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[PLUGIN+PARTS][0.23] SCANsat terrain mapping

damny

By damny
in KSP1 Mod Development

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OrtwinS

OrtwinS

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Posted (edited)
This is from the older 'other' mapping program, but the orbital mechanics work for orbital resonance and can be used here to see best / worst orbits.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/27999-ISA-Mapsat-Ideal-and-Non-Ideal-Altitudes

Has worked great for me for many different purposes...

cheers.

I don't think we should apply self-censorship to the names of other relevant or similar plugins.

Making blatant promotions for the 'other side' or slamming down on one or the other is in my opinion 'not done' and 'bad form' (also known as 'being a dick').

General polite and civilized mentions shouldn't be a problem.

The 'other' plugin is ISA Mapsat.

Edited by OrtwinS
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Geschosskopf

Geschosskopf

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I played around with different orbital heights today and the closer you are to the planet (lower altitude) you cover a smaller scan path than that of a higher altitude. It appears that if you set up an orbit close to the max operational altitude of the scanners yo get the widest scan area and results on the map generated.
This is from the older 'other' mapping program, but the orbital mechanics work for orbital resonance and can be used here to see best / worst orbits.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/27999-ISA-Mapsat-Ideal-and-Non-Ideal-Altitudes

Has worked great for me for many different purposes...

cheers.

I am in the process of giving SCANsat as thorough a test as possible by sending mapping probes to every world in the system. As of today, I've done them all except Bop, Pol, and Eeloo, which should get done by the end of the week. In the process, I've been taking notes on the "best" orbits and altitudes.

I say "best", not best, for 2 reasons. First, I wasn't just using SCANsat, I was also scanning for Kethane, and the Kethane scanner (at least in 0.8) imposes limits that SCANsat doesn't have. Second, because I usually have all kinds of things going on in the same game at once, I care a lot about how much gametime it takes to scan a planet. With both SCANsat and Kethane, the least gametime comes from lower orbits, but this means you can't warp very much, so the amount of REALtime required increases. But I also care about realtime, so arrived at a compromise in finding the lowest orbit altitude where I could warp 100x, which for most planets is as much as a single Kethane scanner can do and still hit most hexes it flies over. On very small planets like Gilly, the orbital velocity is so slow that the Kethane scanner works well at 1000x, however. Despite all this, however, the SCANsat beam is only like 2-3 times as wide as the Kethane beam, so the same orbit works well for both.

Anyway, keep the above self-imposed conditions in mind when reading the rest of this. If you don't care about Kethane (or want to keep it separate from SCANsat, which is actually a pretty good idea), or care only about realtime, not gametime, then the orbits I list below are probably not "best" for you.

So, for terrain mapping with SCANsat, you want total coverage, which means an asynchronous polar orbit. The starting point therefore is the post linked above where cxg2827 calculated a number of such orbits for all the planets where this makes a difference. These orbits are asynchronous regardless of what instrument you're using so with SCANsat, you want something off these lists. Just ignore the columns showing time to scan (that's GAMEtime, not realtime) because they are based on ISA's beam width, which varied greatly with altitude while SCANsat's doesn't, so with SCANsat, faster gametimes occur at lower altitudes. Which again gets you into trying to balance gametime vs. realtime, whether you use Kethane or not. Anyway, here's what I came up with:

Oribts for total coverage in least gametime while able to warp 100x (except where noted):

Moho: 150km @ 90^

Eve: 135km @ 88.8^

Gilly: 56km @ 90^ (and 1000x)

Duna: 69.95km @ 87.56^

Ike: 42.84km @ 87.1^

Dres: 52km @ 84.14^

Laythe: 70.583km @ 87.91^

Vall: 41.223km @ 88.51^

Tylo: 160km @ 90^

These orbits get the job done with the least amount of wasted time covering old ground.

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KhaosCorp

KhaosCorp

Posted
Posted
This is from the older 'other' mapping program, but the orbital mechanics work for orbital resonance and can be used here to see best / worst orbits.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/27999-ISA-Mapsat-Ideal-and-Non-Ideal-Altitudes

Has worked great for me for many different purposes...

cheers.

This is a GREAT starting point for finding ideal orbits, but there are a few things to keep in mind when using this info applied to other scans.

First off, this was made for an older version of ISAmapsat, a version that DID NOT allow mapping at warp speeds of anything above x50. Both SCANsat and Kethane equipment can operate just fine at much higher time warp speeds. So, if your planning a mapping mission and plan on using high warp speeds, you may find tweeking those parameters a bit will yield slightly better results.

The other thing to keep mindful of is the difference in per pass swath....the actual width of the area scanned at any given time. Not sure about the current build...but the v4 dev build and old 3.+ versions of ISA were close to SCANsats Low res alti scan. When using the other scan types, or kethane scanners again you may get better results adjusting the parameters a bit.

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drtedastro

drtedastro

Posted
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@OrtwinS:

Man, i have no idea of what you are going on about. I posted info that i thought might help people looking for orbit info. The rest of your blabbering is just nonsense.

I use both mods, I like both mods. You in the hell are you to tell me how to or what to write?

Take some chill med's and calm down.

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Donziboy2

Donziboy2

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Ok, I was running SCANsat in a sandbox game before I installed the latest RemoteTech2 Lite and now when I use more then 1 sat even if I use remote tech to relay them all back to Mission Control only the active sat will scan... It worked fine before RemoteTech2 Lite, is it a bug that I can only Scan with 1 sat?

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drtedastro

drtedastro

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This is a GREAT starting point for finding ideal orbits, but there are a few things to keep in mind when using this info applied to other scans.

First off, this was made for an older version of ISAmapsat, a version that DID NOT allow mapping at warp speeds of anything above x50. Both SCANsat and Kethane equipment can operate just fine at much higher time warp speeds. So, if your planning a mapping mission and plan on using high warp speeds, you may find tweeking those parameters a bit will yield slightly better results.

The other thing to keep mindful of is the difference in per pass swath....the actual width of the area scanned at any given time. Not sure about the current build...but the v4 dev build and old 3.+ versions of ISA were close to SCANsats Low res alti scan. When using the other scan types, or kethane scanners again you may get better results adjusting the parameters a bit.

All good and important points. I think that best thing to use with the ideal oribit altitude and inclination information is that those particular orbits do not waste as much time going over areas multiple times or missing areas..

it becomes a mute point as KhaosCorp points out when warping. I just found the orbital information interesting and good food for thought.

best luck to all and happy mapping.

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John.E

John.E

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Have just downloaded and launched my first ScanSat and am blow away :) Fantastic piece of work. So far just mapping Kerbin (small Kerbals demanding attention) but first impression is of a first rate piece of work. I've remained loyal to ISA for some time but I have to say there is a new game in town, and ScanSat is it. Thanks.

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automcdonough

automcdonough

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so.. I have an idea/request. Something I've wanted since ISA came out several versions ago with the GPS part..

I would like a direction finder for getting to anomalies. Something that, as you're driving around looking for it, uses the map data you've collected to help you zone in on the location. This could perhaps be any waypoint that you click on the map to set, it _somehow_ conveys which direction you have to go to get to that point. It could be a point on the nav/compass. It could be a window with some obscure homing beacon blip like out of the first two aliens movies. It could show on the screen as if approaching a flag. A separate compass. I'm not picky about it, don't relaly care just want the functionality. :)

It doesn't have to be 100% precise, just some basic guidance. It could be a separate GPS type part, but you do already have one that serves only to display map.

In lieu of this, perhaps a way to zoom in on the big map and see where you are compared to the map blip?

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hawk_za

hawk_za

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Just a little update to say still working on my Biome Sensor.

I can't help myself, I'll not stop till it's perfect. Wasn't happy with the 80s PC cream colour.

ZBUgAoX.jpg

Not long, moving forward quickly now

wow that looks fantastic i really hope it gets integrated into the mod as default part

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Sochin

Sochin

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OK now that you have mapping sown up so too speak why not branch out and develop other sensors. As an example here is a list of the sensors onboard the SOHO (Solar and Heliospheric Observatory) satelite, some you can certainly do prior to the expected development of space observatories.

The SOHO Payload Module (PLM) consists of twelve instruments, each capable of independent or coordinated observation of the Sun or parts of the Sun, and some spacecraft components. The instruments are:[5][6]

Coronal Diagnostic Spectrometer (CDS) which measures density, temperature and flows in the corona.

Charge ELement and Isotope Analysis System (CELIAS) which studies the ion composition of the solar wind.

Comprehensive SupraThermal and Energetic Particle analyser collaboration (COSTEP) which studies the ion and electron composition of the solar wind. COSTEP and ERNE are sometimes referred to together as the COSTEP-ERNE Particle Analyzer Collaboration (CEPAC).

Extreme ultraviolet Imaging Telescope (EIT) which studies the low coronal structure and activity.

Energetic and Relativistic Nuclei and Electron experiment (ERNE) which studies the ion and electron composition of the solar wind. (See note above in COSTEP entry.)

Global Oscillations at Low Frequencies (GOLF) which measures velocity variations of the whole solar disk to explore the core of the sun.

Large Angle and Spectrometric Coronagraph (LASCO) which studies the structure and evolution of the corona by creating an artificial solar eclipse.

Michelson Doppler Imager (MDI) which measures velocity and magnetic fields in the photosphere to learn about the convection zone which forms the outer layer of the interior of the sun and about the magnetic fields which control the structure of the corona. The MDI is the biggest producer of data by far on SOHO. In fact, two of SOHO's virtual channels are named after MDI, VC2 (MDI-M) carries MDI magnetogram data, and VC3 (MDI-H) carries MDI Helioseismology data.

Solar Ultraviolet Measurement of Emitted Radiation (SUMER) which measures plasma flows, temperature and density in the corona.

Solar Wind ANisotropies (SWAN) which uses telescopes sensitive to a characteristic wavelength of hydrogen to measure the solar wind mass flux, map the density of the heliosphere, and observe the large-scale structure of the solar wind streams.

UltraViolet Coronagraph Spectrometer (UVCS) which measures density and temperature in the corona.

Variability of solar IRradiance and Gravity Oscillations (VIRGO) which measures oscillations and solar constant both of the whole solar disk and at low resolution, again exploring the core of the sun.

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DMagic

DMagic

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Just a little update to say still working on my Biome Sensor.

I can't help myself, I'll not stop till it's perfect. Wasn't happy with the 80s PC cream colour.

That looks really nice. How big is that part, 1.5m?

And textures are only a problem if they are done poorly. You can just cram all of the different textures onto a single image so that you only load one file. As long as that file isn't huge it shouldn't be much of a problem.

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OrtwinS

OrtwinS

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OK now that you have mapping sown up so too speak why not branch out and develop other sensors. As an example here is a list of the sensors onboard the SOHO (Solar and Heliospheric Observatory) satelite, some you can certainly do prior to the expected development of space observatories.

The SOHO Payload Module (PLM) consists of twelve instruments, each capable of independent or coordinated observation of the Sun or parts of the Sun, and some spacecraft components. The instruments are:[5][6]

-snip long list-

And how exactly would you imagine these sensors are implemented in SCANsat, or even KSP?

SCANsat thus far only scans 'real' stuff. Altitude, biomes, slopes.

All the sensors you just listed measure charged particles and magnetic fields, none of which exist in KSP. It would just be sensors making stuff up, with no relation to the game at all. Exept your own imagination and immersion. Which is nice as well, but I don't think it's something that should be grouped with a functional plugin like SCANsat.

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nsnipe

nsnipe

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And how exactly would you imagine these sensors are implemented in SCANsat, or even KSP?

SCANsat thus far only scans 'real' stuff. Altitude, biomes, slopes.

All the sensors you just listed measure charged particles and magnetic fields, none of which exist in KSP. It would just be sensors making stuff up, with no relation to the game at all. Exept your own imagination and immersion. Which is nice as well, but I don't think it's something that should be grouped with a functional plugin like SCANsat.

Soon ;)http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/58239-Van-Allen-Belts-and-Planetary-Magnetospheres

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