For stations and ships to remember if RCS or SAS is left on and keeps them on.

[Damaske]

_{Ever get ready to dock and as you move in to dock you mess up and hit it too hard sending the station of ship you are trying to dock spinning away?? I am making a station in orbit and i was trying to dock a rather large piece to it and blam! A piece hits the main station part and it starts to spin out of control. I see NO RCS jets fire to stop it from spinning, UNTIL i jump into that station SO What i suggest is this.}

_{A Station or ship that you are not in is bumped, it will fire RCS or spin up or down reaction wheels to prevent movement from how it was positioned when you left it. PROVIDED the following are true;}

1. _{There is a Kerbalnaut on-board, or AI (probe device).}
   
2. _{There is power in the station.}
   
3. _{The station has Monopropellent on-board.}
   
4. 
   

_{I feel that this is something that is really needed and should be placed into the game standard and not something hacked in by a mod.}

_{So what i am looking for is placing a station or ship in a certain position/orientation and it will maintain that position, until it runs out of fuel, power, or it has no one to control it by means of a Kerbalnaut or by device. If it needs to use process power to do this, maybe if your not around it, it rotates and stuff like normal but once its in your view once more it starts to maintain its orientation.}

_{What do you guys think is this something at should be looked at for the game since stations, satellites, and shuttles all do this in real life. OR should we still have to suffer with it as it is now?}

_{Also if there is a mod out there that does this already please link it here so that i can get it. I didn't look for it yet, but if there is a mod i would still like it to be in the game normal and not as i put it, "hacked into the game as a mod". Thank you!}

Due to the explaining more of how the game works i am changing this to the following ;

What i want is a system that IF you set RCS, and SAS/ Smart A.S.S. you leave to go make a new ship. Launch it up and try to dock, that you don't have to jump ship to ship and reset RCS and SAS/ Smart A.S.S. then jump back and wait for each ship to load. Basicly You make a station you get it into orbit, set RCS and SAS to on. Return to space center, goto space hanger make a Single stage to orbit ship, fly into space and move to your station. While docking you make a noob mistake and bump the station. The game goes "Oh this station has its RCS and SAS on" And the station (provided it has power, RCS fuel, and a kerbalnaut or AI) fires its RCS, or spins up, or down its stabilization wheels to stop the station from spinning out of control. All this happens WITHOUT having to jump into station wait to load the station parts, Set them and then jump back out, wait, THEN dock.

For some people that have LARGE piece stations this is a godsend as they won't have to wait for 1000 plus parts to load and can just dock and wait once for them all to load after docked.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Damaske
Change of goal.

[Tw1]

I'm not quite sure what you're proposing.

We already have SAS, which does what you're suggesting. If stuff goes spinning away, you're coming in much too fast when docking.

You'll improve with time

One cheaty trick you could employ is timewarping very briefly, this stops all rotation.

If you're looking for something that can orient the ship at the press of a few buttons, the most common system is mechjeb, which also includes telemetry and autopilot systems.

BTW, this game was build to let mods be added, nothing is "Hacked into the game."

It's very mod friendly .

Edited November 3, 2013 by Tw1

[boomerdog2000]

Yeah as long as SAS is enabled on the station it will fight any sort of rotation your docking imparts on it. What you should be asking is if you hit it hard enough to overcome the SAS why are you docking so fast?

[Sirrobert]

You probably didn't turn on SAS when you left.

Without automatic attitude control, how is the station suposed to know when it should and should not do something?

Use mechjeb smart ASS for easy attitude control.

[Damaske]

I want it to to actively hold its position WHEN NOT INSIDE that ship. So if your moving to dock something and you bump it, your not forced to back off stop your current ship, JUMP into the now spinning ship to stop it, then jump back into what your docking. I also redid the first post to be clear what i am looking for. I know aboot mechjeb and use it on all the things that leave the ground, and some that don't.

I've left making sure that RCS, SAS, Or Smart A.S.S. is on, and then bump it and away it spins. Maybe i'll try it again and see if its changed. I know that once i jump into a ship from another RCS, SAS, and mechjeb stabilizers are off and i have to turn em back on.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Damaske

[Sirrobert]

I want it to to actively hold its position WHEN NOT INSIDE that ship. So if your moving to dock something and you bump it, your not forced to back off stop your current ship, JUMP into the now spinning ship to stop it, then jump back into what your docking.

Switch to station, turn on SAS, switch back to your ship and start docking.

As the last 3 posts have already told you...

Also a good tip: Don't bump into your station

[Damaske]

Switch to station, turn on SAS, switch back to your ship and start docking.

As the last 3 posts have already told you...

I CAN try to jump to the station and do that. BUUUUUT it will not have the same postion as i left it in. as in If i want the longer end pointing toward the object i am in orbit around, for example. Right now i'd have to move it into place once more, its a pain in the neck having to do that with a rather large station that is made up of docked sections. were as IF it would hold that postion as with mechjeb's smart ass BUT WITHOUT you having to be INSIDE the station.

Also a good tip: Don't bump into your station

Naw really? not to seam like a troll but that would be the best thing to do BUT its not always possible when you are using two docked craft, one a tug to move your station piece into place and the station piece itself.

[Superfluous J]

If i want the longer end pointing toward the object i am in orbit around, for example.

There's your problem. Don't aim at the planet you're orbiting around. Aim at your normal vector. For an equatorial orbit (which most orbits are) that means you want to aim your docking port North or South. To find your normal vector in a non-equatorial orbit, just make a maneuver node anywhere along your orbit, and pull up or down on one of the two triangles. Aim your docking port so it's right on that maneuver marker (but don't burn of course) and then feel free to delete the node.

As you orbit around, the direction "toward the object you're orbiting" changes. The direction "toward the normal vector" doesn't.

[Sirrobert]

I CAN try to jump to the station and do that. BUUUUUT it will not have the same postion as i left it in. as in If i want the longer end pointing toward the object i am in orbit around, for example. Right now i'd have to move it into place once more, its a pain in the neck having to do that with a rather large station that is made up of docked sections. were as IF it would hold that postion as with mechjeb's smart ass BUT WITHOUT you having to be INSIDE the station.

Not possible without permanent station keeping. And when the station is out of range of whatever you are controlling, it goes on rails and it's physics won't be calculated. No physics, no station keeping

[Damaske]

There's your problem. Don't aim at the planet you're orbiting around. Aim at your normal vector. For an equatorial orbit (which most orbits are) that means you want to aim your docking port North or South. To find your normal vector in a non-equatorial orbit, just make a maneuver node anywhere along your orbit, and pull up or down on one of the two triangles. Aim your docking port so it's right on that maneuver marker (but don't burn of course) and then feel free to delete the node.

As you orbit around, the direction "toward the object you're orbiting" changes. The direction "toward the normal vector" doesn't.

SO the best bet here is to have to longer end of the station running along the retro and pro grade of the orbit itself and not make it adjust itself all the time to the orbiting bodies center. As it is now, the station in question is a long center piece with four arms. so if i was to place one arm toward the plant/moon, the other away and others up and down, would it keep like that as it moves around in orbit or will it still tumble as it orbits along? By tumble i mean not hold its position along the orbit as one side its front it pointing in the direction of the orbit, and the other side its points the opposite of the direction of travel?

Not possible without permanent station keeping. And when the station is out of range of whatever you are controlling, it goes on rails and it's physics won't be calculated. No physics, no station keeping

Ok what about a mod, or something that tracks were it was last facing before getting "railed" and once its off the "rail" it moves itself back to how it was last facing.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Damaske

[Superfluous J]

There's your problem. Don't aim at the planet you're orbiting around. Aim at your normal vector. For an equatorial orbit (which most orbits are) that means you want to aim your docking port North or South. To find your normal vector in a non-equatorial orbit, just make a maneuver node anywhere along your orbit, and pull up or down on one of the two triangles. Aim your docking port so it's right on that maneuver marker (but don't burn of course) and then feel free to delete the node.

As you orbit around, the direction "toward the object you're orbiting" changes. The direction "toward the normal vector" doesn't.

SO the best bet here is to have to longer end of the station running along the retro and pro grade of the orbit itself and not make it adjust itself all the time to the orbiting bodies center. As it is now, the station in question is a long center piece with four arms. so if i was to place one arm toward the plant/moon, the other away and others up and down, would it keep like that as it moves around in orbit or will it still tumble as it orbits along? By tumble i mean not hold its position along the orbit as one side its front it pointing in the direction of the orbit, and the other side its points the opposite of the direction of travel?

No. You don't want to aim at the planet. You don't want to aim away from the planet. You don't want to aim prograde. You don't want to aim retrograde. You want to aim at the NORMAL vectors, which are (for most orbits) North and South.

Your station (unless you bumped it) isn't tumbling, and spinning once around each orbit. It's aimed in the same direction! As you orbit the planet, the direction you're MOVING changes. Look at the Sun when you're in orbit and you'll notice that it isn't moving relative to your station.

There are only two directions that don't change on your navball as you orbit. Those are the Normal vectors. "Normal" here doesn't mean "typical" or "ordinary." It means perpendicular to your motion.

[Damaske]

I know what you are saying and that is what I mean by tumbling, it seams to tumble (rotate) thought out the orbit.

But I used the notion of points toward the planet and others as a reference to THAT one moment. It will still rotate but it will not spin the arms that I faced in the four directions as with the longer base of the station. Think of a jack how its an X with an I going right thought the crossed point while the X is laying down.

[boomerdog2000]

So if you know the station turns around the planet, and that is how stations work, and you know which direction to point the station, what are you asking exactly? Your OP seemed to suggest you were talking about SAS not keeping your station steady when you hit it, which it does.

[ravener]

I think op wants the station to keep its orientation relative to the surface...

[Superfluous J]

I think op wants the station to keep its orientation relative to the surface...

I agree.

It's not going to happen though because that would involve rotating a ship automatically and magically.

[Superfluous J]

I just thought of a way to do this. Install the KOS mod and put the module on both of your ships. On the station, you can then lock your heading to prograde and on the ship, you can lock your heading to retrograde. Bonus: You don't need to turn at all your ships will just keep their alignments.

(I haven't tested this, but I don't see why it wouldn't work)

[Sirrobert]

I just thought of a way to do this. Install the KOS mod and put the module on both of your ships. On the station, you can then lock your heading to prograde and on the ship, you can lock your heading to retrograde. Bonus: You don't need to turn at all your ships will just keep their alignments.

(I haven't tested this, but I don't see why it wouldn't work)

That should work. Prograde does keep it's orientation relative to the surface.

You'll need an infinite supply or RCS fuel, or alot of reaction wheels though (and power.)

Also it's still not going to work while it's on rails

[Superfluous J]

That should work. Prograde does keep it's orientation relative to the surface.

You'll need an infinite supply or RCS fuel, or alot of reaction wheels though (and power.)

Also it's still not going to work while it's on rails

Shouldn't need RCS to keep aiming prograde around Kerbin even if you're turning a full orange tank with an OKTO. And no it work work for on rails but I think OP's biggest gripe is docking.

[Damaske]

Not just for docking, I get sick and tired of aligning the station to be in one direction and then come back to it and its changed direct in all three axis. I added in the docking part as that was irritating. That and i get tired of having to turn on the RCS, and SAS when i left the ship with them on. Why does KSP NOT remember that part? That way if your leave one parked with its RCS and SAS ON you don't have to spend the extras 3 minutes changing to another ship waiting for it to load, set them, jump back to the first ship, wait to load, and THEN dock.

[Sirrobert]

Not just for docking, I get sick and tired of aligning the station to be in one direction and then come back to it and its changed direct in all three axis. I added in the docking part as that was irritating. That and i get tired of having to turn on the RCS, and SAS when i left the ship with them on. Why does KSP NOT remember that part? That way if your leave one parked with its RCS and SAS ON you don't have to spend the extras 3 minutes changing to another ship waiting for it to load, set them, jump back to the first ship, wait to load, and THEN dock.

It does not remember 'that part' because 'that part' is not how orbits work.

Your station is always pointing in the exact same direction. It's KERBIN that is somewhere else releative to the station.

If you are standing infront your someone, looking north. Than you move to the other side of that person, and keep looking north. Now suddenly your BACK is facing that person. Same thing with your station.

And even if you had attitude control keeping it facing the surface, that would change as soon as you leave the craft, because physics stop working than. AND THUS IT CAN'T CHANGE ORIENTATION.

The only orientation that always stays the same (if you are on equatorial orbit) is North/South. So if you want to dock easy, align according to that

[Damaske]

I've came back to my station and they have moved on ALL three axis, Not just it moving to the other side of the planet. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR SAYING, HOWEVER what i am wanting no one can wrap there head around as they are going for the easy way out. Let me try one last time here.

What i want is a system that IF you set RCS, and SAS/ Smart A.S.S. you leave to go make a new ship. Launch it up and try to dock, that you don't have to jump ship to ship and reset RCS and SAS/ Smart A.S.S. then jump back and wait for each ship to load.

I understand more now than what i posted in my OP, and add in the above. Since what i wanted in my OP CAN NOT be done due to how the physics of the game works.

[kurja]

You're saying that if you leave a craft (station, whatever) in orbit with navball pointing directly north, when you go back to KSC and then back to that craft, it is no longer pointing towards north? It should.

[Superfluous J]

Yeah if you're talking about your station not staying aligned to the normal vectors (north/south usually) then yes, the game already does that. If yours doesn't you either have a bug to report or a mod screwing with your game in a weird way.

We can't wrap our heads around your problem for 2 reasons:

1) It's a very very common misconception.

2) You are saying your game does not work the way that the game works for us.

[Sirrobert]

I've came back to my station and they have moved on ALL three axis, Not just it moving to the other side of the planet. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR SAYING, HOWEVER what i am wanting no one can wrap there head around as they are going for the easy way out. Let me try one last time here.

What i want is a system that IF you set RCS, and SAS/ Smart A.S.S. you leave to go make a new ship. Launch it up and try to dock, that you don't have to jump ship to ship and reset RCS and SAS/ Smart A.S.S. then jump back and wait for each ship to load.

I understand more now than what i posted in my OP, and add in the above. Since what i wanted in my OP CAN NOT be done due to how the physics of the game works.

Since noone gets it, maybe you should try explain it better? Try a picture, I heard those are worth a thousand words

SAS holds the ship's attitude. If you come back to a ship after it's been moved, it will hold the new attitude. Not the old one

[Damaske]

Yeah if you're talking about your station not staying aligned to the normal vectors (north/south usually) then yes, the game already does that. If yours doesn't you either have a bug to report or a mod screwing with your game in a weird way.

We can't wrap our heads around your problem for 2 reasons:

1) It's a very very common misconception.

2) You are saying your game does not work the way that the game works for us.

I've gone back and redid the OP, I hope that it stats better what i wanted, As for the station not facing the same before it was a station that was upright in its orbit (as best i can get it.) i think it was north south. I left it to make a new section for it and once i got up there is was slowly spinning froward and 45 degrees from upright position. And once i got closer i can tell that is was also in a clockwise spin. If the game remembers if RCS/SAS is one and holds it position what would cause the station to do something like that? The station was only the middle part and i had no arms attached to it. However the middle piece did contain a modded part from Davon supply mod, and was in the current build sandbox mode.

If this is not a bug, or something that i am just missing then the only thing i can think of was a random space junk strike, as i did see a few fly past me as i was getting closer to the station. Since then i have been cleaning up the junk with the tracking station. On a side note, i just thought of a mod that might be cool. A guided missile or weapon system that you can fire from the ground and hit orbiting space junk destroying it.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Damaske