India sends probe to Mars

[running]

Ok here is the thing... you give aid to a country... that is being spend on whatever in that country.

Doesn't matter much on what you spend it, it will create jobs which means income to people.

Those people will spend that money on stuff. Which also creates more jobs, income etc. etc.

I might start off with money for the people high up in the piramid, but it will trickle down to all levels.

Wether the money is initially used to launch a probe to mars, build a palace or a new highway.

However the smart investments are those that have the promise of being able to sustain themselves. So building a factory is better because if there is a market you can continue to produce goods than building a palace which after it's ready is just sitting there only costing money in maintenance. (Unless it becomes a tourist attraction.) There are plenty of possible money generating spins that a Mars mission. Its a promo for what companies in India can do, you are overcomming technical challanges which could lead to all kinds of products (just hard to predict when you start what you will get) and learning more about a another planet might teach you more about your own, possibly boosting your own aggriculture for example.

[Scotius]

I have to agree with this guys question, I don't understand how a Mars mission can help a poverty stricken nation, in any way. How does studying Martian rocks and puttering around an alien red globe help anyone here on the ground other than furthering our knowledge of the universe. I'm not an economist and I still have no idea how a countries economy works but this sounds silly to me. If it works for India and somehow helps brings them out of poverty then that’s awesome, good for you India, but I can't see how.

I don't understand the people saying 75mil is chump change so there would be no point in spending it to help the country out of poverty. Yeah its not a lot on a country wide scale but it seems counterproductive to spend it on something that has no monetary gain. That’s kinda like saying I have twenty dollars so im gonna use that to go get some college classes instead of eating for a week. And it should be that simple, us Humans we complicate stuff way too much, me included.

Im not trying to insult India, I think its cool that at least someone is still taking an interest in our solar system despite any issues they are having, I just hope it isn't at the expense of their populace. And BTW the American space program did not start while the country was in a state of poverty so its probably not the best comparison. I don't know the whole story on India's situation so please consider that when reading my comments.

"Giva a man fish, and he will have food for a day. Give him a fishing rod and teach him how to use it, and he will be able to feed his family every day." Investment in advanced technologies is always beneficial.

[Tech Support]

I have to agree with this guys question, I don't understand how a Mars mission can help a poverty stricken nation, in any way. How does studying Martian rocks and puttering around an alien red globe help anyone here on the ground other than furthering our knowledge of the universe. I'm not an economist and I still have no idea how a countries economy works but this sounds silly to me. If it works for India and somehow helps brings them out of poverty then that’s awesome, good for you India, but I can't see how.

I don't understand the people saying 75mil is chump change so there would be no point in spending it to help the country out of poverty. Yeah its not a lot on a country wide scale but it seems counterproductive to spend it on something that has no monetary gain. That’s kinda like saying I have twenty dollars so im gonna use that to go get some college classes instead of eating for a week. And it should be that simple, us Humans we complicate stuff way too much, me included.

Im not trying to insult India, I think its cool that at least someone is still taking an interest in our solar system despite any issues they are having, I just hope it isn't at the expense of their populace. And BTW the American space program did not start while the country was in a state of poverty so its probably not the best comparison. I don't know the whole story on India's situation so please consider that when reading my comments.

I understand your confusion, but look at it this way, Indians want a space program; the majority of the Indian populace supports it; there is a huge amount of national pride. there are some who question it, but they are a minority. so if the nation itself is in favor of spending money on a space probe, who are we to question them ?

my signature is quote by Dr.Kalam who was a part of the early Indian space program, I think it pretty much sums it up.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Tech Support

[Surefoot]

Go India. It's by aiming high that you can raise the bar.

[Savage117]

Do you support shutting down NASA? America has got around half a million homeless people; surely having a space program with that level of extreme poverty isn't at all helpful?

What do you think brings people out of poverty? Jobs and education, not handouts. How many reasonable-paying jobs is a country going to have if the entire government agenda is growing and distributing subsidised food?

That’s exactly what I meant, my post was not about using the money for food, it was about using the money to reduce poverty, starvation is not poverty it is a symptom of poverty. And honestly America is pretty screwed up, our government, or some of the people in it at least, do some stupid things with money, for instance for years we have been stagnating education by reducing its budget over and over again. Then they wonder why we have more uneducated and homeless people, and why its hard for people to get jobs, because we aren’t getting the proper education duh.

Ok here is the thing... you give aid to a country... that is being spend on whatever in that country.

Doesn't matter much on what you spend it, it will create jobs which means income to people.

Those people will spend that money on stuff. Which also creates more jobs, income etc. etc.

I might start off with money for the people high up in the piramid, but it will trickle down to all levels.

Wether the money is initially used to launch a probe to mars, build a palace or a new highway.

However the smart investments are those that have the promise of being able to sustain themselves. So building a factory is better because if there is a market you can continue to produce goods than building a palace which after it's ready is just sitting there only costing money in maintenance. (Unless it becomes a tourist attraction.) There are plenty of possible money generating spins that a Mars mission. Its a promo for what companies in India can do, you are overcomming technical challanges which could lead to all kinds of products (just hard to predict when you start what you will get) and learning more about a another planet might teach you more about your own, possibly boosting your own aggriculture for example.

Thank you for clarifying that for me, that actually kinda makes sense.

"Giva a man fish, and he will have food for a day. Give him a fishing rod and teach him how to use it, and he will be able to feed his family every day." Investment in advanced technologies is always beneficial.

I was actually thinking of putting this quote in my post, I try to live by it, I hate when people just do something for me with no explanation then they wonder why i can't do it for myself at a later time. But its not really appropriate because if this mans family is on the brink of death due to starvation and he has a chance to give them one more week of life by taking the fish, or one of them dieing while he learned how to fish. He will probably take the fish, I know I would. It is better to postpone death and learn how to defeat it next time you meet, than to give in to death and learn from it afterwords.

I understand your confusion, but look at it this way, Indians want a space program; the majority of the Indian populace supports it; there is a huge amount of national pride. there are some who question it, but they are a minority. so if the nation itself is in favor of spending money on a space probe, who are we to question them ?

my signature is quote by Dr.Kalam who was a part of the early Indian space program, I think it pretty much sums it up.

Well then im happy for them, im glad they are doing something they feel is important and doing it well. Mostly I was just upset by the people who thought 75mil is such a small amount that it shouldn't be used for something else because it wouldn't make a dent anyway. Its that kind of thinking that gets our governments in trouble in the first place.

Government man A: We have a poverty problem.

Government man B: How much money do we have in the budget?

Government man A: About 2 billion.

Government man B: Oh well that wouldn't put a dent in the problem, lets buy a crap load of Jets instead.

Government man A: Ok.

Not saying the Indians are doing that but its what some people were making it sound like. Also I don't have much faith in my own government right now and it sounds like something they might do.

[rasheed]

hm. Atleast India has its own space program with a probe going to Mars.

[vencaslac]

Even if it wasn't a poverty hotspot india should still receive some kind of reparation from the UK after the centuries of plunder (yes yes i know they did good things too, great things even)... Whether they call it aid or reparation is strictly political and IMO that's the reason cash is changing hands between those governments... Of course it wouldn't look good if they called it a reparation because it would make the UK have to admit more than its' willing to... diplomacy works like that. So the whole argument of India should spend that aid on x or y is invalidated by the fact that x, y are likely issues that may not have arisen should the country that is footing the bills have not done some of the things its' done...

[EndlessWaves]

But its not really appropriate because if this mans family is on the brink of death due to starvation and he has a chance to give them one more week of life by taking the fish, or one of them dieing while he learned how to fish. He will probably take the fish, I know I would. It is better to postpone death and learn how to defeat it next time you meet, than to give in to death and learn from it afterwords.

India isn't Somalia or Syria. This is a developing country that's got a stable government and is building itself infrastructure and sorting it's out it's problems. It's just as important for them to plan for the future by working out how they can contribute to cutting edge technology as it is to solve the problems of the present - there's not much point raising people out of poverty if all the opportunities they have are to work in call centres.

[lajoswinkler]

Did you ever consider the effect of space flight on people nation wide? How many Americans do you think aspired to become an engineer, pilot or something similar because they saw the Saturn V fly to the moon, or the space shuttle take to the skies? Lots, I can garantee you. The country is not the same anymore, and never will be.

A country needs a vision, something to be proud of and it needs to aim high. Space flight provides exactly that. Just solving immediate problems is not going to do a lot. Just look at Japan, that developed itself from the ruins of the second world war into a highly technological power. That is not because they just solved their current problems, that is because they aspired to be great.

USA in 1950's and 1960's and India during the last decades are a totally different thing.

Yes, you can boost a country, but not every country. You can boost a stalled developed country. You can not boost a country where a crapload of people have nothing to eat and simple infectious diseases are taking a large toll each year. You'll manage to inspire few individuals who will have luck to rise from the gutters, but that's it.

When lots of your citizens are hungry and sick, they don't give a rat's ass about space, art and such things, and they will not see profit directly or indirectly.

Here's a useful quote by John Adams, second president of USA:

The science of government it is my duty to study, more than all other sciences; the arts of legislation and administration and negotiation ought to take the place of, indeed exclude, in a manner, all other arts. I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain.

Letter to Abigail Adams (12 May 1780)

If a country spends money to launch satellites, and ignores the cries of hungry and dirty children, something is really wrong.

I live in India, and personally, I feel sad that no matter what we do, the world can only look at our poor and not our progress, levels of education and healthcare are increasing every year but in the eyes of many all they see is " a nation in gutters" as you called us. and in reference to the aid the UK gives us ? last year The Indian airforce decided to buy 126 Dassault Rafale fighter aircraft over the Eurofighter Typhoon; the UK soon released a statement stating that aid to India will be reduced. now pray tell me, is this not Hippocratic ? the Indian Space Program runs on a shoestring budget and yet has done amazing things for the economy ( the commercial wing of ISRO launches satellites at a profit ) the program has profited the nation is numerous ways. India is not perfect, we have corruption and poverty but we are trying to remove that every day.

I'm not seeing a lot of progress. Maybe I'm biased, I don't know. Nobody talks about being perfect. There is no perfect country on Earth, but India is way off acceptable Western standards.

Where does the money go? I sincerely doubt the poor benefit from it in the form of more available healthcare.

You can't measure nation's success by looking at one thing, such as space program or GDP. As long as the gap between the rich and extremely poor is so huge, India will not be a developed country.

Huge slums in metropolitan areas show that things are way wrong there. Skyscrapers for the few rich people, tin roofs for crowds of poor folks. That's a common sight in South American countries, too.

I'd rather live in a country where things are more leveled, even if the average standard is not great.

To conclude, I'd be totally against shutting down all advanced programs in India "just to focus on the basics". That would be stupid. But sending a probe to Mars? That's aiming too high.

There are vastly more beneficial areas of science this country could exploit and gain huge material and nonmaterial benefits.

[PakledHostage]

---

Something about your entire post rubs me the wrong way... I discussed this thread with my wife last night. I wanted her opinion on it because she lived in rural India for several years. It is because of that conversation that I previously said that I don't want to argue the point either way. I do feel the need to point out, however, that your post and many others in this thread are full of cultural biases.

India is a complex society of over a billion people. It has often been said that it is really two countries within a country. People in rural parts of the country may be "poor" by western standards, but that doesn't mean they are universally unhappy or don't have any opportunities to better themselves. You can't stereotype the entire country based solely on media images of the urban poor, or legacy colonial prejudice. After all, even a country as rich as the United States has its own share of desperately poor people in its urban centres. Urban poverty is a separate problem that needs its own attention, independent of the pursuit of science and technology.

Edited November 8, 2013 by PakledHostage

[Moar Boosters]

USA in 1950's and 1960's and India during the last decades are a totally different thing.

Yes, you can boost a country, but not every country. You can boost a stalled developed country. You can not boost a country where a crapload of people have nothing to eat and simple infectious diseases are taking a large toll each year. You'll manage to inspire few individuals who will have luck to rise from the gutters, but that's it.

When lots of your citizens are hungry and sick, they don't give a rat's ass about space, art and such things, and they will not see profit directly or indirectly.

Here's a useful quote by John Adams, second president of USA:

The science of government it is my duty to study, more than all other sciences; the arts of legislation and administration and negotiation ought to take the place of, indeed exclude, in a manner, all other arts. I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain.

Letter to Abigail Adams (12 May 1780)

If a country spends money to launch satellites, and ignores the cries of hungry and dirty children, something is really wrong.

I'm not seeing a lot of progress. Maybe I'm biased, I don't know. Nobody talks about being perfect. There is no perfect country on Earth, but India is way off acceptable Western standards.

Where does the money go? I sincerely doubt the poor benefit from it in the form of more available healthcare.

You can't measure nation's success by looking at one thing, such as space program or GDP. As long as the gap between the rich and extremely poor is so huge, India will not be a developed country.

Huge slums in metropolitan areas show that things are way wrong there. Skyscrapers for the few rich people, tin roofs for crowds of poor folks. That's a common sight in South American countries, too.

I'd rather live in a country where things are more leveled, even if the average standard is not great.

To conclude, I'd be totally against shutting down all advanced programs in India "just to focus on the basics". That would be stupid. But sending a probe to Mars? That's aiming too high.

There are vastly more beneficial areas of science this country could exploit and gain huge material and nonmaterial benefits.

Well several countries including india have tried demolishing slums. They learnt it's not that simple. When slums are torn down and replaced with tenement blocks, they destroy the communities and many people's livelyhood. The solutions are much more complicated. The people want to retain their communities, but have proper safe infrastructure installed into their areas, so they can continue their way of life, but in a safer more hygienic manner. A slum is still going to look awful from aerial photographs, but there's a MASSIVE difference between a slum with a sewer underneath, and one where everyones mess ends up flowing down the middle of the street.

The main benefit of this mission isn't going to be the actual science they gain from the experiments (unless perhaps they find something amazing). It's going to inspire 1.2 billion people to believe in the technological capabilities of their country. Children are the future, and as long as this mission is taught about correctly in their schools, it's going to inspire a whole new generation to stay in education, and progress the future of India's technology. It'll take time to reap the rewards, and they'll be very hard to measure..... but I think the benefits will be huge.

People just assume space is incredibly expensive, but in reality it's much cheaper than other big national projects. Brazil is hosting the olympics in 2016, and that's going cost 100's of times as much as this mission. Billions, instead of millions. This would only be enough money to feed the poor people in India for a few day. I think investing money in pushing forward their technological sector is very well spent.

[czokletmuss]

India is a complex society of over a billion people. (...) You can't stereotype the entire country based solely on media images of the urban poor, or legacy colonial prejudice. After all, even a country as rich as the United States has its own share of desperately poor people in its urban centres.

Exactly. It's like showing some really really poor region of EU or Detroit in USA and saying "you see, the whole continent is poor". You're talking about more than 1000 million people, lajoswinker. You should avoid generalization or you'll be slipping into silly stereotypes (and for this we have polandball).

[Tech Support]

I feel that this thread has bought the worst in all of us, perhaps its time to close this chapter, there is an another thread on the mission that only covers the news and discusses science. I am going to stick to that.

[Mr Shifty]

Something about your entire post rubs me the wrong way... I discussed this thread with my wife last night. I wanted her opinion on it because she lived in rural India for several years. It is because of that conversation that I previously said that I don't want to argue the point either way. I do feel the need to point out, however, that your post and many others in this thread are full of cultural biases.

India is a complex society of over a billion people. It has often been said that it is really two countries within a country. People in rural parts of the country may be "poor" by western standards, but that doesn't mean they are universally unhappy or don't have any opportunities to better themselves. You can't stereotype the entire country based solely on media images of the urban poor, or legacy colonial prejudice. After all, even a country as rich as the United States has its own share of desperately poor people in its urban centres. Urban poverty is a separate problem that needs its own attention, independent of the pursuit of science and technology.

Plus this 1000 times. It is simply a continuation of imperialism to dictate to another country what is and isn't appropriate technological policy. Achievements of this sort can and should be a source of pride and inspiration.

[AmpsterMan]

I think the central issue at heart is where is India economically at this point. Is it in need of immediate stimulus? Is it in need of long term goals? While not always the case, the best answer usually lies between two extremes.

I think the launch of the Mars probe will prove to motivate a large portion of India's population whilst raising its international prestige. It will encourage entrepreneurs from the Aerospace industry to set up shop. This will lead to a higher demand for Middle and High wage workers.

What about the lower wage individuals? The increase in demand for middle income workers will allow more lower end workers to move into the middle income brackets. Furthermore, at $72million, the opportunity cost of the mission is quite cheap comparitively speaking.

To use the fisherman analogy, the diiference lies on whether you see India as a starving man on the brink of death, or a man that is recovering but still needs help. I take the latter poiny of view. I think India is at a point where they not only need to learn to fish but is eager to be one of the best fishermen in the world.

[lajoswinkler]

I'm not stereotyping. Stereotyping would be "all of them are", "they are that and that". I've been careful when picking words.

I do think that some of you here have no idea about the state of lives lots of people have in India. You're fixating on metro areas and ignoring the facts about slums, together with the fact that there's more than one billion of people in India, with majority of them living outside large cities, where conditions are even worse.

People in Indian metropolitan slums can call themselves happy when comparing their lives with the lives of people in rural areas.

You're taking some stuff for granted and you don't have a great sense of reality. Modern sewers (I've yet got to hear about a slum having it), clean water, electricity, it looks quite simple. I've experienced electricity and water shortage in the past. It lasted for days. Trust me, it's not fun. Your whole daily routine crumbles to dust. Not many people will think about space stuff if they have to think how to survive without getting a cholera.

What about healthcare? Vaccinations, free ER, sexual education + contraceptives + free abortion clinics, if you have all that, you halt the expansion of the lowest bars on this population pyramid graph

and that's how you start pulling your country out of the mud. Not by launching space probes to Mars.

Ensure that people have their basic needs covered and you'll make orders of magnitude more progress than talking about space to poor little kids in schools. Instead of creating few successful "slumdog millionaires" per decade, you'll lift whole generations on a new level.

Someone said people in slums are happy and that I lack understanding of a different culture. Yeah, right.

Well ok, if they're so happy, it's because they have no dreams. If you tease them with dreams, and give them no realistic opportunity, you're making things worse.

Edited November 8, 2013 by lajoswinkler

[metaphor]

Why are people saying that the space program and social development are at odds with each other, as if you can only choose one of the two?

From a post on Reddit:

Before whining starts about the wisdom of spending money on space research/exploration while there are other issues facing India:

1) ISRO's(Indian Space Research Organization) budget is only 0.34 per cent of Central Government expenditure currently and 0.08 per cent of the GDP(~USD 800 Million). Compare that to billions spent on "Fix Poverty" programs such as Employment Guarantee Programs(NREGA, USD 7.24+ Billion spent each year) and Subsidized/Free Food Program(FSB,USD 20+ Billion to be spent each year) etc.

2) And Mars Orbiter Mission/Mangalyaan would cost USD ~72 Million only.

3) ISRO is actually funding itself thanks to annual revenue from foreign satellite launches and sale of satellite data/imagery(that is useful for things like Google Maps for example) through its Antrix Subsidiary. Last time I checked it was INR 9 BILLION. source.

4) Data generated by ISRO and related organizations is helping the poorest of poor in India:

Voluminous data from the Indian remote sensing satellites has benefited millions of farmers and fishermen in achieving higher productivity and making optimal utilisation of resources, a senior space scientist said Saturday.

"Studies by the premier economic research institute NCAER have shown that remote sensing data has accrued multiple benefits to farmers across the country with seven percent increase in productivity and helping the farm sector to contribute about Rs.50,000 crore to the national gross domestic product (GDP) over the years," Indian Society of Remote Sensing president V.K. Dadhwal told reporters here.

Similarly, application of remote sensing data by the fishing community contributed about Rs.24,000 crore to the GDP and saved fuel consumption by 30 percent with timely advisories on weather, sea conditions and identification of potential fishing zones for maximizing the catch. source

5) And it is saving lot of lives:

India was hit hard by Cyclone Phailin, with 12 million people impacted, including millions evacuated from the Odisha coast to safety earlier this week. This was the strongest storm to hit the state in 14 years, and it devastated homes and villages in both Orissa and Andhra Pradesh states, with flooding that has closed roads and left some 100,000 people stranded.[..]

The country's satellite imagery satellites are being credited with saving lives thanks to better forecasting, and the ability to share intensity with citizens and policymakers to urge evacuation. [..]

There are 11 Indian remote sensing satellites in service, allowing the National Remote Sensing Centre in Hyderabad to help agencies forecast cyclones more than 72 hours in advance. [..]

The synthetic aperture radar satellites, Risat-1 launched in April last year and Risat-2 which has been in orbit since April 2009 have the ability to look for impending cyclones even at night and through clouds. The synthetic aperture radar in the satellites enables applications in agriculture too, especially for paddy monitoring during kharif season. Saral, an Indio-French satellite launched on February 25, 2013, can study ocean circulation and sea surface elevation.

"Those who criticise the expenditure on space science don't realise its contribution to not just saving lives but alleviating poverty," says Bhargava, who founded the Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology, Hyderabad. "You can argue that the space department gets higher allocation, but it is well justified. After all, Indian space scientist makes satellites and rockets at a fraction of the cost of similar US projects." source1 source2

TL;DR: Investment in Science and Technology == Good.

At the press conference after the launch, ISRO's chairman (or some other important person there, I don't remember) said something like "Indians have no problem spending 5000 crores on Diwali crackers that don't go up 10 feet, but they're shouting about 450 crores to the Mars mission!"

So in fact, India literally spent 10 times as much money on fireworks the day before the launch than they spent on the Mars mission.

This argument over the space program is like going to a dealership to buy a car, and buying a loaf of bread to eat on the way. And then someone says, "why are you spending money on that loaf of bread when you could use that money to get a better car?"

Edited November 8, 2013 by metaphor

[Wallace]

I wish I'd typed a bit more on that first comment now, seems a lot of people are taking it the wrong way.

I was looking at this launch in a bigger context, that it is the latest in a long string of stunts to try and outdo China. Spokespeople at the Indian space agency have stated that their intention was to beat the Chinese to Mars because so far China had beaten them to other space goals. The indian space agency may have made profits from commercial launches, and may have put a load of weather and environmental satellites into orbit that benefit their country, however, this mission won't do any of that. It may bring back some good scientific data, but it's real purpose is to be a big 75 million dollar middle finger to China.

The idea that India is being stereotyped as all poor, I think is totally false, in fact the point is that it is the exact opposite, some of the wealthiest people on the planet are Indian, and so are some of the poorest. Now maybe this mission to Mars is actually one of the less frivolous ways they are spending that money, but it is still part of the same problem. The Indian elite are more concerned with building up India's prestige as a future superpower with showcase projects, than in bringing up the standards of living for those below them.

A lot of people are complaining that India is being painted as a poor nation, but maybe the way to stop that is to address the core issue and provide basic services and decent education to the poorest , rather than hiding them behind flashy skyscrapers and rockets.

[Kryten]

Spokespeople at the Indian space agency have stated that their intention was to beat the Chinese to Mars because so far China had beaten them to other space goals. The indian space agency may have made profits from commercial launches, and may have put a load of weather and environmental satellites into orbit that benefit their country, however, this mission won't do any of that. It may bring back some good scientific data, but it's real purpose is to be a big 75 million dollar middle finger to China.

Source? I've seen explicit statements from ISRO employees that they didn't time this mission in order to beat the chinese.

[OrtwinS]

Congratulations India!

I live in Europe, but have spend a month in India, in the 'real' India. And anyone who's 'really' been there knows there is no singular 'India'. There is no way you can generalize such a huge and diverse country. And there is NO way any 'westerner' can criticize India without having to touch upon our own hypocrite (political) deeds in past and present.

The bottom line in my opinion is that this is a great achievement, and it will certainly benefit India's entire population.

Though it is not the simple less-than-3 step causality chain that most people seem to prefer.

[Holo]

Why are people saying that the space program and social development are at odds with each other, as if you can only choose one of the two?

Don't you know? All countries have to choose between spending 0% or 100% of their GDP on space programs. There's no middle ground.

Although really, how can you justify any sort of research when there are probably people starving somewhere?

Edited November 8, 2013 by Holo

[Karriz]

It's a really good thing that India has a space program. It'll bring long-term benefits to the country for sure.

If we really need to complain about the expenses of something, it shouldn't be the space program, which by the way has so tiny budget it wouldn't make a difference anyways.

[NASAFanboy]

China has pollution, overpopulation, an openly oppressive goverment, internal corruption, and horrid labor conditions. Yet they advance, and are cheered on.

India has pollution, overpopluation, an openly corrupt government, culture wars, and horrid labor conditions. Yet, everytime they advance, they get bashed for not "helping the poor".

Tell me, what makes the difference between China and India? India deserves to be cheered on as much as the Chinese, yet I see none of such encouragement. As much as I hate to say it, people starve to death in the US, people live in slums in the US, and the NSA is watching all of us. But what makes the difference? The US won't admit it's own probelms, nethier would the Chinese. But thanks to the fact that India has stepped up to the plate and has admitted it's probelms internationally and asked for aid, does it mean that they are prohibited to launching rockets into space?

While somemay argue that "conditions in China are improving", you've obivously never seen the western cities of China, or the red-light districts of the Eastern cities. Horrible. Skyrocketing crime rates, heavy local ogverment corruption, biased and oppressive police forces, increasing suicide rates, heavy pollution. India is the same. And yet they both have dreams, a space program that deserves in EVERY RESPECT to be cheered on!

Having probelms does not quash ones dreams! Let the Indian's have their space program!

Edited November 8, 2013 by NASAFanboy

[metaphor]

Although really, how can you justify any sort of research when there are probably people starving somewhere?

How can you justify not doing any sort of research when there are people starving somewhere? Research helps people who are starving. It's impossible to have 7 billion people on the planet without using advanced technology. If we had the technology of 100 years ago today, there would be widespread famine everywhere (also death and disease).

Also, research into different sciences is interlinked. You can't just research one specific area and expect to perfect it. The most important scientific advances happen when you combine different scientific fields together. And spaceflight is one of the most multidisciplinary endeavors. For example, technology developed for the Hubble telescope is now being used to diagnose breast cancer. Back in the early 1900s, if you put together hundreds of experts in oven technology and asked them to design a better oven, you might get something that uses less wood or gets hotter temperatures, but you would never get a microwave oven before a physicist discovers microwaves.

[Camacha]

It is folly to think building a country only means starting from the bottom. That way you never have a chance to play with the 'big boys'. Instead of a vertical approach, you need to work horizontally. Everything should be worked on, the big problems a little more than the smaller problems, exactely what India is doing by spending a lot of money on beating poverty and a little bit on a space program.

You really do not understand the basics of economy if you do not understand that a large lower class can not rise without the development of a steadily increasing middle-upper class. That is an upper class that did not get where they are because of how they were born, but because of what they learned and developed. Exactly what an India trying to get rid of the caste system needs.

You simply cannot exclusively work on the poorest and expect the whole country to move forward at a reasonable pace. You need to start higher up simultaneously, pushing the entire nation forward.