[1.1.3] AntennaRange 1.11.4 - Enforce and Encourage Antenna Diversity

[BudgetHedgehog]

If you're feeling artsy again and want to get a shot with the UI showing the AntennaRange toolbar or applauncher icon, that'd be awesome.

Something like this? Or do you want no text?

[Nicole]

Hello, thanks for the great mod. I think mechanics like this really improve personal goals in the game. I did find a bug though!

This involves the setting 'Require connection to control probes'. I flew out to the Mun with a small probe, and lost connection and manual control as expected, but because my SAS was still active the game would let click the heading locks and the SAS would align me to it. Then the Z and X keys were still functioning to allow me to toggle full throttle and off throttle. I found out I had lost control after doing most of my Mun orbit maneuver, lol. Since the SAS heading locks can include a custom maneuver, and engine thrust can be altered with the thrust limiter slider, I was still able to do anything I like with the probe. I'm guessing this is unintended behavior for the mod.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Nicole

[toadicus]

There are two ways I can see this going. One is to link the Tracking Station upgrades with higher gain recievers, so you essentially add to the length of the kerbin reception distance as you upgrade the tracking station. The other way would be to give Kerbin the highest tech antenna that you have researched, implying that the KSP has a distributed network of listening posts with current technology. Either way would help, without the need to put comsats up, though you could reduce the effect for kerbin with the excuse of atmospheric attenuation.

All up for it. But perhaps people come here for the simplicity, so maybe do it as something of an "Antenna Diversity +" menu option, or even a separate download.I was planning to download some of the old packs containing antenna models(maybe I will even check up with RT and see if its license permits it), making the textures dds, fixing the CFGs and using them as additional diversity for antennas, which I would tweak to my tastes. By initial calculations this would mean about 1-2 more antennas. One to go between 88-88 and DTS and one to go after 88-88, after I reduce the range of 88-88 further to make it more of a retranslation choice, rather than "Send one to Duna, cover Eeloo" thing.

Tying Kerbin's range to the Tracking Station level is probably a safe direction to go. I can give an option to disable it if people want to be required to put comsats in orbit.

I like the idea of more antennas to make the "level up" from antenna to antenna feel more natural, but I'm not a modeler and also like the idea of keeping my mod fully compatible with an otherwise-stock installation. I could probably use ModuleManager Magic to shuffle things around when other mods (like Origami) are detected, but there are so many antenna mods out there that I really don't want to put myself into a position where I'm maintaining a giant pile of MM patches for every one of them. Maybe I'll put a call out to on the mod dev forum for antenna modders who want to collaborate and see if anything sticks.

Well, range is usually a bigger deal than occlusion (since orbiting generally fixes occlusion problems faster than range). So, if out of range, draw range data (ignoring occlusion). If in range, draw occlusion data (if pertinent). I'm not sure how your com-network optimization code works, so I can't really say what will be easier to code, or if the "otherwise-most-ideal target" even means anything in this context. You might need to do a backward search (from Kerbin outward, instead of from the vessel to Kerbin) in order to find an optimal target.

Green line - active connection currently, goes all the way from the source of the signal to Kerbin.

Notes: Depending on overhead for calculations and time to implement required can be shown for active vessel only/all vessels with antennas and something to transmit(i.e. not active for just a probe with an antenna, like most of the satellite contracts)/toggle-able option for active vessel only/all vessels with antennas and something to transmit. Again depending on resource utilization - needs balancing for checks per unit of time

Yellow line - If no active connection is possible right now, but was/will be in the future - nearest possible connection that would be used when(and in case) it comes within LoS again.

Notes: Depending on overhead for calculations may be too resource intensive to calculate future craft coming in range, so most likely should only calculate for signal re-translation craft within antenna range, but currently out of LoS. Example: A retranslation satellite which is orbiting the Mun, but is currently out of line of sight of your active vessel.

The no-red-line-but-red-marker-on-vessel-thingy: I propose no active red lines, there is no actual use for them in my proposed system. Instead an all-vessels/active vessel marker should be shown above the actual vessel icon within map view.

Notes: I even have a picture in my mind regarding how the icon should look: https://bg3.biz/cloud/public.php?service=files&t=AhsQRQpbsK36UeK

Crudely drawn, but with transparent background. Blinking above active/any vessel with no active connection.

Perhaps if implementing lines is already done as code, putting an icon over the vessel icon instead of drawing a line should not be hard.

Showing any data for an out of range probe will require some rework. But, it's rework that might overlap well with the additive range concept, so it's still a possibility.

I want to keep the "green/yellow/red" concept consistent between the map lines and the icon colors. It's important communicate the same thing with similar icons, so a "yellow" line will have to mean "active but sub-optimal connection". Dudecon's earlier idea about showing range and line of sight failures using a line with two colors is something that I like, provided I can make it work.

Adding icons to map view is actually an entirely different set of concepts from drawing lines. Maybe it's easy; I have no idea. It's not a bad idea, I'll think about it.

2. The least occluded in-range receiver. That is, the receiver which is closest to not being occluded.

"Least occluded" is not something I currently measure, but in general it should coincide with "closest". Since in that sort of scenario we're all in orbit of the same sphere, the shortest chord length should also indicate the "least occluded" target.

Well, you could draw a red line to the last good connection or like you said connection in range but lack line of sight, but since they are just showing a lack of connection, I agree with smunisto where you could simply indicate receivers that have no connection with an icon instead. The green lines could indicate a two-way connection where both transmitters are within range of each other where yellow would indicate a one way connection. Could be useful for data that travels in one way, such as requiring a connection to (or two-way connection) for probes, but returning science being okay as a one way transmission.

"Last good" might be easier for me to track internally but isn't necessarily relevant. If the "last good" target was a comsat in Kerbolar orbit, and it goes out of range because it's orbiting the sun faster than you are, your connection status with it is probably not very relevant at all.

At this point we don't distinguish between "one way" and "two way" connections. In general, if a one way connection is possible, so is a two-way.

Something like this? Or do you want no text?

Excellent. OP updated with some new info, and the graphic to back it up.

Hello, thanks for the great mod. I think mechanics like this really improve personal goals in the game. I did find a bug though!

This involves the setting 'Require connection to control probes'. I flew out to the Mun with a small probe, and lost connection and manual control as expected, but because my SAS was still active the game would let click the heading locks and the SAS would align me to it. Then the Z and X keys were still functioning to allow me to toggle full throttle and off throttle. I found out I had lost control after doing most of my Mun orbit maneuver, lol. Since the SAS heading locks can include a custom maneuver, and engine thrust can be altered with the thrust limiter slider, I was still able to do anything I like with the probe. I'm guessing this is unintended behavior for the mod.

Yup, that's definitely not the intent. I'll see if I've missed a lot someplace, or if Squad's lock is leaking the Z and X keys.

[Mecripp]

All, I can say is thank you thank you can't wait.

[toadicus]

All, I can say is thank you thank you can't wait.

Well, I found one of the problems it was making last time; the lines don't go away when you leave map mode. Definitely still some work to do before I can ship it!

[Mecripp]

lol I guess we wanted lines that would sure give them

[Red2blue]

Hi there,

I am quite new to Kerbal and I really love the concept of this mod. Last days I was thinking about how to make sattelites more usefull and bang, here you come with this glorious mod.

@ MeCripp: I would like to get the Origami Dishes working, because I really like your concept and the diversity. Should I do follow your post? I read something about a patch, but since I have not really much experience in KSP Modding I don't know where and how to apply the patch at Github. Maybe you could give me a hint how I make the mod compatible with mods like Dmagic and so on.

Every help is appriciated. Thanks for making this mod and modding the mod with patches

[Mecripp]

Here is the patch he made there https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72893034/help/ORIGAMI_AntennaRange_Patch.cfg and here are some of the patches,

I have which also has the ORIGAMI dish did look to what are ranges was but you can https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72893034/help/AntennaRange3_Half_Range.cfg and you just but them anywhere in KSP/GameData,

I have a ModuleManager files folder in my KSP/GameData folder with just patches in it but some, I just put in that mods folder you can open the cfg with any text editor.

EDIT- I do play with a little shorter range then toadicus has them.

EDIT- And on Github you can highlight what you want and copy and paste it in a text edtor and save has a cfg

EDIT- And I forgot my password to Github to funny.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Mecripp2

[Red2blue]

Here is the patch he made there https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72893034/help/ORIGAMI_AntennaRange_Patch.cfg and here are some of the patches,

I have which also has the ORIGAMI dish did look to what are ranges was but you can https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72893034/help/AntennaRange3_Half_Range.cfg and you just but them anywhere in KSP/GameData,

I have a ModuleManager files folder in my KSP/GameData folder with just patches in it but some, I just put in that mods folder you can open the cfg with any text editor.

EDIT- I do play with a little shorter range then toadicus has them.

EDIT- And on Github you can highlight what you want and copy and paste it in a text edtor and save has a cfg

EDIT- And I forgot my password to Github to funny.

Thanks a lot for your help. Unfortunately the fist link is not working. But I set up the following: NAU_for_AntennaRange.cfg & AntennaRange3_Half_Range.cfg. Is this all i need? Or do I also need ORIGAMI_AntennaRange_Patch.cfg (guess this is the NAU_for_AntennaRange)?

Again thanks!

[KerbMav]

Do antennae stay extended after transmitting scientific data?

The stock transmission module retracts antennae after transmission, which makes probes look quite lame ...

[toadicus]

Red2blue, if you're looking specifically for the Origami dishes, Kesselya made a recent patch designed just to integrate those antennæ, here: http://hastebin.com/ludubehine

MeCripp has an excellent collection of patches for various mods here: https://github.com/Mecripp/AntennaRange-Patch.

I don't officially support any of those patches, but if you have ModuleManager questions I'm happy to answer them as I'm able.

KerbMav, no, they don't stay extended. I've looked in to various ways of making that work, and in general I've never found anything satisfactory short of rewriting the transmitters entirely. Last I checked, the stock transmitter code (which I extend, not supplant) forcibly opens the antennas bit by bit (rather than just asking them to animate), and waits for that process to complete before transmitting. I'll try to look in to it again soon.

[Red2blue]

Red2blue, if you're looking specifically for the Origami dishes, Kesselya made a recent patch designed just to integrate those antennæ, here: http://hastebin.com/ludubehine

MeCripp has an excellent collection of patches for various mods here: https://github.com/Mecripp/AntennaRange-Patch.

I don't officially support any of those patches, but if you have ModuleManager questions I'm happy to answer them as I'm able.

Hi toadicus, thanks for helping me here. Appriciate your help and pointing me to the ressources . And thanks for your awsome mod. Already got two communication satelites up and running around Kerbin and Mun

[toadicus]

It's not perfect yet, but things are coming along.

[Mecripp]

Looking great going to be happy kerbals.

[smunisto]

Great!

I am waiting for it eagerly, so I can stop trying to calculate MaxPowersomething * something in order to understand why my satellite near the Mun loses control when in plain sight of a relay nearby.

[Kab00mBaby]

It's not perfect yet, but things are coming along.

looking forward to have this implemented. keep up the great work

[therealcrow999]

It's not perfect yet, but things are coming along.

https://youtu.be/D05jX7ffr8k

https://imgrush.com/J2AZh22bS4Xa.png

I'm liking the idea of this mod more then RT, don't get me wrong RT is a good mod. Now that I get to see Antenna Range work I can see how this mod works.

I like the idea of line of sight and ranges of antenna, I see the need for relay networks still with this mod. Which I like having relay networks but not overly complex ones. In RT a network always has to be connected to the KSC, with this mod I like the idea of just connecting to Kerbin. We got to already assume there is a land relay network in place on Kerbin itself, so all we have to do is point at Kerbin if line of sight and range lets us, then we can communicate with Kerbin. We also can't assume the only place on Kerbin is the KSC that we can communicate with.

[therealcrow999]

Can someone explain the "Fudge Factor?" There is no info on the OP and I breifly looked through this thread I didn't see anything.

[Mecripp]

In short how far your sat is looking around the corner not just a strait line.

[smunisto]

Can someone explain the "Fudge Factor?" There is no info on the OP and I breifly looked through this thread I didn't see anything.

From 20 or so posts ago:

The Fudge percentage is how much leeway you're given if the antenna gets blocked by a celestial body by pretending the body is X% smaller than it actually is.

[autumnalequinox]

Love this mod. It gorgeously fills a need without over complicating things. Plus it adds a great progression to the tech tree (keeps you from launching IP probes until you have played around in the local system for a good enough time.. no Voyager before Apollo). I've gotten a few hair raising moments, as well (coming up on node, praying that I can establish comm with a relay system on the wrong side of the Mun... then.. just in time!!!).

Also I've noticed it works well with MechJeb. Programmed operations will still function without a comm link, allowing some remote-techish programming for probes.

Can't wait for what's next!! Thanks for the awesome.

[Fraz86]

Also I've noticed it works well with MechJeb. Programmed operations will still function without a comm link, allowing some remote-techish programming for probes.

Can you initiate new MechJeb operations without a comm link? Or does it merely continue to execute a previously initiated operation? I hope it's the latter, because the former feels like cheating.

[Mecripp]

Can you initiate new MechJeb operations without a comm link? Or does it merely continue to execute a previously initiated operation? I hope it's the latter, because the former feels like cheating.

Do you really think they controlled the Mar's Rover all the way to Mar's ?

EDIT- This was the biggest problem with RT and this mod lets you pick but just because you don't have a comm link doesn't mean it's just stopped in KSP there is no way to program all the commands unless you use something like KOS and spend alot of your time writing the scrip.

But just like real life some one wrote the scrip the the Mar's Rover went on can only remember 2 times the sent commands to it and that was after it landed.

But sure they have sent more by now.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Mecripp2

[autumnalequinox]

Can you initiate new MechJeb operations without a comm link? Or does it merely continue to execute a previously initiated operation? I hope it's the latter, because the former feels like cheating.

It didn't take any commands when disconnected. Pretty sweet?

- - - Updated - - -

Do you really think they controlled the Mar's Rover all the way to Mar's ?

EDIT- This was the biggest problem with RT and this mod lets you pick but just because you don't have a comm link doesn't mean it's just stopped in KSP there is no way to program all the commands unless you use something like KOS and spend alot of your time writing the scrip.

But just like real life some one wrote the scrip the the Mar's Rover went on can only remember 2 times the sent commands to it and that was after it landed.

But sure they have sent more by now.

Even if it did, yeah I could say it would just be written off as "pre-programmed operation". Nothing says you are cheating as long as there is a rational explanation (such as KCT's "simulation mode")

[Mecripp]

It was my bad, I get cranky if, I haven't had a pot of coffee and it was getting close time to make anther pot to me your not cheating unless you feel like it and, I misread his comment my bad Fraz86.