Jump to content

(OLD) The Ultimate Jool-5 Challenge:land Kerbals on all moons and return in one big mission

Ziv

By Ziv
in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas

 Share

Recommended Posts

SV-ESK

SV-ESK

Posted
Posted

Finally, it's done.

Jeb level. Stock parts. 8 Kerbals(two containers). Two kerbals on each landing. 20889 total science gained(only Jool and its moons science). A lot of gravity assist, EVA and spaceplane masochism.

Sorry for my bad English. I'm trying to learn it, but it's a little bit harder than flying on Jool.

Mods used: EditorExtensions, SelectRoot, KER, KAC, EnhancedNavBall, NavBallDockingAlignmentIndicator, MultipleSavesDA, AlternateResourcePanel, Toolbar, UniverseReplacer, Chatterer, FinalFrontier(but have not shown results, because it is 0.3.1 bugged version, that forgot almost all).

TacFuelBalancer(only for fast pump and balance. No dumping, no pumping when engines throttled up,no cheaty refuelling)

KAS installed on 1156 day to fix jammed docking port.(Unable to undock).

ModuleManager(made 1.25 port grabable to fix bug, added KER and blue sas indicator to command pods, added Hitch-hiker's internals to lab):


@PART[dockingPort2]
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = KASModuleGrab
		evaPartPos = (0.0, 0.0, -0.20)
		evaPartDir = (0,0,-1)
		storable = true
		storedSize = 50
		attachOnPart = True
		attachOnEva = False
		attachOnStatic = False
		attachSendMsgOnly = False
	}
}
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand]]
{
	@module = CommandPod
	%stagingIcon = COMMAND_POD
	MODULE
	{
		name = BuildEngineer
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = FlightEngineer
	}
}
@PART[Large_Crewed_Lab]
{
	INTERNAL
	{
	  name = crewCabinInternals
	}
}

Only stock parts.

6 launches from runway with 4 docking on it.

No refueling missions after leaving Kerbin low orbit.

No orbital debris, including deep space probe-debris

Science plan:

Low orbit, high orbit Jool and all its moons

All surfaces, of course.

Ocean and low atmosphere on Laythe.

High atmosphere on Laythe and Jool(Failed. It seems periapsis must be less than 0, to do it).

Double all science. I usually bring two experiments (two surface samples, two surface goo observe, etc) on my scientific missions.

dV/Route:

Kerbin low orbit -> Eve gravity assist -> Kerbin gravity assist -> Kerbin gravity assist again -> Jool aerobraking = 1255 m/s (1120 m/s to get Eve(three burns on Kerbin periapsis), 110 to raise sun apoapsis on first Kerbin gravity assist, some small 0.6-12 m/s correction burns)

After Jool aerobraking 6 m/s correction to Laythe aerobraking.

On Laythe 1.6 m/s burn to put apoapsis inside Laythe SOI and 10 m/s to raise periapsis above atmosphere.

--[spaceplane: landing and return to orbit(no dV data). 550 m/s total from sub-orbital to rendezvous and docking with main ship.]

12 m/s to Vall intercept, 368 m/s burn to put apoapsis inside Vall SOI.

--[Vall lander: 1258 m/s to land from high-eccentricity orbit. 881 m/s ascent to 8x12Km orbit. 320 m/s from low orbit to rendezvous and docking with main ship.]

3 m/s to Tylo intercept, 35 m/s burn to put apoapsis inside Tylo SOI.

--[Tylo lander: approximately 3800 m/s to land from hihg-eccentricity orbit. 2400 m/s ascent to 11x12Km orbit. 782 m/s to try rendezvous with main ship. EVA rendezvous and returning to main ship]

3 m/s to Jool orbit, 20 m/s to Pol intercept. 312 m/s burn to put apoapsis inside Pol SOI.

--[Pol landing ~200 m/s, EVA return from surface to main ship]

--[second Extreme EVA: landing and return to main ship.]

1 m/s to Jool orbit, 110 m/s to Bop intercept. 200 m/s to 23x21Km orbit.

--[bop landing ~300, m/s EVA return from surface to main ship] Spoiler.

--[second Extreme EVA: landing and return to main ship.]

70 m/s to Jool orbit. 115 m/s to Tylo and Laythe gravity assist that throws ship on Jool high-eccentricity orbit.

11 m/s to Tylo gravity assist and 31 m/s burn on Tylo periapsis to intercept Kerbin.(Not so good gravity assist. But I'm so tired of this mission, and performed the first got maneuver to finish mission, finally.)

0.1 m/s to finetune Kebin aerobraking periapsis.

Mission could end on this, but I have no parachutes.

350 m/s to rendezvous with spaceplane on Kerbin low orbit, docking to it, landing on runway.

Thus, 1255m/s total to get Jool 1152 m/s total for cruising main ship around Jool 157 m/s total to return from Jool to Kerbin aerobraking.

But please remember: this Challenge is already pretty hard on its own, so the main goal is not beating others but looking for good and creative solutions, sharing ideas and experiences, doing some great engineering and having fun! :)

Assembling:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

From Kerbin low orbit to Jool aerobrake

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Laythe

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Vall

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Tylo

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Pol

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Bop

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Return

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Should I replace albums with links to them to reduce post lenght?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Alchemist

Alchemist

Posted
Posted
Massive ship and boosters Alchemist. You could trim the video a bit, its a little long for comfortable viewing but nicely done. (Or maybe I am just impatient). Cheers.

Probably, it's a bit too long for just a bunch of dockings, bit it already was extreme amount of editing. Just wait for the Laythe episode, it's more action-packed... and starts with almost running into wall Vall. Well, I actually just clipped its SOI a bit (but given the size of it's SOI...), but it wasn't recognized on the map, so it was a bit scary when I saw it approaching the same place at the same time.

The lander is so big only because of Tylo (and it is 2-stage for that landing, however it's possible that it can do it as single-stage, just I won't need these side parts after that - all this will transform in something much more compact). I'm thinking that for Laythe there could be another attachable equipment, so that it could be much lighter for that landing (going to Tylo first and then Laythe gear is attached)... Maybe I'll play another version of this when 0.24 comes out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SSSPutnik

SSSPutnik

Posted
Posted (edited)

@Ziv - Working on Kethane challenge.

What counts as your "main ship" ? Say I had a small return craft, basically a cab and ion engines etc. I detach that from my lander and park it in orbit somewhere, (I don't want to pay deltaV penalty for it on every landing) which is way more massive. (ie is main ship defined by its dry weight or?)

Edited by SSSPutnik
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ziv

Ziv

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Hey Ziv,

Laythe: I've added my Laythe swimming photos (I didn't get a great shot of Jool in the background (I tried to timewarp and wait but I think Jool must have been directly overhead)

Tylo: Funny story, its in that angle on purpose. On my first EVA my ship was tilted in the other direction and I was able to climb the ladder down the ladder just fine. I was then able to climb back up the ladder, but upon reaching the platform on the ship, I would just fall off. SO, I got on the ladder, and then I raised the rear landing leg (as you can see in the picture). This gave me an angle that allowed me to finish climbing on the ladder and then slide toward the hatch door to grab a hold of it. I then did a second EVA with the leg still raised (this is when the picture was taken). To get back on, I raised the leg, got on the ladder and repeated the same steps again.

Refueling Mission: I think I misinterpreted what a refueling mission was. I did not have a refueling mission that went to Jool. I just had 1 fueling mission on Kerbin to dedicated to topping off my tanks before the base left for Jool. (see picture with the long tanks attached to the top left docking port of my base)

Science Points: I've added the science points pictures. Here is the break down:

9683.7 SP was brought home in the Lab (attached to the Jool base)

120 SP received from bringing the Lander home from Bop (the last moon I landed on)

16.8 SP gathered from extra science I performed while parachuting in a Kerbin Biome

2863 SP gathered via transmission of science points. These were only for science points that are not required for the challenge (High/near orbit stuff).

(please subtract as needed if some of these do not meet your criteria)

Thanks for the compliments Speeding Mullet!

During my EVA on Pol I didn't attempt any amazing Pol circumnavigation stunts. I just flew a few Kilometers (5.5) to the nearest mountain top.

Hi jmanidb, Congratulation, you have finished the JOOL-5 mission on Jebediah's Level! Thanks for the updates! Yeah, the ladder seems a little unimportant part but can ruin the mission if the Kerbal can't get back into the Pod on Laythe or Tylo... this is why I asked this.

And yes, you get science points only for science landed back at Kerbin, so it is 9803,7 for your mission. Nice job, thank you for participating! :)

oh, and one more question: how did you undock the lower part of your ship seen here:

http://i.imgur.com/hPmBVNH.png

..because there's only one docking port there...?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JedTech

JedTech

Posted
Posted

oh, and one more question: how did you undock the lower part of your ship seen here:

http://i.imgur.com/hPmBVNH.png

..because there's only one docking port there...?

There are 2 senior sized docking ports on the lander in that picture. Both are facing downwards. The small bottom section is a drop-able fuel tank. It is coupled with the lander and not docked to it. Does that make sense? I'm not sure if i answered your question.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ziv

Ziv

Posted
  • Author
Posted
http://imgur.com/a/4nXzH

Here is my entry to the Jeb-level subchallenge (?) - the lowest mass on pad to all Joolian moons. It is 31.355 tons on the pad (the imgur album has an incorrect title, apologies). I hope this is in accordance with all the rules, I had to jetpack one moon, and the lander was basically a tank with a lawnchair.

Edit:

I used flight engineer, and I had tac lifesupport installed, but it was not active in the save. On launch, I had certain tanks empty (one by mistake, but it turned out just fine), to save weight (thanks to the tweakables). It would be possible to save another ton in the ascent stage, since I had some fuel left over there before I dumped it in Kerbins atmosphere.

Mike the Mechanic: Congratulations, you have finished the Low-mass Challenge and now leads the board with 31.355 tons! This is just awesome. Nice solutions! By the way I was progressing well with my 36 tons mission so I hate to see this! :D How did you manage to land on Bop and go back to orbit with Jetpacks? I tried that too but wasn't successful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike the Mechanic

Mike the Mechanic

Posted
Posted
Mike the Mechanic: Congratulations, you have finished the Low-mass Challenge and now leads the board with 31.355 tons! This is just awesome. Nice solutions! By the way I was progressing well with my 36 tons mission so I hate to see this! :D How did you manage to land on Bop and go back to orbit with Jetpacks? I tried that too but wasn't successful.

Thanks, I'm happy to contribute to a great challenge! Hehe, sorry about that, but if it helps, I'm not planning any more lightweight mission as of now, and my design is not perfect by far ;)

I'm not so proud of the Bop-episode (because I didn't use the lander, feels cheaty) , but the secret is to start in a low orbit (20 km is the lowest I believe) and having the sun shine on your landing site (otherwise you just dissapear in a cloud of smoke all of a sudden). If these requirements are met, you can basically hold s and occasionally brake your fall with shift. Switching to mapmode helps too, but be sure to disable the jet pack, or you may start to spin and loose all the RCS. It took 4 reloads to land Jeb in one piece on Bop, and a lot of precious xenon to retrieve him from orbit.

On another note, how do I get the nice badge you all have? :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ziv

Ziv

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
Finally, it's done.

Jeb level. Stock parts. 8 Kerbals(two containers). Two kerbals on each landing. 20889 total science gained(only Jool and its moons science). A lot of gravity assist, EVA and spaceplane masochism.

Sorry for my bad English. I'm trying to learn it, but it's a little bit harder than flying on Jool.

Mods used: EditorExtensions, SelectRoot, KER, KAC, EnhancedNavBall, NavBallDockingAlignmentIndicator, MultipleSavesDA, AlternateResourcePanel, Toolbar, UniverseReplacer, Chatterer, FinalFrontier(but have not shown results, because it is 0.3.1 bugged version, that forgot almost all).

TacFuelBalancer(only for fast pump and balance. No dumping, no pumping when engines throttled up,no cheaty refuelling)

KAS installed on 1156 day to fix jammed docking port.(Unable to undock).

ModuleManager(made 1.25 port grabable to fix bug, added KER and blue sas indicator to command pods, added Hitch-hiker's internals to lab):


@PART[dockingPort2]
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = KASModuleGrab
		evaPartPos = (0.0, 0.0, -0.20)
		evaPartDir = (0,0,-1)
		storable = true
		storedSize = 50
		attachOnPart = True
		attachOnEva = False
		attachOnStatic = False
		attachSendMsgOnly = False
	}
}
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand]]
{
	@module = CommandPod
	%stagingIcon = COMMAND_POD
	MODULE
	{
		name = BuildEngineer
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = FlightEngineer
	}
}
@PART[Large_Crewed_Lab]
{
	INTERNAL
	{
	  name = crewCabinInternals
	}
}

Only stock parts.

6 launches from runway with 4 docking on it.

No refueling missions after leaving Kerbin low orbit.

No orbital debris, including deep space probe-debris

Science plan:

Low orbit, high orbit Jool and all its moons

All surfaces, of course.

Ocean and low atmosphere on Laythe.

High atmosphere on Laythe and Jool(Failed. It seems periapsis must be less than 0, to do it).

Double all science. I usually bring two experiments (two surface samples, two surface goo observe, etc) on my scientific missions.

dV/Route:

Kerbin low orbit -> Eve gravity assist -> Kerbin gravity assist -> Kerbin gravity assist again -> Jool aerobraking = 1255 m/s (1120 m/s to get Eve(three burns on Kerbin periapsis), 110 to raise sun apoapsis on first Kerbin gravity assist, some small 0.6-12 m/s correction burns)

After Jool aerobraking 6 m/s correction to Laythe aerobraking.

On Laythe 1.6 m/s burn to put apoapsis inside Laythe SOI and 10 m/s to raise periapsis above atmosphere.

--[spaceplane: landing and return to orbit(no dV data). 550 m/s total from sub-orbital to rendezvous and docking with main ship.]

12 m/s to Vall intercept, 368 m/s burn to put apoapsis inside Vall SOI.

--[Vall lander: 1258 m/s to land from high-eccentricity orbit. 881 m/s ascent to 8x12Km orbit. 320 m/s from low orbit to rendezvous and docking with main ship.]

3 m/s to Tylo intercept, 35 m/s burn to put apoapsis inside Tylo SOI.

--[Tylo lander: approximately 3800 m/s to land from hihg-eccentricity orbit. 2400 m/s ascent to 11x12Km orbit. 782 m/s to try rendezvous with main ship. EVA rendezvous and returning to main ship]

3 m/s to Jool orbit, 20 m/s to Pol intercept. 312 m/s burn to put apoapsis inside Pol SOI.

--[Pol landing ~200 m/s, EVA return from surface to main ship]

--[second Extreme EVA: landing and return to main ship.]

1 m/s to Jool orbit, 110 m/s to Bop intercept. 200 m/s to 23x21Km orbit.

--[bop landing ~300, m/s EVA return from surface to main ship] Spoiler.

--[second Extreme EVA: landing and return to main ship.]

70 m/s to Jool orbit. 115 m/s to Tylo and Laythe gravity assist that throws ship on Jool high-eccentricity orbit.

11 m/s to Tylo gravity assist and 31 m/s burn on Tylo periapsis to intercept Kerbin.(Not so good gravity assist. But I'm so tired of this mission, and performed the first got maneuver to finish mission, finally.)

0.1 m/s to finetune Kebin aerobraking periapsis.

Mission could end on this, but I have no parachutes.

350 m/s to rendezvous with spaceplane on Kerbin low orbit, docking to it, landing on runway.

Thus, 1255m/s total to get Jool 1152 m/s total for cruising main ship around Jool 157 m/s total to return from Jool to Kerbin aerobraking.

Assembling:

http://imgur.com/a/Plv8L

From Kerbin low orbit to Jool aerobrake

http://imgur.com/a/ID0C4

Laythe

http://imgur.com/a/hhRbx

Vall

http://imgur.com/a/58GrS

Tylo

http://imgur.com/a/Ix25L

Pol

http://imgur.com/a/P2Hq9

Bop

http://imgur.com/a/rqiCx

Return

http://imgur.com/a/RZd03

Should I replace albums with links to them to reduce post lenght?

SV-ESK: Congratulations, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on Jebediah's Level! But how!!! :D This is a very special mission with a lot of unique solutions, starting with the spaceplane launches... and with the refuelable spaceplane-tug to put every module into orbit! That's Unbelievable!

And I love your design for the spaceplane which consist the other landers too. Your "jumping-climbing" back to the Pod on Tylo is something new too, I didn't know about that possibility. :)

Also the gravity assists are professionals, teaches a lot of things to us, I guess! :) And I'm very happy for your deltaV map, nobody tracked it with so much details!

And you set a new record for the collected Science Points.... afther LANDING two Hitch-hiker Container and a Mobile Lab on the runway...! Unbelievable, really! :D

Thank you for your participating, that was really fun to watch and learn! :cool:

And how did you do that all of your Kerbals have different faces?!? :o

Edited by Ziv
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ziv

Ziv

Posted
  • Author
Posted
@Ziv - Working on Kethane challenge.

What counts as your "main ship" ? Say I had a small return craft, basically a cab and ion engines etc. I detach that from my lander and park it in orbit somewhere, (I don't want to pay deltaV penalty for it on every landing) which is way more massive. (ie is main ship defined by its dry weight or?)

Hehe, good question! For the points, I imagined the main ship as the one which drops the landers to the different moons, or where the Kerbals live who wait the rotation to land, and which has the main engines for the interplanetary travels... or something similar. You disturbed this kind of thinking...! Very appropriate question, even I don't know the answer! :D

Hmm... let's say it's okay to title your small return craft as "main ship" for the orbit/refueling points. You do a special approach to the mission and landing a complete "mining city" is hard enough. :D So it's okay this way. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SSSPutnik

SSSPutnik

Posted
Posted (edited)

Actually, I scrubbed that mission... I will probably end up using a similar design, but I made mistakes...

1) I moved the parachutes INSIDE the fairing, which is nice and all, and will work fine when landing at Kerbin. However, it kind of makes the chutes impossible to use on Laythe since fairing is closed till return craft separates.

2) Running FAR got me- I managed successful landing on Laythe, (despite not having chutes). I was real lucky and found Kethane on land and refuelled. But then problem start.

a) TWR, fully fueled in atmosphere on Laythe was 0.97 oopsy.

B) So I sat there, burning fuel till TWR hit 1.01, then took off... It was like watching one of those nature videos of grass growing sped up hugely, only this one wasn't sped up.

c) I eventually made it to orbit, high drag from a part (FAR being mean) and the huge gravity drag means I got to orbit with basically dry tanks, destined to orbit Laythe forever.

3) My initial Jool aerobrake, because of FAR wasn't low enough, I ended up in a long narrow elliptical orbit which took a ton of dV for me to do anything with.

I did manage to land and refuel and take off from Vall, did Jool Penetrator, dropped sats off, all worked great, then I went to Laythe and above happened. I think Tylo would have been OK and the other moons too, but I screwed up design for Laythe.

Live and learn. The Kethane version of the challenge is actually quite a bit harder than I thought it would be. (To get a decent point score).

I will probably break up the ship a little more in next version.

Your comment about the main craft being the return one... I was hoping you would say by tonnage. The return craft doesn't need any refuelling as it never used any... (Ion powered). I guess I could send it empty of xenon and refuel it using Kethane.... Hmmmmmmm......

Other issues were too many tanks on the craft making it very fiddly to refuel. No lights on the craft, (oops again).

Edited by SSSPutnik
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Speeding Mullet

Speeding Mullet

Posted
Posted

Urgh, I've only just finished Pol operations (1st moon) in my Kethane challenge, I forgot (stunningly) to put RCS on anything important, so all my docking is being done with engines!! I've updated the thread for those that want to check in! The good news is that everything seems to be working as designed, which is great as none of it is tested at all before the mission. The mission should start to speed up now that I've dropped a huge amount of parts in and around the system!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SV-ESK

SV-ESK

Posted
Posted (edited)

Thanks to all. I hope, it was interesting and useful.

And how did you do that all of your Kerbals have different faces?!? :o

TextureReplacer allows you to assign specific head/suit to specific kerbal. But I didn't know about it three weeks ago, and used Universe-Replacer. And swapped heads manually by renaming files. Sometimes.

How did you manage to land on Bop and go back to orbit with Jetpacks? I tried that too but wasn't successful.

Start at low equatorial orbit. Use suicide burn technique, some F5-F9, to determine the right moment. Lithrobraking. Kerbal can survive over 20m/s collision.

High-altitude, near equator landing site. On ascent use Sun, Jool, Flag, main ship, Milky Way as landmarks. Make EVA orbit very close to mainship orbit. Very carefully, with small burns plot intersect orbit. On intersect look on the main ship, imagine where it moves relative EVAed kerbal. Kill relative velocity and carefully, with small burns, return to it. My landing/ascent on Bop is not ideal. It is possible to return with much more fuel.

Edited by SV-ESK
Link to comment
Share on other sites
SSSPutnik

SSSPutnik

Posted
Posted

Have you looked over the designs?

Your best bet is to Google heavy lifter designs for KSP. Everyone says you need a heap of struts but you don't need THAT many if you design well. I think most I have used is like 4 or 6 between any two parts.

One you get in orbit, there is less chance of failure duen to lower stresses. Landing can be stressful too, especially when you pop chutes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Norcurion

Norcurion

Posted
Posted (edited)
I just want to know, how do you DO this? Whenever I try to make a gigantic rocket, it falls apart. When I succeed, I don't have enough fuel.

There are 3 forces working on the ship:

Gravity and Drag vs Engine

fighting drag: in the first few kilometers, don't start to speedy because the drag force has speed to the power of 2 in it - massive problem for the stucture

Gravity : start slow. (~ in my opinion not more than 20 m/s acceleration) before the gravity turn

Engine: There is a point with super heavy lifters when you are in the 3rd stage and still using a mainsail when the full power of it sometimes rippes the rocket apart. Should you encounter structural problems when you are ~30-40 kilometer high and speeding up into orbit, try lower the engine output.

Some design thoughts:

09fPHyt.png

A: Unfortunatly the weight (from drag + weight) that is countered by the engine is set in series:

The green decoupler only has to carry the Capsule. The red has to carry the capsule + the 3rd stage

The green has to carry the capsule and the 3 stage and the second stage and so on.

So the sturdyness of the decoupler (as the weakest link) limit the overall weight of the launch system.

B/C: To take the force out of the decoupler you may (as you certantly know) struts on the cone beneath(very sturdy) and connect them to the stage above (so you take some force from the decoupler to the struts)

When having more boosters aside the main booster, also connect them directly to the stage above.

D: There will be a critical shipmass where even the struts won't help because the decouplers collapse because of shearing forces or simply the fuel tank above will snatch. You may add more boost.. uhhm struts. But adding struts has also a critical point where to many of em start to destabilize the structure. But there is a sollution.

If your Payload is REALLY hugh (like some 4 orange tanks and some nervas), just build the boosters to the side, like in D: for every single booster (n) the payload will have 1/n the weight.

Edited by Norcurion
Link to comment
Share on other sites
This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...