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(OLD) The Ultimate Jool-5 Challenge:land Kerbals on all moons and return in one big mission

Ziv

By Ziv
in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas

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Ziv

Ziv

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Mr.Rocket: congratulation for finishing your JOOL-5 mission! I can't watch all the pictures now :( becaue I'm with a USB stick internet right now with only some hundred Mb left until Monday and I have to save, like fuel for the level1 sub-challenge :D (hopefully I will get the broadband on Monday...I just moved home). So I will review your mission in details then, too! :)
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Ziv

Ziv

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Here is my second attempt of lightweight Jool-5 mission:

  • Ship start mass - 50.92 t
  • Ship mass on low Kerbin orbit - 35.98 t
  • Main engine - 1 nuclear engine
  • Reconfigurable lander with one pilot in cabine
  • Lander route: Kerbin -> Laythe -> Vall -> Pol -> Bop -> Tylo -> Kerbin
  • 3 supply subships for Laythe, Vall and Tylo with lander

http://imgur.com/a/gzm0C

WOW, that's very impressive!!! My version is already in the 70-80 tons range but still tweaking the launcher vehicle. But I hated to see you already beaten that! >:(:D

And it's the same for this mission as mentioned before: I can't watch pictures/videos until next week but I will answer and update the stats too, sorry for the delay!!

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Ziv

Ziv

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Currently on a brief break, now that Tylo and Laythe are complete. I have a lander en route to Vall, but I found out during orbital maneuvers that it is a bit off balance. :( (Thanks, Goo Container! :mad:) That makes burns problematic, and I worry that I won't be able to complete the mission after all.

But when I get back to it (probably tomorrow night), I plan to pump a bit of fuel around to try and help alleviate the balance issue.

Yeah, unbalanced ships can cause a lot of trouble (and are very inefficient at deltaV/fuel too). I hope you will be able to manage this! :)

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Ziv

Ziv

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Thanks Ziv ! :D Also, any ideas about the kethane version yet?

Oh yeah, I had no time for that yet but will definitely start the Kethane version of this challenge next week!! I don't have the details yet but I guess it would be good to have an optimization one (like the low-mass one but maybe with more rules/goals), a general point-collecting one and a mostly freestyle one.

Let me know your ideas on this! (I know you already had some, I kept that in mind! :) )

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Alchemist

Alchemist

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OMG maybe that's the most orange fuels I saw for this... expect VERY LONG burning times, and that if you bring one orange tank, it will be 2/3 empty when you arrive at Jool. If you bring 100 of them, 2/3 of them will be empty at arrival, because they need to spend fuel to move their own mass (=fuel). But, of course, more orange tanks mean more 1/3 fuels remaining! :D

For the deltaV between moons, expect something like this: deltaV stats of my first mission (not always accurate! :D )

Actually, after ejection burn the fuel reserve is 67% (I was expecting it will eat half of the fuel). Luckily, I have some things to drop when arriving to Jool (I think I'll throw 2 stacks away before arriving to Jool, and of course, there's the probe to be dropped into Jool.), so it won't be such a lagmonster.

18228cec9c8d.png

9747d62f50ef.png

And yes, I've used the lander's nukes too. Both ships have similar TWR, so it's not a problem even with the standard docking ports.

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Cupcake...

Cupcake...

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Actually, after ejection burn the fuel reserve is 67% (I was expecting it will eat half of the fuel). Luckily, I have some things to drop when arriving to Jool (I think I'll throw 2 stacks away before arriving to Jool, and of course, there's the probe to be dropped into Jool.), so it won't be such a lagmonster.

http://s020.radikal.ru/i715/1402/29/18228cec9c8d.png

http://s43.radikal.ru/i101/1402/ae/9747d62f50ef.png

And yes, I've used the lander's nukes too. Both ships have similar TWR, so it's not a problem even with the standard docking ports.

Man, I should've taken more fuel! :0.0:

Cupcake...

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sdj64

sdj64

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Alright - Finished the minimum mass sub-challenge! With a mass of... 55.95 tons!

Hi again, sure, using Jets and wings is a good idea for the low mass subchallenge (I had this idea too).

For a lander with nuke, did you consider that at Laythe it will be much less effective (deltaV) in the atmosphere?

And I don't really like that you put the Nuke engine INTO the fuel tank. I didn't write any rule that you can't use such a solution and the subchallenge is about crazy daring solutions but this doesn't feel elegant for me. It's similar with the air intakes but I can accept that a little bit better. But please try to make "realistic" and elegant solutions. :)

Your question is good about the order of moons. It depends... check the fuel consumption for both solution and the lowest version wins.

And yes, the command pod is required only for the interplanetary travel, for the landings you don't have to use any.

Edit: I saw you are about to finish the mission. Finish it if you can! Doing a JOOL-5 is a big accomplishment on its own, and being on the low-mass list is like a double fame! :cool:

Fair enough, with the part clipping. I actually really didn't like my lander design. It was near impossible to land upright on the landing gears, the upper stage was missing batteries so I had to keep it pointed towards the sun all the time, the antenna "landing gear" on the upper stage actually doesn't collide with the ground so it didn't work at all, and the seat was a bit off center. Add that to forgetting a probe core on the orbiter and it was a hell of a headache.

I decided to go to Vall first and use the nuke. On Laythe I landed on that more mountainous island at about 5000 meters, so the nuke was still about 500 Isp.

After I finished I made a revised design, it's lighter weight and avoids seats and part clipping on the lander. I will probably never fly it though, I think twice is enough. This challenge is really time consuming.

Pictures!

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immelman

immelman

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Here is my second attempt of lightweight Jool-5 mission:

  • Ship start mass - 50.92 t
  • Ship mass on low Kerbin orbit - 35.98 t
  • Main engine - 1 nuclear engine
  • Reconfigurable lander with one pilot in cabine
  • Lander route: Kerbin -> Laythe -> Vall -> Pol -> Bop -> Tylo -> Kerbin
  • 3 supply subships for Laythe, Vall and Tylo with lander

http://imgur.com/a/gzm0C

That is very very impressive, I liked the parachute tango a lot!

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immelman

immelman

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Alright - Finished the minimum mass sub-challenge! With a mass of... 55.95 tons!

Fair enough, with the part clipping. I actually really didn't like my lander design. It was near impossible to land upright on the landing gears, the upper stage was missing batteries so I had to keep it pointed towards the sun all the time, the antenna "landing gear" on the upper stage actually doesn't collide with the ground so it didn't work at all, and the seat was a bit off center. Add that to forgetting a probe core on the orbiter and it was a hell of a headache.

I decided to go to Vall first and use the nuke. On Laythe I landed on that more mountainous island at about 5000 meters, so the nuke was still about 500 Isp.

After I finished I made a revised design, it's lighter weight and avoids seats and part clipping on the lander. I will probably never fly it though, I think twice is enough. This challenge is really time consuming.

Pictures!

http://imgur.com/a/iyxPt

An SSTO that takes off horizontally and visits all five moons, this is great!

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Cupcake...

Cupcake...

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Another nice video. The lander design, did you clip a fuel tank into another tank?

Kind of, a pair of T400 tanks form they main spar with a couple of T800s laid horizantaly over the top of them. Oh and BTW, my Jool mission has come to an end, is there an after party? What's the dress code? Do I need to bring snacks? :)

You can see catch up with parts 1-4 here:

Enjoy!

Cupcake...

Edited by Cupcake...
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zeppelinmage

zeppelinmage

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Ziv, could you provide a ruling for providing "replacement landers"? I found out, far too late, that my mini lander was very poorly engineered. :( The weight balance issue I can deal with... what I can't, though, is the lack of probe core. Because my Kerbal is in an external command seat, the navball (and all-important blue maneuver node targets) orients to his "forward view"... and the docking port ends up "backwards".

EKCogf4.png

At this point, I am completely SOL, as my Tylo lander is discarded, and my Laythe lander will be useless once I rendezvous.

I could send a "refueling" mission out, without additional Kerbals, that only brings a little gas and a new, better engineered, mini lander. But I'll only do so with your OK. :) (I won't use the new transfer unit to travel between moons, simply to rendezvous with the old lander and replace with a new one. My previous mothership will continue to be the primary vessel, only docking with the "refueler" if needed.)

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sdj64

sdj64

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Zeppelin, you can click on the docking port and click "control from here". That way it will orient the view down, which means you will have to point retrograde when you want to prograde, but it could probably work better than controlling from the seat.

Or you could ask Cupcake. From what I could tell in the videos, he is controlling from the horizontal pod even when he does vertical landings. Don't know how you do it, Cupcake. Great videos by the way.

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zeppelinmage

zeppelinmage

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Zeppelin, you can click on the docking port and click "control from here". That way it will orient the view down, which means you will have to point retrograde when you want to prograde, but it could probably work better than controlling from the seat.

Or you could ask Cupcake. From what I could tell in the videos, he is controlling from the horizontal pod even when he does vertical landings. Don't know how you do it, Cupcake. Great videos by the way.

Doesn't help with maneuver nodes, though. No retrograde marker for those.

I'm not nearly skilled enough to "fly by eye". I need my maneuver nodes. :(

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Ziv

Ziv

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Here is my second attempt of lightweight Jool-5 mission:

  • Ship start mass - 50.92 t
  • Ship mass on low Kerbin orbit - 35.98 t
  • Main engine - 1 nuclear engine
  • Reconfigurable lander with one pilot in cabine
  • Lander route: Kerbin -> Laythe -> Vall -> Pol -> Bop -> Tylo -> Kerbin
  • 3 supply subships for Laythe, Vall and Tylo with lander

http://imgur.com/a/gzm0C

Mesklin: Congratulation, you lead the leaderboard for the Level3 sub-challenge for now with 51t! Really impressive! Yeah, a small lander and a lot of little refueling modules is a must in this kind of a mission. Good job!

BTW I almost finished my mission and if the fuel will be enough to return then I'm going to beat your 51t! :cool:

Edited by Ziv
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Ziv

Ziv

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sdj64: Nice job with the 56 tons plane version for the low-mass challenge!

the part clipping was discussed... and yeah, I guess you had a lot of trouble with the lander that way. But otherwise nice try with the limits of the game. :)

I liked your radio antenna landing gear! :D And good idea to land high at Laythe with the nuke.

And most importantly: great one with the wings!! What was your weight in orbit?

Nice job, you are in the Hall of Fame for the low-mass challenge too with impressive 56 tons!

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