Now-defunct-thread-that-should-not-appear-in-google-search.

[Umlüx]

how can one link two networks together?

if i have several sats in kerbin orbit and several in mun orbit, how do i link them? is it enough to simply point some antennas from kerbin to the mun and vice versa or do i have to static link the sats directly? then i would need a whole bunch of antennas on each sat?

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

how can one link two networks together?

if i have several sats in kerbin orbit and several in mun orbit, how do i link them? is it enough to simply point some antennas from kerbin to the mun and vice versa or do i have to static link the sats directly? then i would need a whole bunch of antennas on each sat?

You've got a network around Mun and Kerbin? Not bad.

Remember, Dish to Dish is a locked down connection. But you get a cone effect for aiming at the planet/moon. So assuming you have wide enough fields of views on your dishes, you can in fact just tell them 'look at kerbin' while telling some dishes around kerbin to 'look at mun', and be done with it. The satellites don't care, as long as you fulfill their criteria for a connection.

[Umlüx]

not yet, i am still building it up

just wanted to ask if it is even possible before i invest so much work.

thanks a lot!

[Aeon-Phoenix]

It's not clear what you're saying exactly, at least to me.

But think of the dishes themselves as talking face to face. When doing satellite aiming, two satellites must have a dish on BOTH facing the opposing sat as if having a conversation with each other. If you have a third satellite come in and aim a dish at them, it's going to be ignored. In order to speak with the third sat, sat 2 or 1 must have a free dish to aim at the third one.

The biggest mistake I see going on is that people aim one dish, but either don't realize, or forget that the receiver is a dish as well, and can't just receive from any direction and must be aimed, just like turning to face someone speaking to you.

It gets horribly complicated really fast if you're trying to chain satellite constellations using dishes. That's why I prefer using lower orbit omnis, and linking them to satellites in synchronous orbit, then having all the sats in sync orbit pointing at a hub that's half way to minmus.

Also, remember that your interlink has to chain back to a mission control. That is defined as KSC itself, or a vessel containing SIX (6) kerbals AND a large probe core. If your chain is broken somewhere else, then you don't have the uplink, even if you have connectivity.

I suspect some Kerban Error to be involved with the 'aim at active' command. In this case, you work on sat 1, tell it to aim at the active, then launch sat 2, and sat 1 aims at sat 2. Then you tell sat 2 to aim at the active and launch sat 3. Now sat 1 AND 2 aim at sat 3, which means sat 1 is not longer talking to sat 2. Further, because 'talk to the face' with sat 3 aimed at sat 2, sat 1's attempt to link is being ignored by sat 3. Oops, link is broken... TWICE.

OKay to elaborate what i do in my THIRD attempt now.

I got THREE sats.

Sat 1:

DTM ---> Mission Control = Check

DTM ---> Sat 2 = Check

DTM ---> Sat 3 = could not check in operation

K-7 ---> to Active = check

Sat 2:

DTM ---> Sat 1 = Check

DTM ---> Sat 3 = FAILURE

DTM ---> not in use

K-7 ---> to Active = FAILURE

Sat 3:

DTM ---> Sat 1 = Check

DTM ---> Sat 2 = FAILURE

DTM ---> not in use

K-7 ---> not in use at that point

Each DTM is a separate dish. Line of sight is present, electricity is present, range should be PLENTY okay.

My thought is that when Sat3 cannot reach Sat1 it comms with Sat2, which in turn relays to Sat1, which then relays to Mission control.

Aka: sat3--->sat2--->sat1---->mission control

Or am i mistaken and i misunderstood the whole reason why you do such relays?

I'm sorry if i sound tense, but i invested a whole night on this, made every gorram orbit myself, tore myself hair out and i'm worn out.

[Peppe]

OKay to elaborate what i do in my THIRD attempt now.

I got THREE sats.

Sat 1:

DTM ---> Mission Control = Check

DTM ---> Sat 2 = Check

DTM ---> Sat 3 = could not check in operation

K-7 ---> to Active = check

Sat 2:

DTM ---> Sat 1 = Check

DTM ---> Sat 3 = FAILURE

DTM ---> not in use

K-7 ---> to Active = FAILURE

Sat 3:

DTM ---> Sat 1 = Check

DTM ---> Sat 2 = FAILURE

DTM ---> not in use

K-7 ---> not in use at that point

Each DTM is a separate dish. Line of sight is present, electricity is present, range should be PLENTY okay.

My thought is that when Sat3 cannot reach Sat1 it comms with Sat2, which in turn relays to Sat1, which then relays to Mission control.

Aka: sat3--->sat2--->sat1---->mission control

Or am i mistaken and i misunderstood the whole reason why you do such relays?

I'm sorry if i sound tense, but i invested a whole night on this, made every gorram orbit myself, tore myself hair out and i'm worn out.

For relay networks you should really consider using omni antennas. Sounds like you are in a 3 satellite 2800km orbit though, which would put each satellite slightly out of reach of omnis.

Consider two things, the 5mm omni on a 4 satellite constellation at 2800 orbit would all stay in range of eachother. You could then put a dish on them that points to active vessel. Active vessel could use omni for close kerbin then dish pointed to kerbin and should always hit one of the dishes.

Using only dishes. You have 3 satellites... probably an equilateral triangle? First satellite dish 1 has a 45 degree field of view -- pointed at the planet the other two satellites would be about out of view.

Here is how i visualize your setup:

So you then add a dish to each and point a dish at kerbin and a dish at a neighbor satellite, but there is no reciever pointed back in view, so need 3 dishes on the satellite one to look at each neighbor and one to look for KSC. They should all stay connected to KSC that way, but now have no dish to point at a vessel.

The active ship has to be in their path +- half of 45 degrees and target it's own dish or use an omni if close enough to be part of that network. You said one sat in the 3 has an extra dish... it could point at the active vessel, and the vessel back to it and it will relay to kerbin. The connection uptime will only be the period the 2 can see eachother... Your relay has not provided much relay capability.

To use dish to dish communication:

Sat 1:

Dish 1 point to planet

Dish 2 point to Sat 2

Dish 3 point to Sat 3

Dish 4 point to Active Vessel

Sat 2:

Dish 1 point to planet

Dish 2 point to Sat 1

Dish 3 point to Sat 3

Dish 4 point to Active Vessel

Sat 3:

Dish 1 point to planet

Dish 2 point to Sat 1

Dish 3 point to Sat 2

Dish 4 point to Active Vessel

Or you can add more satellites to your network, so that aiming at kerbin from one side of the planet will hit a satellite on the other side. 5 equally spaced satellites should do this.

If you use one dish with a 45 degree cone angle pointed at kerbin it will form a triangle with the 2 satellites on the oppisite side. Any satellite should then be able bounce around a signal to hit KSC with only one dish committed to relaying.

Their other dish can point to active vessel or a planet/moon and relay all signals from that target to KSC.

Edit:

Forgot you were in a geosynchronous orbit. You can eliminate one dish from the above on the satellites not over KSC.

So:

Sat 1 over KSC:

-Dish 1, Point to KSC/Kerbin

-Dish 2, point to sat 2

-Dish 3, point to sat 3

-Dish 4, point to active vessel

Sat 2:

Dish 1 point to Active Vessel

Dish 2 point to Sat 1

Dish 3 point to Sat 3 -- not needed

Sat 3:

Dish 1 point to Active Vessel

Dish 2 point to Sat 1

Dish 3 point to Sat 2 -- not needed

Edit 2: I guess you would never need to go sat 2 to sat 3 to sat 1 to ksc, so you can eliminate dish 3 on both the relays.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Peppe

[BigD145]

If you put 3 in kerbosync and aim dishes at each other, they'll pair up. If you put in another three and rotate their orientation so you end up with a pentagram of connection lines, the two sets of three will talk to each other through omni if you also put 5Mm omnis on all 6 satellites. Three of those satellites should also have omni to Kerbin Command. Omni should take care of any drift and you'll have very little outage. Dishes should be 50 or 90Mm. With 4 dishes on each satellite you can use two to pair up with partners in the 3 set and two for the Mun and Minmus. Add a couple huge 350Gm dishes and you will only lose connection out in the solar system if eclipsed by a planet/moon.

[Frostiken]

Someone care to explain to me what the problem here is?

http://i.imgur.com/pCFWHRH.png

Power, check.

Direct LOS, check.

Within range, check.

Antennas deployed, check.

Network connection, check.

Doing anything at all, negative.

[J.Random]

Someone care to explain to me what the problem here is?

My first guess would be "too many mods", try to find which one's incompatible.

[Frostiken]

My first guess would be "too many mods", try to find which one's incompatible.

Blasphemy.

[Aeon-Phoenix]

Peppe: Highly apprechiated. That gave me some ideas for future networks. However. I must had have a blonde moment. Sat 2 was still logged to the previous Sat3 (the second generation). So my setup just works fine and is very reliable (so far).

You should really take this post and add it to the remotetech turorial in the KSP-wiki. It is WAY clearer and gives options for different approaches.

Now a funny sidenote: i thought i've been smart by putting the two deep space relays slightly above minmus... yeah bad idea. over time they drift off into a sun orbit just behind kerbin. I mean. this can prove useful later on so i left them there. they work fine and are connected to the Mission-control fine.

[ModZero]

Is it possible to send an "activate" command while the antenna is active, but there's a deactivation queued? (The idea is to fold my oversized antennas for aerobraking).

[somnambulist]

Is it possible to send an "activate" command while the antenna is active, but there's a deactivation queued? (The idea is to fold my oversized antennas for aerobraking).

I've never tried, but you should be able to send a deactivate and activate with two different delays. Deactivate in 10 minutes, activate in 30 minutes.

[ModZero]

I've never tried, but you should be able to send a deactivate and activate with two different delays. Deactivate in 10 minutes, activate in 30 minutes.

The direct problem is, before the antenna is closed, it doesn't give you the activate option. Once it does, you no longer have an antenna to receive the next command.

I just thought that I probably can use action groups, which I'll do on the next try, I guess :-)

[Rokker]

Ok, I still can not figure out why so many people purposely put their comsats into a stationary orbit, or a synchronous orbit at all for that matter. It has no point at all and requires much more engineering than just throwing them into a random circular orbit much closer to Kerbin.

[NathanKell]

To ensure 100% coverage for launches and pinpoint recoveries (which you won't get from a lower satellite unless you build a constellation or time it just right.)

[Iluinrandir]

for playing with BTSM i am using action groups to toggle my communication devices. Works pretty well. Setting the delay to 2h and toogle the action group. Then remove the delay and toggle the antenna again to deactivate it. After 2h the probe will go online again. Important though: Dont leave the probe or the flight computer will be cleared; (i already lost two probes because of this o.O)

[Rokker]

To ensure 100% coverage for launches and pinpoint recoveries (which you won't get from a lower satellite unless you build a constellation or time it just right.)

I meant to say stationary constellations Nathan. A single stationary satellite over KSC makes sense, making a stationary constellation does not, at least in the RT/KSP world.

[Peppe]

Peppe: Highly apprechiated. That gave me some ideas for future networks. However. I must had have a blonde moment. Sat 2 was still logged to the previous Sat3 (the second generation). So my setup just works fine and is very reliable (so far).

You should really take this post and add it to the remotetech turorial in the KSP-wiki. It is WAY clearer and gives options for different approaches.

Now a funny sidenote: i thought i've been smart by putting the two deep space relays slightly above minmus... yeah bad idea. over time they drift off into a sun orbit just behind kerbin. I mean. this can prove useful later on so i left them there. they work fine and are connected to the Mission-control fine.

Glad it helped. Between space programs I spend more time in excel and paint planning networks than in game. I might try to write something up and draw some clean diagrams and add it to the wiki.

Editing my post again... realized that with your geosynchronous if sat 1 is over KSC, then sat 2 and sat 3 would never need to talk to eachother. They can just point to sat 1 and active vessel and cover their section of space, and use sat 1's connection to KSC. So as you said you have enough dishes to do what you wanted, but guess had a kerbal error pointing to the wrong place.

There is a coverage if you have inactive kerbin surface based ships. You could cover them with a dish or probably better to use the 5mm omni to point/cover kerbin's surface from sat 2 and 3.

[Brill0pad]

Is there any way to turn off signal delay? if not, would you consider having it be a toggle in the future? I love everything about this mod, except the signal delay.

[Rokker]

Oh and in other news, I have figured out one of the most inefficient ways to use redundancy to deal with drift. I call it the Kessler or Ring constellation:

It uses the process that has been used to give rings to Kerbin only instead of useless pieces of debris, they are probe cores with antenna and solar panels.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Rokker

[Mecripp]

Is there any way to turn off signal delay? if not, would you consider having it be a toggle in the future? I love everything about this mod, except the signal delay.

all u need to do is edit the RemoteTech_Settings.cfg in the RT folder open it with notepad it will look like this

MissionControlRange = 7.5E+07

MissionControlPosition = -0.1313315,-74.59484,75

MissionControlGuid = 5105f5a9d62841c6ad4b21154e8fc488

ActiveVesselGuid = 35b89a0d664c43c6bec8d0840afc97b2

MissionControlBody = 1

ConsumptionMultiplier = 1

RangeMultiplier = 1

SpeedOfLight = 3E+08

MapFilter = Omni, Dish, Planet, Path

EnableSignalDelay = True

RangeModelType = Standard

NathanKell_MultipleAntennaSupport = False

ThrottleTimeWarp = False

change the EnableSignalDelay = True to EnableSignalDelay = False

hope this helps you

[ModZero]

for playing with BTSM i am using action groups to toggle my communication devices. Works pretty well. Setting the delay to 2h and toogle the action group. Then remove the delay and toggle the antenna again to deactivate it. After 2h the probe will go online again. Important though: Dont leave the probe or the flight computer will be cleared; (i already lost two probes because of this o.O)

Thanks - that makes sense.

[mdapol]

This has nothing to do with the OP. It's a bug. Only antennas that are "on by default" will be active when the craft loads. If they are in range of your network, then you have a connection and can activate the longer range antennas. But if they are not in range, you have no antennas active that can communicate. Therefore the craft is dead. RT needs to save the state of the antennas so this doesn't happen.

[dewin]

I've encountered a highly reproducible bug when using MechJeb (v139 and both v150) with RemoteTech 2 v 1.3.3.

[...]

After launching a manned mission with a probe core payload, the probe core refuses to execute MechJeb commands correctly when separated. Time warp works correctly but throttle and attitude (orientation) do not. The gyros begin jittering all over the place in small oscillations, never finding the correct maneuver orientation. This is the source problem.

I've experienced this issue even without MJ -- RT2's flight computer failed to do any sort of turning towards the maneuver node I created (or any other turn direction e.g. Prograde). The satellite had an active communications link, power, etc. What ultimately ended up fixing it was cycling between crafts a few times -- note that more than one craft was in the scene at the time (the satellite + my multiple satellite deployment vehicle which it had just undocked from)

[mdapol]

What would happen if I have multiple versions of ModuleManager in my GameData folder? For example, because of various addon needs, I have ModuleManager_1_5.dll, ModuleManager_1_5_5.dll and ModuleManager_1_5_6.dll. Will this cause a conflict? Could this be the cause of the no-deploy-animation bug I have with RemoteTech?