support in Realism Overhaul...

Re: kerbals. Starwaster, you're wrong pal.

At one point I was considering doing it myself, but then I lacked for time. If I get time, I'll see, unless (hopefully) someone beats me to it.

No, but can you guide me through that?

[NathanKell]

Sax Man Aeronautics: Nope, not my mod. Never used the GUI. Ask on the thread for that mod?

[UNSA]

UNSA: You're not ungrateful, no worries. And though you mention not liking to play with CFG files, well, all you need to do is change some values in RealSolarSystem.cfg and you'll have exactly that.

Which mods don't work btw? I'm always trying to add support in Realism Overhaul...

Okay, I've spent the past few hours since I posted mercilessly hacking apart the RealSolaySystem.cfg files and I am SO CLOSE, but I must be missing something to restore the planets to their default settings, aside from their realistic orbits & positions. Particularly, all vehicles spawn floating inside Kerbin when taken from VAB/SPH. KSC itself looks fine from the outside building selection menu with everything appropriately scaled back. Any chance of getting some direction, or an example, of what I should be changing exactly?

If I can get it to work, I'd make available here so others can use it as a stepping stone to the full RSS.

As for what mods don't work on my end. Its mostly just RAM limit crashes, having to cut absolutely unessential parts. Also adjusting thrust levels to get my ass in orbit, as I probably dont have the greatest grasp of Realfuels honestly. I have several large mods (the usual suspects, plus anything that adds resource harvesting & logistics stuff), and running RSS and Overhaul, realfuels, etc everything that goes along with it seems to push it over the edge in my case. :/

Thanks! o7

edit: you should totally decapitate kerbals, they need some serious cranial reduction. Nothing worse that ricocheting off your spacecraft because your head didnt clear ladder. Reducing their head-size and just giving them a solid gold face shield could be a nice first step, Jebs' not the prettiest guy to stare at all day anyhow.

Edited January 11, 2014 by UNSA

[maccollo]

Holy crap, it's like launching from Eve O_o

I love it! Trying to build a rocket with stock parts that will allow me to land one Kerbal on the moon and return.

This mod totally revived KSP for me, not to mention Earth sized Kirbin looks much better from low orbit.

[Captain_Party]

Nathan, what coord system does KSC use? I want to move it to baikonours loc.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Captain_Party

[Starwaster]

Holy crap, it's like launching from Eve O_o

I love it! Trying to build a rocket with stock parts that will allow me to land one Kerbal on the moon and return.

This mod totally revived KSP for me, not to mention Earth sized Kirbin looks much better from low orbit.

Except that launching from eve is no longer like launching from eve!

It's nigh impossible now since its close to Venus conditions.

[saharashooter]

Except that launching from eve is no longer like launching from eve!

It's nigh impossible now since its close to Venus conditions.

Even more extreme is that the Eve atmosphere density is the one still in use! And that's only about 1/17 as thick as Venus (5.5/92)!

[Captain_Party]

You want some nice rocket? You come mine, we give good time, yes? Link in signature...

[Starwaster]

You want some nice rocket? You come mine, we give good time, yes? Link in signature...

Me Delta-V you long time?

[Starwaster]

Even more extreme is that the Eve atmosphere density is the one still in use! And that's only about 1/17 as thick as Venus (5.5/92)!

Yeah but there's more of it

I tried setting it to Venus density but (and this is explained by Ferram) there's a bug in how atmospheres are handled by KSP where at high altitudes density suddenly spikes. Really just before you're about to escape. It's like hitting a wall. I theorize that escape is still possible if you hit the wall at subsonic speeds but I can't even prove my own harebrained scheme without crashing and burning. At least the rocket was unmanned.

[ferram4]

Really, it's just that the atmosphere cuts off whenever the air pressure is 1e-6 times whatever sea level pressure is. So with Venus settings, that means that it cuts off at 0. So basically, you'll go from vacuum instantly to being in Earth's atmosphere at ~70km. At full orbital velocity. And it just gets denser from there, with no low-level braking above that.

Even with FAR, lifting off of Venus would be like Eve in stock KSP. Except your rocket will have to be aerodynamically stable through all of that. The Goddard Problem might actually be relevant in that case.

[DonLorenzo]

I´m completely loving this mod. I´ve started a career game with stock parts, this mod, deadly reentry and FAR and am trying to go places. So far it´s... hard! I´m making a video series of my exploits, have a look at that (link in signature) if you feel like chuckling at me (re)discovering KSP and rocketry

[foamyesque]

Really, it's just that the atmosphere cuts off whenever the air pressure is 1e-6 times whatever sea level pressure is. So with Venus settings, that means that it cuts off at 0. So basically, you'll go from vacuum instantly to being in Earth's atmosphere at ~70km. At full orbital velocity. And it just gets denser from there, with no low-level braking above that.

Even with FAR, lifting off of Venus would be like Eve in stock KSP. Except your rocket will have to be aerodynamically stable through all of that. The Goddard Problem might actually be relevant in that case.

If I was lifting off from Venus IRL I'd damn well use balloons if I could figure out a way to make balloons survive, y'know, the air.

Also I note that the changelog says solar panels are "fixed" but I'm getting essentially no power out of them in Duna orbit.

100Gm solar orbit: 7.16

140Gm solar orbit: 3.85

150Gm solar orbit: 2.96

180Gm solar orbit: 0.74

190Gm solar orbit: 0.29

This appears to be a linear function, not an inverse square.

[Starwaster]

Also I note that the changelog says solar panels are "fixed" but I'm getting essentially no power out of them in Duna orbit.

100Gm solar orbit: 7.16

140Gm solar orbit: 3.85

150Gm solar orbit: 2.96

180Gm solar orbit: 0.74

190Gm solar orbit: 0.29

This appears to be a linear function, not an inverse square.

Fixed means that they wont DRAIN electrical power at certain altitudes from the sun.

We're also limited to setting up power output as a curve defined by several key altitudes instead of being able to use an actual inverse square formula. However, the defined altitude key / power values match the Outputs that they would have at those altitudes. So, if you check the power at each of the orbital distances in the power curve they will be accurate. In between those keys will be less accurate. there are tangent parameters for the curve that are currently set to 0 since nobody is sure what they should be set to.... maybe 0 means they arent really curved.

[Ralathon]

Does anyone know how to fix surface collision detection? I've recently hit the point where the only thing I really need to get into orbit anymore is crew and enriched uranium (Thank you Kethane and EPL). So my first thought was to build a Skylon style SSTO ferry for crew and uranium. However, I've found that the inaccurate surface detection makes the runway so bumpy that my spaceplanes can barely land or start without losing wings. I can work around this by making VTOL vehicles, but that just doesn't have the same feel as a proper horizontally starting spaceplane, not to mention the extra weight for the VTOL equipment will cut into my payload fraction.

[Captain_Party]

Me Delta-V you long time?

It was supposed to be a seedy Russian dealer...

[foamyesque]

Fixed means that they wont DRAIN electrical power at certain altitudes from the sun.

We're also limited to setting up power output as a curve defined by several key altitudes instead of being able to use an actual inverse square formula. However, the defined altitude key / power values match the Outputs that they would have at those altitudes. So, if you check the power at each of the orbital distances in the power curve they will be accurate. In between those keys will be less accurate. there are tangent parameters for the curve that are currently set to 0 since nobody is sure what they should be set to.... maybe 0 means they arent really curved.

It doesn't match those though. My RSS power curve settings say:

powerCurve

{

key = 0E0 223.8E0 0 0

key = 5.79091E10 6.6736E0 0 0

key = 1.08208E11 1.9113E0 0 0

key = 1.49598261E11 1.0E0 0 0

key = 2.279391E11 0.431E0 0 0

key = 7.785472E11 0.037E0 0 0

key = 5.874E12 0E0 0 0

}

(curves that should cover the domain bolded). Per this stuff around 200Gm should have (very roughly) half of what it does at Kerbin and a quarter what it does at 100Gm-- but the actual in-game value I'm getting out is closer to 1/100th. It's almost as if it's using the stock KSP curve or something.

[Captain_Party]

Going into the settings file and manually adjusting the minDistance of Kerbin fixed it for me.

[NathanKell]

foamyesque, try deleting the trailing two 0s from each line and see if that helps.

[regex]

Nathan, what coord system does KSC use? I want to move it to baikonours loc.

I tried moving KSC around earlier and managed to fudge it into a -16 lat area on another continent but it's pretty tough to do. My advice: use smaller numbers than NathanKell is using and get an install of KSP with only a capsule for parts + RSS. Moving KSC around and fudging the coords is much easier when you're not loading tons of parts every time.

You also might look into how to move KSC's "flat-top" terrain area because the whole complex will float above the terrain.

[foamyesque]

foamyesque, try deleting the trailing two 0s from each line and see if that helps.

Fixed it. Thanks.

[NathanKell]

Captain_Party: as regex says it's wonky. The way it works is it's a vector from the center of the planet to where on the surface KSC will be placed (IIRC). You definitely need to move the flat area, and you might also have to mess with the various conform-to-terrain options for the PQSCity that is KSC.

[regex]

NathanKell, can you explain your thinking behind these values?

It looks like you're using the SSF (Scaled Space <something>) values based on atmosphere height, so that will have to be generated from surface height for planets without atmosphere. It's not hard to derive fairly adequate values for pretty much everywhere.

The PQS values, OTOH, are kind of a mystery. It seemed like you just upped the values. Did you do them "by feel"?

I can use the values below on a 6.4:1 Kerbin and they seem to be okay but I'd rather do it all procedurally through my spreadsheet and have it auto-generate for each planet. Thanks!

    SSFStart = 78000
    SSFEnd = 80000
    PQSfadeStart = 80000
    PQSfadeEnd = 100000
    PQSSecfadeStart = 80000
    PQSSecfadeEnd = 100000
    PQSdeactivateAltitude = 105000
    PQS
    {
        Kerbin
        {
            PQSMod_VertexSimplexHeightAbsolute // doubles
            {
                deformity = 1000 // 485
                persistence = 0.7 // 0.60000002384185791
                frequency = 36 //12 // 24
            }
            PQSMod_VertexHeightNoiseVertHeightCurve2 // floats
            {
                deformity = 6000 // 4000
                ridgedAddFrequency = 48 // 48
                ridgedSubFrequency = 32 // 32
                //ridgedAddOctaves = 8 // 6 INT
                simplexHeightStart = 400 // 800
                simplexHeightEnd = 7000 // 4600
            }
            PQSMod_VertexRidgedAltitudeCurve // floats
            {
                deformity = 1800 //1100 // 750
                ridgedAddFrequency = 140 // 25 // 140
                //ridgedAddOctaves = 8 // 3 INT
            }
            PQSMod_VertexHeightMap // doubles
            {
                heightMapDeformity = 7000 // 5000
            }
            PQSMod_AltitudeAlpha // doubles
            {
                atmosphereDepth = 6000 // 4000
            }
        }
        KerbinOcean
        {
            PQSMod_AerialPerspectiveMaterial // floats
            {
                atmosphereDepth = 7500 // 5000, scale height in m
            }
        }
    }