This game is for *massive* nerds

[sizzly]

What I'm talking about is this new career mode.

Though in retrospect, the game in general.

And for the obligatory resume', I'm not of the general COD twitch-shooter genre. I go pretty far back when it comes to space. I moved to Pasadena so I could be closer to JPL, and will be attending Cal Poly Pomona to take classes on spacecraft design.

And this game infuriates me.

I finally got the time tonight to check out the new career mode. I was excited to give it a shot. But after getting a number of rockets into orbit (and getting decimals of research from it), that's when I figured something should be said.

I mean, my god, the Gemini astronauts stayed in orbit for two weeks doing research before running out of power. I can barely make /one/ orbit, without continuously running the engine, and even then they have to be landed. And even now, I try and run a mission to get even a pittance of research back, and with my estimation, I'm going to spend the next two days just to advance to get a solar panel so I no longer have to punch my teeth into a desk to progress.

I know there are you pro's out there. And you'll write up this 20 page long essay on how to successfully dock two hamburgers in orbit (because I've asked and that's what I got).

And I know that this game should have a level of difficulty to it. Not the twitch-finger COD stuff, not the uber-planning WoW stuff, but actual physics and actual science. I get that, and I support it.

But when it comes to career mode, and when it comes to the average player (much less to the player who's been playing for months and can't figure it out), not only are you turning away people who would be genuinely interested in this game, but you're turning away someone who's genuinely interested in the science.

Because if the game is too hard, reality is even harder.

Think about it.

Edited November 1, 2013 by vexx32
Removal of profanity.

[Tobbzzzz]

I see your point

Edit: Btw, welcome to the forums!

Edited November 1, 2013 by Tobbzzzz

[Person012345]

I'm afraid I have no idea what you're going on about.

[vexx32]

I found it a bit annoying at first, but it quickly picks up if you remember to strap parachutes onto your craft and actually retrieve it instead of just transmitting all your data. You tend to get science a lot faster if you return the missions home with some info. Also, battery packs are available earlier than solar panels, so use an awful lot of them (they're not super heavy) if you want to be transmitting a lot of data.

[konokono]

If you don't have the time to play career mode then play sandbox.

The whole point of career mode is to be a challenge that forces you to accomplish tasks with limited parts. I actually find the progression to be quite balanced, even perhaps on the easy side. You can get quite a bit of early research just shooting rockets to different parts of Kerbin and doing experiments there.

[Whatshtisthis]

To me, it's more of a management thing.

You have a limited amount of power, and have more data than you can transmit under that amount of power.

Which one do you send back via transmitting? Which do you send back with the craft?

Is there any way to have more power if you don't have batteries/solar panels? *Hint hint*

[Iron4venger]

This game is for *massive* nerds

And proud.

[John FX]

I got loads of science from just putting one of everything that you start with into one craft and shooting it into the air. I unlocked about two nodes with one flight. Myself I am in the process of making a tree so that the science takes a LOT longer to obtain because I found the career tree was far too easy and gave you too much stuff at the start which meant you could skip large chunks of the tree and open many nodes at a time.

I think maybe there should be an easy tree, an intermediate tree and an advanced tree so that players of different abilities can get a good game experience.

[Kialar]

This game is for *massive* nerds

Thank you.

IMHO the game is for people that love to tinker around.

That's what it is. A game for tinker gnomes like me.

[vexx32]

Moved to General Discussion.

[Sirrobert]

The commandpod hardly uses any electricity, only a little bit when you apply torque. I'm having a hard time understanding how you could run out of power in LKO. Unles you are spamming science transmissions, but why would you do that? Just land and recover

[Kasuha]

I think most of your problems come from misunderstanding.

First thing I noticed: you're not in orbit if you need to constantly fire your engine.

Regarding career mode: it's not the point to get to orbit as fast as you can. You can get plenty of science points just by flying in the close vicinity of the spaceport and doing research there. You can even advance the first few tech levels without leaving the launchpad.

And the game is still in development, too. Many things will change.

[FITorion]

The game requires a basic knowledge of orbital mechanics. Something anyone who has even a little bit of interest in space technology should have already sought out.

From that starting point you can learn the more detailed ins and outs through the game. But it also requires a bit of imagination and a daring spirit to attempt the missions out to the Mun and beyond in order to really get the quantities of science to unlock the higher tech level parts.

The real world in way more complicated... and this is about as simple a simulation as it's possible to get. Career Mode is a Tutorial at this moment. It's easier than Sandbox. It's way easier than the real world. I'm sorry if you think it's too hard... We can try to answer your questions but in the end you need to have the determination to learn or we can't help you.

[Awaras]

I think most of your problems come from misunderstanding.

First thing I noticed: you're not in orbit if you need to constantly fire your engine.

I think he is firing his engines just to recharge electricity...

[NASAFanboy]

I think most of your problems come from misunderstanding.

First thing I noticed: you're not in orbit if you need to constantly fire your engine.

Regarding career mode: it's not the point to get to orbit as fast as you can. You can get plenty of science points just by flying in the close vicinity of the spaceport and doing research there. You can even advance the first few tech levels without leaving the launchpad.

And the game is still in development, too. Many things will change.

He has to fire his engines to GET electricity so his ship can move.

Otherwise, what I suggest is using a larger service module. You see that large white thing at the back of Gemini?

[Seret]

The bottom of the tech tree is a bit sucky, but it doesn't take long to really open up.

Limited electricity is a pain to start, but you've already had some good suggestions about how to manage that.

• Short suborbital hops can give useful amounts of science and won't blow your energy budget.
  
• Don't transmit anything when your engine isn't running. Send some reports during ascent.
  
• Don't use pod torque or lock your SAS any more than necessary.
  
• The resources button at the top right can show you how much juice you have, and how quickly you're draining it
  

Do yourself a favour and push straight for "Science Tech" at Tier 4, this will give you batteries and solve all your problems. You'll need to go via Basic Rocketry and Survivability, and it'll cost you 68 science if the wiki is to be believed. You should be able to get that from a couple of atmospheric hops around the Space Centre and some suborbital flights. If you can make orbit you can get that much science no probs. Don't forget to do little things like take a soil sample from wherever you land. It makes no sense, but it's free science points.

Above all, keep trying! By about Tier 4 of the tech tree everything suddenly gets pretty easy. You've got decent engines, landing legs, probe cores, enough electricity and you can get out to Kerbin's moons or even other planets without having to be too 1337.

[Snarfster]

Putting two command pods on top of each other will help if you don't have access to batteries yet.

[Tw1]

And proud.

Yep! Same here.

There is a learning curve, but it's doable. But not every one here has a nerdy background.

And Career Mode will probably get some tweaking, it's supposed to teach, but you've still got to be quite clever about part choices, unless you're looking for a challenge.

[Highlad]

Honestly I think you are looking at the game all wrong. If you want a simplistic style of game, I suggest playing sandbox. It is designed to be fun, entertaining etc. Career mode, on the other hand, is designed to be harder. The way I look at it is that it is about the journey not the destination. If you only want to play the game to say, get to the mun, then once you are there, you will have nothing to do. If you focus on playing around with what you have, the game will become much more fun.

I do agree that there should be different levels of difficulty, just so that i can play extreem and so that earlier players can play on an easier level.

[Melonfish]

My very first rocket i fired straight up and almost ended out of kerbals gravity well and into a solar orbit.

i don't think this game is for nerds, just people who like to build things. i mean you can if you want calculate delta V required for hohman transfers. or you can point your craft in direction of travel, burn until you apoapsis reaches the desired altitute and just see how much fuel you have left and then wing it to the mun and back

its a pretty open game.

[lipatden]

And I know that this game should have a level of difficulty to it. Not the twitch-finger COD stuff, not the uber-planning WoW stuff, but actual physics and actual science. I get that, and I support it.

But when it comes to career mode, and when it comes to the average player (much less to the player who's been playing for months and can't figure it out), not only are you turning away people who would be genuinely interested in this game, but you're turning away someone who's genuinely interested in the science.

I think this genuinely needs to have been said, thanks sizzly. While there are walkthroughs/tutorials I don't believe they've been updated for career, but yes this needs some time invested by players not least to learn basic orbital mechanics and TWRs. This isn't an arcade game, and unlike e.g. WoW the game mode is radically different for level 1 and level 20 players - in FPS/WoW it's just bigger version of the first spell/guns/armor/companions etc. Here, new gameplay mechanics are constantly introduced - docking, RCS, lighting, power systems, fuel transfer, advanced staging, atmospheres, terrain, weight distribution, damage models. It needs to be introduced gently for newbies, and skippable by experienced players. So, unfortunately if you're not accustomed to taking this all into account it's a lot to take in, but an experienced player can build a whizz-bang ship from the start and leapfrog the tech tree.

I hope Squad takes this on board to ensure the learning curve isn't so steep for novices, as I believe this game has huge learning potential.

Edited November 1, 2013 by lipatden
Original post was utterly redundant

[LameLefty]

This whole thread started as a troll (Not "BY a troll" - the thread itself is a troll). It's a drive-by shot intended to piss off all the regular players who love the game. And clearly it worked.

Look, if you don't like the game, don't play it. If you have CONSTRUCTIVE feedback to the devs as they refine and improve Career Mode, by all means give it. But don't dump a massive insult-turd on the game's fan base and expect to be taken seriously.

(And I'm a former spacecraft design engineer so I'm as nerdy as they come about a lot of things).

[lipatden]

This whole thread started as a troll (Not "BY a troll" - the thread itself is a troll). It's a drive-by shot intended to piss off all the regular players who love the game. And clearly it worked.

I'm a regular player, I love this game, and I think the comment is important. It definitely hasn't pissed me off, but has shown that someone's expectations are missed and I'm sure Squad would hear from this type of player in addition to the fans.

Look, if you don't like the game, don't play it. If you have CONSTRUCTIVE feedback to the devs as they refine and improve Career Mode, by all means give it. But don't dump a massive insult-turd on the game's fan base and expect to be taken seriously.

He's pretty clear in his description, the progress is measly and he's gotten confused over what to do to power his transmissions, see it from a newbie's view and he's behaved quite rationally. I agree, a total nerd would know the basics of power systems, atmospheric drag, some orbital mechanics. I haven't even suggested my gf play this game for that reason, and she is a huge gaming fan (D3, Civ5, Sims etc) - it's just not accessible without some classroom time.

(And I'm a former spacecraft design engineer so I'm as nerdy as they come about a lot of things).

I'm in IT and have seen the same thing in this engineering field: experts have difficulty seeing a novice's perspective. I value his feedback as I hope Squad would.

[SRV Ron]

Career Mode teaches you to find ways to get max science returned to Kerbal as well as how to conserve resources. Go slow. Find what works and what doesn't. The same reasoning works in Sandbox as well.

[iDan122]

Your points (OP) are incorrect. The very first Vostokhad no solar panels, so don't we. Career mode boosts your creativity. For example, I didn't have side decouplers, so I just placed the normal ones around on the sides and attached srbs to them.

When I didn't have solar panels, I just but a bunch of battery packs and did all turns carefully so as not to waste electric charge on the reaction wheels. I would transfer data till I was close to running out, then I would stock up on experiments and take them home. There is some sense in career mode, it adds a little challenge in a fun and (somewhat) educational way. Hope you change your decision, I'm always sorry to hear people complaining about hard things.

"we are doing it not because it is easy, but because it is hard!" -John F. Kennedy