(OLD) The Ultimate Jool-5 Challenge:land Kerbals on all moons and return in one big mission

Kasuha · February 8, 2014

Use "horizontal" landing. Of course it can't be perfectly horizontal but the idea is, get your periapsis just above terrain (~7000 m on Tylo) and land from there. It costs less dv than when you're landing from high up, you just need to burn slightly above prograde to prevent falling before you clear your horizontal velocity.

Alchemist · February 8, 2014

I totally overengineered it (on the other hand, I have no idea how much navigation between Jools moons will actually take... and some of them require quite a bunch of fuel for the landing).

Antares interplanetary tug/supertanker. Can be used as reusable superheavy tug or tanker. Or you can drop spent parts to squeeze even more delta-v (which is planned for this mission).

Never thought it has so much dry mass - what are these tanks made of? It weights as 4 full tanks. Also took a probe for Jool.

Just have to get last 2 crew members from the station (station? if that is station what is this then?), refuel the red giant and finally dock the lander...

Approved mission commander roster for landings:

Laythe - Matt Kerman - with this name he should like planets with atmosphere.

Tylo - Jebediah Kerman - who else is crazy enough?

Vall - Landin Kerman - he is my Munar research hero and best lander pilot (with such name...)

Pol - Bill Kerman

Bop - Bob Kerman

Edited February 8, 2014 by Alchemist

zeppelinmage · February 8, 2014

My Pe is just clipping the edge of a crater.

My problem is I have absolutely horrible timing. I either bleed all horizontal speed at like 2k above the surface, or I lithobrake at 200 m/s. :huh: It also doesn't help that I put my KER module on my first droptank, so I lose all those handy numbers. I think I need at least two more attempts... one to find out exactly how long it really takes to bleed off my horizontal speed, and another to "suicide burn" it to landing.

Mr.Rocket · February 8, 2014

I was able to finish the Jool-5 challenge, doing both Pol and Laythe Today. This is a level-3 i believe entry. I'm posting the images in multiple albums for the sake of sanity.

To answer your questions:

Game Version Used: .23 (the latest and greatest)

Mods Used: AIES Aerospace, RLA Stockalike (both for only the launchers), Kerbal Engineer Redux, Kerbal Alarm Clock, VOID, Kerbal Crew Manifest, KAS (for the struts only), EVA light globes (didn't really do much ), KerbPaint, And i think that's it (no mechjeb, those window that look like mechjeb are actually VOID )

Launches: 5 launches for the ship, 8 refuelers

Refueling: I did two refueling mission, although the first was a fail ( more info in pictures)

Living Quarters: Sadly, no They sat in a mk3 pod and a two man lander can)

Additional Stuff: Also no, maybe another time

Delta-v Tracking: Well i didn't really track it, but alot of the delta-v info is in the pictures

And now for the presentation:

Launch and Assembly:

Arrival at Jool

Tylo with Jeb of course/ first refueling

Vall landing With Bob

Second refueling mission I tried to reduce the amount of pictures in this one

Bop Landing with Hans

Pol Landing with Tom (sorry, but for some reason the portrait in the bottom left didn't show up for this mission, a possible bug?)

Laythe with everyone,but especially Bill

WE DID IT!

Going Home

And a collection of beauty pictures serving no real purpose

Ziv, please tell me if any more pictures are required, i think i got everything, but i have a lot more pictures! I took pictures like the tourist i was (refuler G had extremely bad luck, and i took alot of pictures because i thought it was funny )

Edited February 9, 2014 by Mr.Rocket

zeppelinmage · February 9, 2014

Well, that's extremely frustrating... :huh:

Finally had a decent landing; more than half of my tall tanks full of fuel; should have been enough to lift off again. But for some reason, as soon as I turn to 45 degrees, the thing begins to tumble end-over-end uncontrollably. :huh: I think it might have to do with the bugged landing... though every time I've been able to safely touch down, the lander legs penetrate the surface, causing wobble:

Anyone know what, if anything, I can do to alleviate that problem?

(btw, those drop tanks are jettisoned before takeoff to save weight.)

SSSPutnik · February 9, 2014

I assume SAS is on? Do you have RCS to assist? Try distributing fuel around, you could be too top heavy?

Try turning off suspension on the legs? You don't have an engine running out of fuel?

Good luck,

Edited February 9, 2014 by SSSPutnik

zeppelinmage · February 9, 2014

SAS is on; RCS is empty; fuel is balanced; all sixteen engines are still running. Top-heavy is probably the problem... I'll also try turning off suspension.

SSSPutnik · February 9, 2014

Can you get back up with the side tanks still attached? Maybe use them for liftoff and ditch after turn?

zeppelinmage · February 9, 2014

I haven't tried yet; I'll give it a shot.

zeppelinmage · February 9, 2014

I got off the ground; left both drop tanks on and lifted off just above TWR 1. Once I was at 45 degrees, dropped both drop tanks and accelerated. Worked fine, just didn't have enough DV to orbit.

SSSPutnik · February 9, 2014

You can try turning more, drop tanks earlier? What's remaining dv with and without tanks?

zeppelinmage · February 9, 2014

My last attempt was at ~10k orbit. I turn just after liftoff. My DV with tanks is 2270, without I have no idea, because my KER module is attached to them. *facepalm*

Before landing I have 5775, which should be just enough to land and take off again. As long as I can get to orbit, I can use my mothership (which has like 8k) to rendesvous.

Mr.Rocket · February 9, 2014

Kerbals have a jetpack with about 400m/s i think. If you are that close just jump out, grab any expiraments you need, and get into orbit by EVA, and have the mothership redezvous there. Remember to quicksave first though

SSSPutnik · February 9, 2014

2270 won't cut it... It may get you some kind of orbit after dropping tanks quicker?

Did you try pumping fuel around? Use the drop tank engines. Mr Rocket may be your only hope. 5775 total is VERY tight man...

zeppelinmage · February 9, 2014

Yeah, the drop tanks are engineless. A weight-saving measure. Shifting fuel won't help as they're symmertically 4x; it would make it completely uncontrollable, at least for me.

Which is what I ended up doing. Got most of the way there, then EVA'd to orbit. Now in the process of rendezvousing.

SSSPutnik · February 9, 2014

Well done! Awesome.

Mesklin · February 11, 2014

Here is my second attempt of lightweight Jool-5 mission:

Ship start mass - 50.92 t
Ship mass on low Kerbin orbit - 35.98 t
Main engine - 1 nuclear engine
Reconfigurable lander with one pilot in cabine
Lander route: Kerbin -> Laythe -> Vall -> Pol -> Bop -> Tylo -> Kerbin
3 supply subships for Laythe, Vall and Tylo with lander

Mr.Rocket · February 11, 2014

Whoa, my Tylo lander alone was about 55 tons. That is impressive :confused:

Cupcake... · February 11, 2014

...and my Jool mission stumbles on. Next stop Bop.

Cupcake...

SSSPutnik · February 11, 2014

Nice one cupcake. Question, how do you keep the screen clear of popups like deploying the flag etc?

Are you using a plugin for the camera angles?

@Mesklin. I am feeling more and more crushed under the weight (or lack thereof) of these low mass launches.

Amazing work!

Cupcake... · February 11, 2014

I usually just cut before the flag dialogue pops ups. I sometimes use Kerbcam for getting shots but most of the footage is shot without it.

Cupcake...

sdj64 · February 12, 2014

Wow Mesklin, you beat my (in progress) J5 spaceplane by under 5 tons! And I only have Bop to go... Very very low on fuel now, not sure if I will be able to get home after I finish! Alas I will not have any time at the top of the leaderboards and may not have a completed challenge at all, but I will post it anyway for all to see and learn from.

zeppelinmage · February 12, 2014

Currently on a brief break, now that Tylo and Laythe are complete. I have a lander en route to Vall, but I found out during orbital maneuvers that it is a bit off balance. (Thanks, Goo Container! :mad: ) That makes burns problematic, and I worry that I won't be able to complete the mission after all.

But when I get back to it (probably tomorrow night), I plan to pump a bit of fuel around to try and help alleviate the balance issue.

Ziv · February 12, 2014

Hi again, sure, using Jets and wings is a good idea for the low mass subchallenge (I had this idea too).

For a lander with nuke, did you consider that at Laythe it will be much less effective (deltaV) in the atmosphere?

And I don't really like that you put the Nuke engine INTO the fuel tank. I didn't write any rule that you can't use such a solution and the subchallenge is about crazy daring solutions but this doesn't feel elegant for me. It's similar with the air intakes but I can accept that a little bit better. But please try to make "realistic" and elegant solutions.

Your question is good about the order of moons. It depends... check the fuel consumption for both solution and the lowest version wins.

And yes, the command pod is required only for the interplanetary travel, for the landings you don't have to use any.

Edit: I saw you are about to finish the mission. Finish it if you can! Doing a JOOL-5 is a big accomplishment on its own, and being on the low-mass list is like a double fame! :cool:

Edited February 12, 2014 by Ziv

Ziv · February 12, 2014

OMG maybe that's the most orange fuels I saw for this... expect VERY LONG burning times, and that if you bring one orange tank, it will be 2/3 empty when you arrive at Jool. If you bring 100 of them, 2/3 of them will be empty at arrival, because they need to spend fuel to move their own mass (=fuel). But, of course, more orange tanks mean more 1/3 fuels remaining!

For the deltaV between moons, expect something like this: deltaV stats of my first mission (not always accurate! )

(OLD) The Ultimate Jool-5 Challenge:land Kerbals on all moons and return in one big mission

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