BSC: Albatross 3 - And the winner is...

[XolotlLoki]

Almost half-way through testing, still like Blaster and vetrox the best. Probably not going to get through them all before primary voting ends.

[FallingIntoBlack]

Almost half-way through testing, still like Blaster and vetrox the best. Probably not going to get through them all before primary voting ends.

What do you think of my plane?

[Rhomphaia]

Only tested those planes that had a description and did not have turbojets. pretty close between the Ensoku and the Condor for my vote. Going with the Condor.

[Xeldrak]

Well, you obviously can vote for yourself. I personaly just think it's some undignified - because nobody will ever judge his own work truly objective.

[Sirine]

Double post removed. What is that Bad Gateway anyway???

Edited November 4, 2013 by Sirine

[XolotlLoki]

Double post removed.

[XolotlLoki]

What do you think of my plane?

Your plane looked good and was pleasant to fly; it did all the aerobatic maneuvers, and I managed a perfect runway landing with no damage. There were some CoM/CoL/tank issues, which likely would have made the plane difficult to fly as the tanks approached empty.

Edited November 4, 2013 by XolotlLoki

[Sirine]

My vote criteria:-

Matching the "Original Albatross 3" characteristic.

1) It does not "ROLL". It even written in the description. All "Roll" able plane are out.

2) It wings bend. All plane wings does not bend are also out.

3) It uses NormalJet engines. All plane uses TurboJet are out. (Check the PSI value of both engines. It tell huge difference).

4) Heavy parts count plane are out. (> 80 parts. Original Albatross 3 part counts 77. For beginner, the less the part count the better.)

The "far east" personal opinions. Just ignore me as always. Thanks.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Sirine
typo

[I_Killed_Jeb]

My vote criteria:-

Matching the "Original Albatross 3" characteristic.

1) It does not "ROW". It even written in the description. All "Row" able plane are out.

2) It wings bend. All plane wings does not bend are also out.

3) It uses NormalJet engines. All plane uses TurboJet are out. (Check the PSI value of both engines. It tell huge difference).

4) Heavy parts count plane are out. (> 80 parts. Original Albatross 3 part counts 77. For beginner, the lest the part count the better.)

The "far east" personal opinions. Just ignore me as always. Thanks.

wing bending is NOT a positive quality. it makes the attitude control very unstable. the point is to improve the characteristics of stock crafts, not copy them.. not sure what you mean by row but i agree with 3 & 4.

also, stop being so petulant plz

[Sirine]

"Roll" turning around, circle from center. In flight control you will see "Pitch", "Yew", "Roll" <-- the "roll" that I means here.

The original design does not move very 'aerobatic'.

Wings bend, is NOT a positive quality (Totally agree.) But it is a written description, characteristic of itself. I can't just ignore it.

Remember improvement of pistol, is still a pistol, don't do motar, or machine gun, or sniper rifer, or rocket launcher, it does not fit the characteristic.

I'm not petulant.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Sirine
typo

[XolotlLoki]

Testing complete. I tested all planes, except for gm537 who left mine out of his testing.

Now I'll go back and test my favorites again and try to decide who to vote for...

[I_Killed_Jeb]

"Roll" turning around, circle from center. In flight control you will see "Pitch", "Yew", "Roll" <-- the "roll" that I means here.

The original design does not move very 'aerobatic'.

Wings bend, is NOT a positive quality (Totally agree.) But it is a written description, characteristic of itself. I can't just ignore it.

Remember improvement of pistol, is still a pistol, don't do motar, or machine gun, or sniper rifer, or rocket launcher, it does not fit the characteristic.

I'm not petulant.

row != roll. and an aircraft SHOULD roll, not yaw to do most of its turns. the fact that the stock craft cannot is a flaw that should be fixed, not maintained IMO

re: wing bend, if a pistol can't fire because it has a poorly designed chamber, the improvement shouldn't keep the chamber design...

i don't mean to be personal here but statements like "just ignore me as always" are pretty petulant.

[Sirine]

row != roll. and an aircraft SHOULD roll, not yaw to do most of its turns. the fact that the stock craft cannot is a flaw that should be fixed, not maintained IMO

re: wing bend, if a pistol can't fire because it has a poorly designed chamber, the improvement shouldn't keep the chamber design...

i don't mean to be personal here but statements like "just ignore me as always" are pretty petulant.

Point that I disagree, airliner do not roll. In fact, rolling does no good for pilot and plane. Hardly see any plane rolling, except the aerobatic shows.

re: Wing bend. Okay, it is my decision to maintain this characteristic. You can find tons of plane that "wings" are not bend. You find it flaw, I find it beauty.

"just ignore me as always". Not sound petulant to me.

Well, you can just ignore me.

[Xeldrak]

I don't know how your pilots in the far east fly, but last time I boarded a plane from Frankfurt to Vienna the plane did roll to turn. You looked straight at the ground when looking out of the windows on the left side and straight up into the sky on the other side. Commercial airliners DO roll.

[Sirine]

I don't know how your pilots in the far east fly, but last time I boarded a plane from Frankfurt to Vienna the plane did roll to turn. You looked straight at the ground when looking out of the windows on the left side and straight up into the sky on the other side. Commercial airliners DO roll.

Well, if that "ROLL" you means, are few degree roll, then commercial airliners do "ROLL".

My plane also roll, the "original albatross 3" also roll. Is just not that "hard roll", (360 degree roll - acrobatically circle roll).

Edited November 4, 2013 by Sirine

[XolotlLoki]

After re-testing Blaster and vetrox' planes (and mine for comparison), I voted for vetrox. By far the best handing, and a unique design.

For those of you who voted for Sirine, did you actually try to fly her plane? Granted it looked cool, but for a stock plane it's deadly to its pilots.

[Sirine]

After re-testing Blaster and vetrox' planes (and mine for comparison), I voted for vetrox. By far the best handing, and a unique design.

For those of you who voted for Sirine, did you actually try to fly her plane? Granted it looked cool, but for a stock plane it's deadly to its pilots.

Ya, please do test out my plane, it fly like a bird. (Ok, my definition of a bird, well, a real bird, not machine airplane bird.)

Don't try to make a bird to do a 'hard-360 degree-roll'. It simply can't.

It lift-off easily, it land easily and It fly at night.

[XolotlLoki]

It lift-off easily, it land easily and It fly at night.

The problem was that your center-of-mass starts behind the center-of-lift with full tanks. It only gets worse as the tanks drain. This makes even non-aerobatic maneuvering extremely difficult. For example, trying to yaw the plane results in heavy roll, and pitching the plane results in yaw. It's just not stable with the current mass and lift distribution.

[XolotlLoki]

I don't know how your pilots in the far east fly, but last time I boarded a plane from Frankfurt to Vienna the plane did roll to turn. You looked straight at the ground when looking out of the windows on the left side and straight up into the sky on the other side. Commercial airliners DO roll.

More specifically, a proper turn consists of rolling the plane in the direction of the turn, then using pitch up and yaw to do the actual turning. For example, if the roll is 45*, then 1/2 of the pitch goes to the turn (the other half pitches the plane up), as does 1/2 of the yaw (the other half pitches the plane down), so even amounts of both are used. If the angle is different, re-balance the pitch/yaw appropriately.

[Sirine]

You have not fly Frak-I, I'm sure of it. Ask around, its so famous that, so far non-beat its ability. That is what you are looking for.

[BlazeFallow]

More specifically, a proper turn consists of rolling the plane in the direction of the turn, then using pitch up and yaw to do the actual turning. For example, if the roll is 45*, then 1/2 of the pitch goes to the turn (the other half pitches the plane up), as does 1/2 of the yaw (the other half pitches the plane down), so even amounts of both are used. If the angle is different, re-balance the pitch/yaw appropriately.

As someone who has clocked in countless simulator hours and has flown a real plane, this is a pretty good explanation of a standard turn. In aviation terms this is what is known as a 'coordinated turn' which is what every commercial airliner uses to do their standard navigation turns as it is an eesential part of coordinated flight. It keeps the g-forces in the bottom of your seats and helps prevent the contents of people's stomachs from finding freedom.

Well, if that "ROLL" you means, are few degree roll, then commercial airliners do "ROLL".

My plane also roll, the "original albatross 3" also roll. Is just not that "hard roll", (360 degree roll - acrobatically circle roll).

On this, I enter a point of contestation, as the Boeing 707 was

, especially for its size. Link goes to footage of the 707 performing a barrel roll.

[Sirine]

This is how it going...balance.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

And what makes you think that I'm hesitate to move my wings just that little bit further behind, to match up with CoM, CoL?

Balance, I've already taken that 'balance' consideration in my design.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Sirine
statement correction.

[Sirine]

On this, I enter a point of contestation, as the Boeing 707 was

, especially for its size. Link goes to footage of the 707 performing a barrel roll.

Your contestation are in-proper. This is due to you are selectively picking some extraordinary example. And for the "Court-Case Law Sue", this is not an acceptable term for comparing the fact. Of such a selectively high skill people can do it, does not means a common people will able to do it. (I forget the term of it.)

If you are saying every pilot that fly 707 can do this. Then I will accept your point given.

[gm537]

Testing complete. I tested all planes, except for gm537 who left mine out of his testing.

Okay I didn't not test only yours... I have a life and can't spend infinite time on KSP. To me yours (and about 1/4 of the others) didn't resemble the Albatross 3 enough for me to want to put in the testing time. I'm sorry but I state that upfront in the preface. Your singling me out is just being a jerk. I'm betting a lot of people who voted didn't test every single plane.

[gm537]

Also stop arguing with Sirine he obviously has his mind made up about this. If his is a bad plane (according to your criteria or the BSC rules criteria) don't vote for it. Voting for yourself is also operating in bad faith, even if your own is the "best" in the competition it shows respect to vote for the 2nd place.