(OLD) The Ultimate Jool-5 Challenge:land Kerbals on all moons and return in one big mission

[Norcurion]

Some hints with the plane:

Center of lift about the length of a roundyfied RCS tank behind the center of mass and the rear wheels shortly behind the CoM and your good to go... Gives you a pretty stable plane that is forgiving

Put a little engine on it so you can get a stable height about 200 meters a short way even befor the runway and keep that height. When your finally over the runway just switch the engine of. And don't use toooo much wings or take B9 airbrakes with you;)

When you start Rockets with aircrafts at the top, don't forget to add even mooooaaar wings at the bottom of the first stage or otherwise you'll have no fun

[Ziv]

Remember it has 6200dV running on nukes only. It only needs aerospikes on the heavier bodies.

Aye, right. I'm designing my SSTO and I use the same technique, assigning the different engines and stuff to Action Group buttons...

[Norcurion]

I'm trying a assymetric kethane lander, but i've got a tonn of problems to solve. First concept (with about 15 tonns of ballast simulating the kethane equipment.)

Edited March 8, 2014 by Norcurion

[SSSPutnik]

Lol space 1999 style. Very hard to fly. Its freaking huge too!

What's its weight?

[Ogre]

I'm starting an attempt at this mission. I've already basically done it once, but it required a second ship to get everyone back to Kerbin's surface once I had the mission in Kerbin orbit again. So, didn't bother posting it even though I was proud of it. This one is going to be legit. I am going for Jebediah's level, without a lab module. I am bringing all the experiments home, only broadcasting crew reports and EVAs for each moon.

I've launched a nearly identical version of this whole stack to test my Kerbin landing (Worked fine), and I've landed a similar lander on Tylo, and got it back to orbit. This lander has slightly more ∆V because that one just barely made it to a 16km orbit!

Laythe is a worry. The lander's got parachutes. But I haven't tested it in atmosphere at all and I'm not sure the ∆V is there to both deorbit and get back. It's staged for Tylo, and if I can keep the last separable stage on it I should be just fine for Laythe, otherwise it might be iffy. I'll most likely decide that at Tylo itself depending how that landing goes.

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Questions:

- Which game versions did you use?

0.23

- What mods did you use, if any?

Computing mods only, stock parts otherwise:

MechJeb (I plot most maneuvers myself, but I let it run the burns)

Docking Port Alignment

Protractor

Kerbal Engineer Redux (only in VAB)

Editor Extensions (obviously only in VAB)

- How many launches was needed to start your mission from Kerbal?

Single launch not counting any refueling.

- How many refueling did you do during the mission, how much and where?

Almost certainly one refueling. Maybe two. (Realized during my Kerbin escape burn it's almost certainly two or more, kinda forgot I built asparagus staging into the command module, but I'm not dropping stages until the return trip! Lots less ∆V than I was thinking, but I'll still be able to finish, just need to a tanker or two out there. I might have one that'll provide enough fuel for two refuelings by itself. Maybe.)

- Did you bring a Living Quarter (Hitch-hiker's Storage) for the guys during the long journey?

Yes. Two lander cans and one hitchhiker. Room for 6 Kerbals, but only bringing 5.

- Did you bring additional stuff like satellites, rovers, etc?

No. Five complete science packages (one of them special for Laythe) is it. A lander. A command module. All necessary for the mission.

- Share the delta-V informations too, if you tracked it!

Can't promise I'll be good about updating this, and the numbers are bit off due to my backwards mounted lander, but I started a spreadsheet:

Google Docs Link

Edited March 9, 2014 by Ogre

[Speeding Mullet]

I've moved onto the Kethane Expedition. I noticed you'd added some advice as follows:

Advice: don't try to maximize the points because you will end up with a huge lagging ship.

Whoops...

I'll be posting my progress soon. I don't know whether to laugh or cry!

[Ogre]

Oh man, this was hilarious. Landed on Tylo, got out of the lander can... and couldn't go down the ladder because my helmet was too big and got caught on a fuel line. Well, I just jumped instead, but you see where this is going, as did I! Did all my science, planted a flag, and couldn't get back up the ladder for the same reason. It's Tylo, so I can't just boost and jump up to the hatch, too much gravity.

Well, after some cursing and trying to force my way through, I tried instead scrambling up one of my lander's legs up over a fuel tank and to the hatch. OMG it worked. First try I shot past the hatch but saw "[F] to grab" message as I did. Second try I managed to grab hold and get back to (relative) safety. Probably going to have to repeat that procedure on Laythe. The rest shouldn't be a problem.

I decided to keep the last stage for my Laythe deorbit. That was maybe a mistake. The result of is that my lander is in a 11km AP 7km PE orbit. I used all my RCS fuel at the end just to get to that orbit too. It's dead in the water, but the command ship is en route to fetch it right now. It'll be fine... as long as there aren't any 7km mountains in the way. Gulp. I might be starting this mission over sometime soon

I'm cutting it way, way closer than intended on this trip. But if I can get everything back to a safe Tylo orbit I'll be in GREAT shape.

[SSSPutnik]

Sounds like you're on top of it. 11km ain't too bad except for the scary view.

[SV-ESK]

I have a problem. Tylo lander was docked to the lab at the low Kerbin orbit without any problems.

But 1156 days later when it's time to use it I cant undock it.

May I use whack-a-kerbal for explosive undocking? I guess kerbals have some instruments, sledgehammer or so, to strike jammed docking port.

Or may be anyone know how to deal with this bug without any cheats?

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[SSSPutnik]

Did you try quitting and reloading save?

Possibly try controlling from another point?

[SV-ESK]

Quitting and reloading save does not help. Loading previous saves on Vall orbit does not help. Undocking other ports before try to undock this also does not help. Controlling from another point and removing Jeb from chair does not help.

2.5m docking ports between core and LV-N engines module also jammed. And both T800(long 1.25m) tanks. Two other T800 tanks had undocked on Sun orbit a long time ago without problems.

Edited March 10, 2014 by SV-ESK

[SSSPutnik]

Try asking in gameplay question area.

[Ziv]

I have a problem. Tylo lander was docked to the lab at the low Kerbin orbit without any problems.

But 1156 days later when it's time to use it I cant undock it.

May I use whack-a-kerbal for explosive undocking? I guess kerbals have some instruments, sledgehammer or so, to strike jammed docking port.

Or may be anyone know how to deal with this bug without any cheats?

http://imgur.com/a/Y1Znn

Sure, you are allowed to repair it somehow if it doesn't alter your ship's structure.

[Kasuha]

I'd recommend to try to fix it in the persistence file (with appropriate backups).

[JedTech]

$@%#@# Tylo!!!

[JedTech]

So part of my plan to land on Tylo, was to use one of my Moon Tugs as a stage that I would drop. However the Moon Tug has a very low Thrust to Weight ratio.

After many hours of attempts I finally was able to utilize the Moon Tug well enough to preserve enough fuel in my main lander for Ascent to orbit. And then I land and go out to EVA, and Jeb accidentally falls off the lander and dies... Load Quick Save.

I was finally able to complete the mission.. (although I broke 3 of 4 landing gear during the landing).

I hate Tylo. I'm never coming back.

[SV-ESK]

Thanks for replies. I have tried to edit savefile to fix docking ports, but my problem is a little bit different. Both ports have correct state and dockUId. And both have not DOCKEDVESSEL module. And both root parts was lost. Tylo lander's root was T800 tank, that have been decoupled and docked to core separately, and then this tank was undocked and burned in kerbin's atmosphere. Core ship's root is orbiting Kerbin now. Tylo/Vall/Laythe crew cabin's root part was left on Vall surface. I have tried to look to unbugged ports and copy DOCKEDVESSEL from it. And have tried to burn bugged port on lab, then redock Tylo lander to another port and copy DOCKEDVESSEL from this configuration. but it failed too.

Finally I have installed KAS, made this MM config:

@PART[dockingPort2]
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = KASModuleGrab
		evaPartPos = (0.0, 0.0, -0.20)
		evaPartDir = (0,0,-1)
		storable = true
		storedSize = 50
		attachOnPart = True
		attachOnEva = False
		attachOnStatic = False
		attachSendMsgOnly = False
	}
}

And then grab and reattach back bugged port. Thus it Tylo lander finally has been decoupled from core without cheating and savefile shamanism.

Edited March 10, 2014 by SV-ESK

[Ogre]

Updates to my post (new pictures in that post):

I retrieved my lander successfully and moved up to a far less nerve wracking orbit. Then I launched a new tanker design, 10 full orange tanks and 15 LV-Ns in Kerbin orbit. Sent it to meet my mission at Tylo, and topped off all the tanks. The tanker's still sitting at Tylo with some fuel, but not enough for a complete refueling. We'll see after the rest of the moons if I need to send another tanker out.

I now have the mission in Laythe's SoI about to aerobrake/burn into orbit. I don't expect a lot of trouble with Laythe since I managed to keep that one extra stage intact on my lander (which is the entire reason I had so much trouble with Tylo). Though taking off from Tylo revealed it's really not balanced well at all. I have to keep the RCS on to keep it pointed the right way when all three engines are going. But I only need the one central aerospike this time, and I'll be dropping that last stage probably during or after my deorbit burn. Hopefully it'll be steady after that.

Laythe tonight, more moons tomorrow, home later in the week.

Edit: Laythe down, three moons to go. Pictures uploaded. Went very smoothly. As suspected, the lander is far more stable without the extra tanks. It's still not quite balanced and lists slightly, but can be kept under control without RCS now.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Ogre

[Speeding Mullet]

+5 living space for one Kerbal (doesn't have to be occupied, can be reserved for future missions)

When you get a chance can you clarify this rule so I can track points correctly. Is it a maximum of five points per moon, or is that five points per crew space of part per moon?

Thanks!

[Ziv]

it's 5 points for each, so cumulative.

[SSSPutnik]

Ziv, just a heads up, the LLL airlocks have a ridiculous crew count.

(I think you can fit like 5 in an airlock).

Don't worry, I am not counting the airlock in the challenge but thought you should be aware.

[Norcurion]

Lol space 1999 style. Very hard to fly. Its freaking huge too!

What's its weight?

234 Tonns wet, 75 tonns dry(15 tonns payload, 11 tonns living and cockpit), dV ~4000...

it's just a techdemo. I'm able to drain the tanks to about 15% before it starts flipping. And the mass of the engines lets the COM drop a little bit when those tanks are near empty, stupid to use nukes on a ship with a shifting COM... and it needs trimming tanks

and i fear that ill have to build it even bigger with the kethane stuff + nukes + other fancy space equipment on board. And reduce the living space... (2 hitchhiker : cool, 7 tonns of payload more: not good)

I'm thinking of implementing infernal robotics and make the engine mounts rotate backwards in space solving the CoM-problem...

But this will take a while

Edited March 11, 2014 by Norcurion

[NecroBones]

Congratulations!

- Some pictures are pitch black to me. It's a good idea to pay attention to sufficient light in the scene when you're making screenshots.

I think Imgur is limiting the rate at which you can look at the photos, or something. If you wait a short time and come back, they start loading again. None of them are actualy black.

[Ziv]

Ziv, just a heads up, the LLL airlocks have a ridiculous crew count.

(I think you can fit like 5 in an airlock).

Don't worry, I am not counting the airlock in the challenge but thought you should be aware.

Hm, maybe allowing LLL was a mistake, if the airlock's size is not proportional to the number of Kerbals it can house... Can you show me a picture about the airlocks with some Kerbals to compare their sizes?

[SSSPutnik]

Hm, maybe allowing LLL was a mistake, if the airlock's size is not proportional to the number of Kerbals it can house... Can you show me a picture about the airlocks with some Kerbals to compare their sizes?

Hey now, settle down Haha...

No crew are living/residing in the hatch. It's only used to EVA Kerbals out of the cabin area.

(Which DOES have a sane crew count (4), it's basically identical to a Hitchiker unit. (0.1 t less weight but no windows, no ladders etc, basically its just a cylinder, you need to add a hatch / airlock to EVA, (0.05t / 0.1t) (Using airlock makes it mass equivalent to a Hitchiker and same crew capacity) (except for stupid airlock itself).

Here is a pic of the offending airlock unit. It can hold eight, (8!?!) kerbals. Anyone using it to cheat should be hung drawn and quartered. (This is the rectangular part, attached to a 1 kerbal 1.25m hull part).