(OLD) The Ultimate Jool-5 Challenge:land Kerbals on all moons and return in one big mission

Cmdr. Arn1e · August 24, 2014

You know I'm starting to think I should make my mothership bigger. I didn't directly accommodate Laythe or Tylo landers in the main design, let alone landers that were large enough to carry a science pod, so I'm worried if I start docking large landing craft onto the sides I'll ruin all the effort I'd put into making it stay structurally sound during 4x physics warp.
May as well post my (early) progress album: http://imgur.com/a/SMYZc
What do you guys think? Bigger? Moar boosters? (It's already in space though...)

Looking good! One thing I would advise is checking the dV/TWR of the complete ship in VAB... unless it's so big assembled that it won't fit!

problemecium · August 24, 2014

Pretty much ^^;

I usually evaluate the TWR and dV of my ships by HyperEditing them out to a high Kerbolar orbit and blasting until flameout, but there's no way I'm going to sit around and wait for all those massive tanks to run out. But I'm pretty confident that if I stick to nuclear engines, those 50,000-odd units of fuel will get me wherever I want to go.

Laie · August 25, 2014

I hereby respectfully submit my entry, for whatever category seems to fit. Probably Jebediah's.

Galleries:

That's possibly not enough pictures, and I've kept it short on the comments, so the galleries should be considered alongside the following

Mission description:

I'm quite fond of that Labrover. It was a given that I'd use it wherever possible. For Laythe, I came up with a simple spaceplane. For Tylo, I tried to somehow attach more thrust to my rover, however, this wouldn't work. Eventually, I put the rover on top of a high-thrust contraption: it would only work as a lander in that configuration, but that solution was still more lightweight, overall, than bringing an entire lander from Kerbin.

The interplanetary transfer vessel was much larger than strictly necessary; mostly because I came up with the kicker stage idea only very late in the design phase. The first mission plan assumed that I'd go to Jool on the LV-Ns and would carry much more fuel.

Most of the mission went up in one launch, the Laythe Flyer joined it under it's own power. I had to replace the kicker due to technical difficulties; otherwise, nothing remarkable.

Due to the kicker stage, getting to Jool was a short, high-TWR burn; only a very small correction was necessary after the maneuver.

Immediately after entering Jool SOI, the whole assembly was split up: the Laythe Flyer (plus a LVN-equipped tank a.k.a. small tug) went to Laythe, the Labrover (plus a plain tank, not quite full) went to Vall, while the tanker went to Tylo. Each would do its own aerobraking, under the assumption that, given the different target orbits, they'd arrive at intervals of hours or days.

Didn't quite work out that way. I had barely enough time to switch between the two landers, a theme that would repeat itself plenty of times. For some reason or other, there could be several Kerbin days of waiting, and then a lot of maneuvers for different vessels happening all at once.

The Laythe flyer got to its destination easy enough; likewise, getting the tanker to Tylo was no problem. But Vall was elusive: I couldn't set up a nice encounter without brushing up against Laythe or Tylo. IIRC I even spent over a hundred m/s on avoiding the worst encounters that would have tossed me into Jool or out of the system -- I felt like a ball in a pinball machine. Then I just took the next encounter that came up (at a steep angle), and I paid for the capture with tremenduous amounts of delta-V. The mission would have failed there, if it wasn't for the fact that I had arrived at Jool with much more fuel than expected; so much, in fact, that the tanker was 100% full when the mission split up, and both landers were carrying around some fuel they'd never need. Only that in the case of the Vall lander, it turned out to be necessary.

When/if I do that again (Vall turned out to be a nice place, after all), I'll get to Laythe or Tylo first, then transfer to Vall -- that's a lot easier and bound to be cheaper, too.

The landings themselves went off without a hitch; the following transfers to Tylo were surprisingly cheap. The Laythe lander managed to enter an orbit that was very similar to that of the tanker; the rover wasn't quite as lucky. Still, the meet-up at Tylo went over well (though again, I managed to do it such that the maneuvers happened almost at the same time).

Tylo Landing:

-lowered periapsis in several increments

-started burn perhaps five minutes before touchdown

-nukes only at first, pitching so I'd drop no faster than 5-10m/sec. (starting at 10 degrees)

-when 50 degree pitch was no longer enough, I started the Skippers. Was still going about 1700m/s then.

-couldn't land on my own. Eventually I merely slowed down to ~200m/s, then passed control to mechjeb to do the actual landing. Can't say that Mechjeb executed the job gracefully (just look at how the lander legs pierce the ground), but it set me down without damaging the vessel.

Was a horribly close call, I used nearly all my available fuel. There were some reserves stowed away in the lander legs &c., but A) that was meant for the ascent and not readily accessible without pumping around or opening some valves. The amount of accessible fuel I *did* have was supposed to be plenty, but in the end it wasn't enough ( I believe; at any rate I was busy pumping fuel while mechjeb handled the landing).

For the ascent, I had (checking in the VAB): 700m/s @TWR4 from the skippers, 45seconds (~400m/s) @TWR1 from the additional Nervas, then 4400m/s @0.6TWR from the lander itself. That seemed to be too little to get anywhere, but turned out to be wholly sufficient: the Skippers kicked me high enough so that the Nervas had a few minutes' time to turn the parabola into an actual orbit. However, the original plan had called for 1500m/s from the skippers, and sacrificing the small tug was a measure of last resort).

Back at the tanker, I found that I had exactly the minimum fuel to continue the mission: all the extra I had when I entered the system was gone, spent on Vall and Tylo. I had hoped that I could park the Laythe Flyer + Tug as a small fuel depot in the Jool system, but in the event I couldn't even afford to de-orbit them.

The rest of the mission went over without a hitch, and quickly as well.

Bop: getting to Bop, ~700m/s. Landing and getting back to 50km orbit, 1200m/s. 2800m/s left in the tank.

Pol: Taking it's time (two Pol Orbits), the tanker got there with comparatively little delta-v, under 400m/s. Capture at Pol was the most expensive part at ~250m/s. I spent another 20m/s on making a circular 100km orbit. The Rover, coming from Bop, required a little more (mostly for the plane change) and circularised with 2280m/s left -- so I could land right away, no need to meet with the tanker just yet.

Return: Delta-V calculators don't like my ship, but I should have had about 2900m/s. One straightforward 1300m/s burn would take me back to Kerbin; that seemed safe enough, so I didn't even look around for any gravity assists.

Spending about 800m/s shortly before hitting Kerbins atmosphere makes for a much gentler aerobrake (which still had to be rather harsh, as I was coming home at an inopportune moment: the Mun was just in the right place to grab me. I tried to stay clear of it's SOI as I had no patience for dealing with the fall-out of an encounter. Two more rounds of aerobraking after that until I settled in a nice 120x120km orbit.

The kicker stage (yes, it's still around) is docked to the interplanetary transfer vessel. Mostly because in the next step, the tanker comes by to pick up the crew; with the kicker stage present, he can deliver a full load of fuel at the same time (the Jool-5 remnant couldn't hold half of it). Crew boards tanker and rides home.

-----------------------------

Statistics:

- Which game versions did you use?

KSP 2.4, Career mode

- What mods did you use, if any?

Mechjeb *and* Kerbal engineer (both hat trouble giving me correct dV info), kOS computers, Lazor docking cam, select_root, and 1-2 more VAB mods (in stock, it would have been impossible to assemble this as one lauch). A number of part mods on the tanker -- I hope that refueling in LKO isn't considered a key part of the mission.

- How many launches was needed to start your mission from Kerbal?

All told, about six. The bulk of the gear, the Laythe Flyer, the replacement kicker, and three refueling trips to LKO. I think that's all. Oh yes, and the recovery mission. Makes seven.

- How many refueling did you do during the mission, how much and where?

Main mission launched half empty and arrived in LKO nearly dry. Was refueled in LKO thrice. For actual figures, look at the pictures.

- Did you bring a Living Quarter (Hitch-hiker's Storage) for the guys during the long journey?

Yes, if only because I needed it to return all Kerbals. Then again, four bunks for six people -- let's just assume that at least two of them were on watch at any given time, shall we?

- Did you bring additional stuff like satellites, rovers, etc?

Well, there was a rover. Only place I really used it was Vall, though. I'd have loved to bring some Landsat/Scansat appliances, but that won't happen as long as there's a version without modstatistics (wasn't there a key date recently? Have to check that again).

- Share the delta-V informations too, if you tracked it!

None too accurately. General rule of thumb for the Jool system: getting from any moon to it's neighbour can be done at 500m/s or less, except Bop, but even here 600m/s seems plenty.

Landing on Tylo? I had accounted for 3000m/s, a third of which would have come at low TWR from Nervas. In the end, they provided half that until I was pitching up so much that any ISP gains would have been wasted. The additional 500m/s from the Skippers nearly did me in. Advice to future players: on the ascent, 2500m/s will get you into a circular 30-50km orbit. Bring at least 30% extra for the descent.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Laie

Ravenchant · August 27, 2014

Okay, I've been putting this challenge off for too long already. Let's do this! Stock!

*Gets to work*

EDIT: first draft of the mothership. It should be able to carry 150 tons of cargo...and have about the same empty weight. Launching the behemoth will be interesting.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Ravenchant

Laie · August 27, 2014

Oioioi, that looks as if it might wobble badly. If you know what you're doing, please tell me how you keep it stable.

Himynameisjake · August 27, 2014

Okay, I've been putting this challenge off for too long already. Let's do this! Stock!
*Gets to work*
EDIT: first draft of the mothership. It should be able to carry 150 tons of cargo...and have about the same empty weight. Launching the behemoth will be interesting.
http://i.imgur.com/tmqmhT2.png

I can tell you from personal experience that you do not need that much fuel (even if you are doing a grand tour, see mine for reference), and that your ship looks ungainly to launch and control

Himynameisjake · August 27, 2014

I am ashamed of myself.

Your mission was a fun attempt, in the future, take your failures and turn them into a learning experience. Find opportunity in your tribulations and build on them, rather than try to cheapen the achievement by passing anything less than success as success. Apply this lesson to real life, and think, whenever you have to ask "is it good enough?" the answer will invariably be "NO."

Ravenchant · August 27, 2014

I can tell you from personal experience that you do not need that much fuel (even if you are doing a grand tour, see mine for reference), and that your ship looks ungainly to launch and control

It's certainly ungainly to launch, but control isn't so bad- I expected more wobbling to be honest. And I could have done it with less fuel, though it's good to have a safety margin since my landers aren't ready yet...

Himynameisjake · August 27, 2014

It's certainly ungainly to launch, but control isn't so bad- I expected more wobbling to be honest. And I could have done it with less fuel, though it's good to have a safety margin since my landers aren't ready yet...

Build your payload before you build your rocket. Allows you to be much more efficient.

Cmdr. Arn1e · August 27, 2014

Ziv, where do you stand on Spaceplane+ now it's announced to be in the next update?

Been working on a new entry (having learnt so much from my first go!) and am in the end of planning and now onto first stages of build; it would be nice if we could start using the nice cargo bays now :wink:

Edited August 27, 2014 by Cmdr. Arn1e

Ziv · August 28, 2014

Here is my first try for the Jool5 challenge, and first travel to the Joolian system.
We went to the beach on Laythe ! Well Jeb' only, his friends visited less .... places...
One single "kerbal style" launch : If it does not reach orbit => MORE BOOSTERS !
An interplanetary ship in my style : a cage of fuel tanks attached to each other and some nuke on one side.
Result : it takes off, it is laggy. I need to think about keeping things simple...
So the cigar shaped ship from top to bootom consists in : a plane for Laythe, a mother ship with crew cabin and, attached to it, 4 ionic mini landers, then a lander for Vall and another for Tylo.
Once I took off I figured out that the plane cockpit was not empty... One seat will be missing for the travel back.
Well I am supposed to have plenty of Xenon, so the stowaway will have the pleasure to go back home with one of the mini landers, he will have plenty of time, alone, to sew a parachute.
Solar panels deployed, all nuke engines ahead full, to infinity and beyond (With a little stop on Jool plz) !
http://imgur.com/a/sRxzp/embed
All is going well...
The aerobraking around Jool was a little bit to fast in term of warp, so I had to slow down manually.
This sent me to Laythe atmosphere for a new aerobrake.
After kicking Munzer out of the plane cockpit, Jeb' separates it from the main ship. The plane continues its aerobrake spiral while the mother ship parks itself on a safe orbit.
I was a little but scared when it was time to land, I saw no island and the night was beginning to fall... But I finally managed to land before dusk. Jeb' is on the beach !
The mother ship leaves Laythe orbit to park between Tylo and Vall, the tanks are dry, I detach it and separate the landers (Back to real time, lag is over !). And I start placing my landers on their target orbit.
This happenned (almost) without problem. Indeed after the parking around Pol, I could not find my mother ship... Reload last save... Hoho during a warp it encountered Tylo... I fixed that and let the dry tanks crash on the big stone.
http://imgur.com/a/Tsi1k/embed
Now the problem begins...
Pol, no problem, easy landing.
Bop, I even managed to land near the "anomaly".
Tylo was for the stowaway ! Munzer crashed on it... the lander was lacking TWR to be able to brake properly. Jool5 achievement failed
Vall, the lander was not that stable and almost fall from its feet during landing.
So I planted 4 flags and not 5 at almost the same moment, and then everybody took off.
I expected a more difficult goodbye to Laythe, except that the mechjeb module was attached to the scientific pod, and I had to make all the way back to the mother ship manually.
Goodbye Vall, easy.
Goodbye Tylo, well no
Goodbye Bop, easy.
Goodbye Pol, easy.
Count yourself, we go back home !
1, 2, 3, 4... 4 ? We went 6, and we are only 4, we are supposed to be 5, there was only one crash as far as I remember ?
It seems that Pol's lander took but without its passenger. Well we have resources : 2 backup mini-landers.
Ok, now here we go !
As the mother ship had no solar panel on its own, I had to keep the last backup lander in order to be able to keep a stable ship during accelerations.
Aerobreaking in Kerbin sky from more than 4Km/s, and (almost) everybody came back happy on the south pole with 8k science points !
http://imgur.com/a/QyiGh/embed
Now that my science tree is full I am working on a new Jool5 ship, without science. I obviously have to change my strategy for Tylo.
My goal : plant the 5 flags at the same time.
I am currently testing on Kerbin :
- A Tylo lander, able to go to LKO twice, also used to power the mother ship during take off. He should have enough boost to manage to land without breaking.
- A new Laythe plane in 3 stages : Jet / Rocket / Ion. I currently managed to place it in a 30km x 30km Kerbin "orbit" with its jet engine (I did not even know this was possible).
A smaller overall solution but without outside seats.
I will keep you updated !

Pamynx: OMG, that main ship looks HUGE and looks awesome at the beginning, in the space! I'm usually not a fan of the "brute-force" attempts but this picture and this picture looks epic! That's also pretty as you detach the inner parts. And the landers are unique and creative too! I'm sorry that you failed Tylo! Yeah, that's a hard thing to go there and also to come back.

I like your designs so if you want then I can put this mission into the Mixed Solution with the information that you failed Tylo. What do you think?

Ziv · August 28, 2014

I hereby respectfully submit my entry, for whatever category seems to fit. Probably Jebediah's.
Galleries:
Preparations
to Jool
Laythe & Vall
Tylo, Bop, Pol
Return & Recovery
That's possibly not enough pictures, and I've kept it short on the comments, so the galleries should be considered alongside the following
Mission description:
I'm quite fond of that Labrover. It was a given that I'd use it wherever possible. For Laythe, I came up with a simple spaceplane. For Tylo, I tried to somehow attach more thrust to my rover, however, this wouldn't work. Eventually, I put the rover on top of a high-thrust contraption: it would only work as a lander in that configuration, but that solution was still more lightweight, overall, than bringing an entire lander from Kerbin.
The interplanetary transfer vessel was much larger than strictly necessary; mostly because I came up with the kicker stage idea only very late in the design phase. The first mission plan assumed that I'd go to Jool on the LV-Ns and would carry much more fuel.
Most of the mission went up in one launch, the Laythe Flyer joined it under it's own power. I had to replace the kicker due to technical difficulties; otherwise, nothing remarkable.
Due to the kicker stage, getting to Jool was a short, high-TWR burn; only a very small correction was necessary after the maneuver.
Immediately after entering Jool SOI, the whole assembly was split up: the Laythe Flyer (plus a LVN-equipped tank a.k.a. small tug) went to Laythe, the Labrover (plus a plain tank, not quite full) went to Vall, while the tanker went to Tylo. Each would do its own aerobraking, under the assumption that, given the different target orbits, they'd arrive at intervals of hours or days.
Didn't quite work out that way. I had barely enough time to switch between the two landers, a theme that would repeat itself plenty of times. For some reason or other, there could be several Kerbin days of waiting, and then a lot of maneuvers for different vessels happening all at once.
The Laythe flyer got to its destination easy enough; likewise, getting the tanker to Tylo was no problem. But Vall was elusive: I couldn't set up a nice encounter without brushing up against Laythe or Tylo. IIRC I even spent over a hundred m/s on avoiding the worst encounters that would have tossed me into Jool or out of the system -- I felt like a ball in a pinball machine. Then I just took the next encounter that came up (at a steep angle), and I paid for the capture with tremenduous amounts of delta-V. The mission would have failed there, if it wasn't for the fact that I had arrived at Jool with much more fuel than expected; so much, in fact, that the tanker was 100% full when the mission split up, and both landers were carrying around some fuel they'd never need. Only that in the case of the Vall lander, it turned out to be necessary.
When/if I do that again (Vall turned out to be a nice place, after all), I'll get to Laythe or Tylo first, then transfer to Vall -- that's a lot easier and bound to be cheaper, too.
The landings themselves went off without a hitch; the following transfers to Tylo were surprisingly cheap. The Laythe lander managed to enter an orbit that was very similar to that of the tanker; the rover wasn't quite as lucky. Still, the meet-up at Tylo went over well (though again, I managed to do it such that the maneuvers happened almost at the same time).
Tylo Landing:
-lowered periapsis in several increments
-started burn perhaps five minutes before touchdown
-nukes only at first, pitching so I'd drop no faster than 5-10m/sec. (starting at 10 degrees)
-when 50 degree pitch was no longer enough, I started the Skippers. Was still going about 1700m/s then.
-couldn't land on my own. Eventually I merely slowed down to ~200m/s, then passed control to mechjeb to do the actual landing. Can't say that Mechjeb executed the job gracefully (just look at how the lander legs pierce the ground), but it set me down without damaging the vessel.
Was a horribly close call, I used nearly all my available fuel. There were some reserves stowed away in the lander legs &c., but A) that was meant for the ascent and not readily accessible without pumping around or opening some valves. The amount of accessible fuel I *did* have was supposed to be plenty, but in the end it wasn't enough ( I believe; at any rate I was busy pumping fuel while mechjeb handled the landing).
For the ascent, I had (checking in the VAB): 700m/s @TWR4 from the skippers, 45seconds (~400m/s) @TWR1 from the additional Nervas, then 4400m/s @0.6TWR from the lander itself. That seemed to be too little to get anywhere, but turned out to be wholly sufficient: the Skippers kicked me high enough so that the Nervas had a few minutes' time to turn the parabola into an actual orbit. However, the original plan had called for 1500m/s from the skippers, and sacrificing the small tug was a measure of last resort).
Back at the tanker, I found that I had exactly the minimum fuel to continue the mission: all the extra I had when I entered the system was gone, spent on Vall and Tylo. I had hoped that I could park the Laythe Flyer + Tug as a small fuel depot in the Jool system, but in the event I couldn't even afford to de-orbit them.
The rest of the mission went over without a hitch, and quickly as well.
Bop: getting to Bop, ~700m/s. Landing and getting back to 50km orbit, 1200m/s. 2800m/s left in the tank.
Pol: Taking it's time (two Pol Orbits), the tanker got there with comparatively little delta-v, under 400m/s. Capture at Pol was the most expensive part at ~250m/s. I spent another 20m/s on making a circular 100km orbit. The Rover, coming from Bop, required a little more (mostly for the plane change) and circularised with 2280m/s left -- so I could land right away, no need to meet with the tanker just yet.
Return: Delta-V calculators don't like my ship, but I should have had about 2900m/s. One straightforward 1300m/s burn would take me back to Kerbin; that seemed safe enough, so I didn't even look around for any gravity assists.
Spending about 800m/s shortly before hitting Kerbins atmosphere makes for a much gentler aerobrake (which still had to be rather harsh, as I was coming home at an inopportune moment: the Mun was just in the right place to grab me. I tried to stay clear of it's SOI as I had no patience for dealing with the fall-out of an encounter. Two more rounds of aerobraking after that until I settled in a nice 120x120km orbit.
The kicker stage (yes, it's still around) is docked to the interplanetary transfer vessel. Mostly because in the next step, the tanker comes by to pick up the crew; with the kicker stage present, he can deliver a full load of fuel at the same time (the Jool-5 remnant couldn't hold half of it). Crew boards tanker and rides home.
-----------------------------
Statistics:
- Which game versions did you use?
KSP 2.4, Career mode
- What mods did you use, if any?
Mechjeb *and* Kerbal engineer (both hat trouble giving me correct dV info), kOS computers, Lazor docking cam, select_root, and 1-2 more VAB mods (in stock, it would have been impossible to assemble this as one lauch). A number of part mods on the tanker -- I hope that refueling in LKO isn't considered a key part of the mission.
- How many launches was needed to start your mission from Kerbal?
All told, about six. The bulk of the gear, the Laythe Flyer, the replacement kicker, and three refueling trips to LKO. I think that's all. Oh yes, and the recovery mission. Makes seven.
- How many refueling did you do during the mission, how much and where?
Main mission launched half empty and arrived in LKO nearly dry. Was refueled in LKO thrice. For actual figures, look at the pictures.
- Did you bring a Living Quarter (Hitch-hiker's Storage) for the guys during the long journey?
Yes, if only because I needed it to return all Kerbals. Then again, four bunks for six people -- let's just assume that at least two of them were on watch at any given time, shall we?
- Did you bring additional stuff like satellites, rovers, etc?
Well, there was a rover. Only place I really used it was Vall, though. I'd have loved to bring some Landsat/Scansat appliances, but that won't happen as long as there's a version without modstatistics (wasn't there a key date recently? Have to check that again).
- Share the delta-V informations too, if you tracked it!
None too accurately. General rule of thumb for the Jool system: getting from any moon to it's neighbour can be done at 500m/s or less, except Bop, but even here 600m/s seems plenty.
Landing on Tylo? I had accounted for 3000m/s, a third of which would have come at low TWR from Nervas. In the end, they provided half that until I was pitching up so much that any ISP gains would have been wasted. The additional 500m/s from the Skippers nearly did me in. Advice to future players: on the ascent, 2500m/s will get you into a circular 30-50km orbit. Bring at least 30% extra for the descent.

Laie: Congratulations, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on Jebediah's Level!

The universal lander Lab is a very nice idea! What deltaV does it have on it's own?

Hmm, from what mod is that huge wing for the refueler plane? Looks impressive! What are the parameters of it? (Btw generally no part mod is accepted without my initial permission, bet let's say it's okay for these refueling trips). I like that it has a braking parachute during landing.

Also, can you please describe how the tugs worked? I saw on this picture that you had a lot of fuel/tugs so I don't doubt you made it, it's just not clear from the pictures. One for the Laythe plane, one for the Tylo (and other??) landings, and a big main ship which may helped later, and also it was the return vehicle...

Overall, it's a really well-planned mission with that unique solution with the Lab lander. Good job, thank you for participating!

EDIT: it looks like you have set a new science point record for the Jebediah's Level with 23606.2 points collected! Congratulations! :cool:

Edited August 28, 2014 by Ziv

Ziv · August 28, 2014

Ziv, where do you stand on Spaceplane+ now it's announced to be in the next update?
Been working on a new entry (having learnt so much from my first go!) and am in the end of planning and now onto first stages of build; it would be nice if we could start using the nice cargo bays now

Yeah, I see there's a need to make the modding rules clear. So I'm going to list the permitted/prohibited mods on the main page! Yes, SpacePlane Plus will be definitely permitted!

Pamynx · August 28, 2014

Pamynx: OMG, that main ship looks HUGE and looks awesome at the beginning, in the space! I'm usually not a fan of the "brute-force" attempts but this picture and this picture looks epic! That's also pretty as you detach the inner parts. And the landers are unique and creative too! I'm sorry that you failed Tylo! Yeah, that's a hard thing to go there and also to come back.
I like your designs so if you want then I can put this mission into the Mixed Solution with the information that you failed Tylo. What do you think?

Sure, keep track of this mission, even if the Tylo lander failed, I think such a design could work, ie putting the landers in a long nuclear propulsed tube, but it is very laggy

Anyway, you will soon have another entry for me, even if I fail again, I made some achievements with my new design, I have something landed in Tylo, something that can leave its ground (I still have to check it can get to orbit ) ! But the fuel on the mother ship is very low, I am playing with the gravity fields of the system in order to reach Vall at low speed and manage to land there. I hope I will be able to come back with the mother ship and not in 5 separate ion pods unable to land in Kerbin ground.

Himynameisjake · August 28, 2014

Yeah, I see there's a need to make the modding rules clear. So I'm going to list the permitted/prohibited mods on the main page! Yes, SpacePlane Plus will be definitely permitted!

BoatParts should be added to the list of permitted mods, for reasons

Ziv · August 28, 2014

.

I have made some clarification about using mods.

I permitted many part mods and prohibited much more. :cool:

Check the list on the first page!

Ziv · August 28, 2014

BoatParts should be added to the list of permitted mods, for reasons

Link them please and I will consider them! I have no experience with them.

Himynameisjake · August 28, 2014

Link them please and I will consider them! I have no experience with them.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/24845-Boat-Parts-0-24-R4-5

Also, I immediately have a desire to send a sub to Eve.

Laie · August 28, 2014

Laie: Congratulations, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on Jebediah's Level!

Thank you very much *bows nicely*

--

The Lab-Rover-Lander has 5827m/s. It was designed specifically to harvest the Mun's biomes by doing many suborbital hops. That seemed somewhat overkillish for the biome-less joolian moons, but then I realized that it can travel on its own.

That tanker has procedural wings, also modded intakes. More about the rationale here. Their nominal stats are on par with the regular "wing pieces" (that is, much worse than the swept or delta wings) and their weight/lift is accounted by square meters. Wing thickness has no effect but looks. One could argue that these huge wings are overpowered for size alone, especially when considering the load I put on them. I was hoping you'd turn a blind eye, as refueling in LKO isn't exactly the most challenging part of a Jool-5 mission.

Regarding the "tugs", I hoped that this picture would help to explain which is which. As to their use,

The small tug took the flyer to Laythe, then to Tylo, then became part of the Tylo lander.
The Labrover had no tug (having LV-Ns of its own), but merely a tank attached to it. They main purpose of this tank was to hold excessive fuel in orbit while the lander went down to Vall on a minmal budget (and a much smaller tank would have sufficed, but I didn't want to bring an empty tank just for this purpose).
The "big tug", the vessel with the two many-engined outriggers, was the "mothership".

According to the original plan, the mothership was to visit all moons in order and would have detached whatever was called for at the moment -- this would have required much more fuel (and hence the many engines, to give me at least 0.15 TWR). Eventually, it was relegated to a tanker that just had to be in the right place at the right time, for the mostly-independent lander to top off its tanks.

EDIT: it looks like you have set a new science point record for the Jebediah's Level with 23606.2 points collected! Congratulations!

Thank you very much, but... that figure includes 880 science points from "high around the sun". Only 22726 points come from Jool and it's moons. Sorry, I should have pointed that out right away.

But again, thanks. You've been running this challenege and reviewing mission reports since almost two years now -- you're great.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Laie

Cmdr. Arn1e · August 28, 2014

Ah, nicely done sir makes it really simple to see what is allowed and what isn't...

One problem; SP+ includes an outdated version of Firespitter, but I haven't noticed any Firespitter parts since I tested out SP+ on a backup save yesterday... some might be tempted to delete the outdated folder and replace with the newer version! Might need to add a caveat to cover this..

But This makes me happy, as A) we can get used to some of the parts that may or may not be included when .25 comes out, and My Laythe Plane will be looking so much better than the first one!

Ziv · August 28, 2014

Yeah, I know the firespitter directory in SP+ but it doesn't have parts. Yes, I also love how SP+ looks!

Cmdr. Arn1e · August 28, 2014

All cool

Whelp,I gone and made a spaceplane with the SP+ parts, and it's perfect! It will again be the vessel carrying the Science package(s) to orbit, just need to do a few tweaks to make it meet the requirements (Barometer and Atmospheric Nosecone... might have to hide them away in the bay, there's a little bit of room left )

Himynameisjake · August 29, 2014

Did you make a decision on the BoatParts mod? Waiting to submit some stuff until I hear back from ya

Himynameisjake · August 29, 2014

Oh hell, here it is anyways, I've had a bunch of these parked in orbit since .24

Javascript is disabled. View full album

hazard-ish · August 29, 2014

Sorry for asking a potentially stupid question, but do we have to have a crew module in the vessel (I will attempt the first level) or can I use an external command seat right from the launchpad?

(OLD) The Ultimate Jool-5 Challenge:land Kerbals on all moons and return in one big mission

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