andqui Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 I really like how the power/life support consumptions are tracked for inactive ships, though I might(?) be having a problem. I have a com network of three satellites at 2,500 km orbits, with enough solar panels to power them. If I control them as the active vessel, I can verify that they produce more charge in daylight than when they are in the planet's shadow, no problem. However, your mod doesn't seem to factor in power regenerated, only power drain, so that whenever I leave and don't focus on the com satellites for a few days or so, when I go back each one will have lost all power, as if they were never recharging. When I jump in to "control" them as the active vessel, the solar panels start working again and power starts to regenerate. I don't know if this is a problem- my network has several layers of redundancy and I haven't noticed any signal losses, but I don't know if it's working as designed. The panels on the satellites are fixed, and the satellite has to be rotated to face the sun to generate power; I've done that, and when I go back to them, they remain in the orientation I left them. Maybe the mod doesn't bother calculating direct sun exposure for every active vessel for performance reasons?thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmi Posted November 29, 2013 Author Share Posted November 29, 2013 (edited) I really like how the power/life support consumptions are tracked for inactive ships, though I might(?) be having a problem. I have a com network of three satellites at 2,500 km orbits, with enough solar panels to power them. If I control them as the active vessel, I can verify that they produce more charge in daylight than when they are in the planet's shadow, no problem. However, your mod doesn't seem to factor in power regenerated, only power drain, so that whenever I leave and don't focus on the com satellites for a few days or so, when I go back each one will have lost all power, as if they were never recharging. When I jump in to "control" them as the active vessel, the solar panels start working again and power starts to regenerate. I don't know if this is a problem- my network has several layers of redundancy and I haven't noticed any signal losses, but I don't know if it's working as designed. The panels on the satellites are fixed, and the satellite has to be rotated to face the sun to generate power; I've done that, and when I go back to them, they remain in the orientation I left them. Maybe the mod doesn't bother calculating direct sun exposure for every active vessel for performance reasons?thanksYou can view resources "balance" for inactive vessels by selecting them in the map view and clicking "Resources" button in ECLSS window - try warping around to see what it's like during the sunlight and in shadow. It would also help me a lot if you post the .craft file for your sat (without LV please, only the sat itself), and the save file where it's in orbit, so I could check what's going on.Oh, and it does calculate shadowing for every vessel, but it's doesn't take into account solar panels orientation - it always assumes they are in attitude for max power generation, since here I hit limitations of the way KSP works (and keeping in mind that you can't actually maintain attitude for inactive vessels so non-sun-tracking vessels would have big problems with power generation). Of course this is a bit of simplification, but I'm ok to accept that one since the alternative - not having that ability at all - is worse IHMO. Edited November 29, 2013 by asmi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donziboy2 Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Working on it now. So I'm using the existing setup where for each kerbal the pod supports, it gets an oxygen candle, 400 oxygen, and 400 co2 storage. I'm looking at the crew tanks now and while maybe it shouldn't get the full resources a pod would, it seems weird that they'd get a value of 0. These things don't come shrinkwrapped in a vacuum! Right?... right?...So, what are the units of o2/co2 in? 400 units is what, 400 liters? 400 grams? If I know the measurement, I can give some basic support to crew tanks as well as the pods.Atm its 1.43mg/unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennyTX Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 well, i saw kerbals dyings when oxygen finished. but nothing happens when dioxide is full...thats should be?also, should be good to add a minute of life after oxigen completly finished (to say RIP ). and dont let eva kerbal to withdraw all oxygen when there are not enuff oxygen (less than 5 hours) let eva kerbal get only a half of remains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerbMav Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 nothing happens when dioxide is full...CO2 is just stored in a buffer for the reprocessing into O2, excess is vented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andqui Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 You can view resources "balance" for inactive vessels by selecting them in the map view and clicking "Resources" button in ECLSS window - try warping around to see what it's like during the sunlight and in shadow. It would also help me a lot if you post the .craft file for your sat (without LV please, only the sat itself), and the save file where it's in orbit, so I could check what's going on.http://www./download/1ewr5fb54dcpifx/Solar%20Regeneration.rarHere is the link to the save/craft file. Some of the satellites are still attached to the upper stages so I left that as well- the ones in question are the 3 x CommSat1 satellites in 2,500 km orbits. This is using Real Solar System, and the mods for Real Progression Lite. Thanks for taking a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmi Posted November 29, 2013 Author Share Posted November 29, 2013 and dont let eva kerbal to withdraw all oxygen when there are not enuff oxygen (less than 5 hours) let eva kerbal get only a half of remainsYou haven't actually tried that, have you? Because if you would have, you'd know that that's exactly what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmi Posted November 29, 2013 Author Share Posted November 29, 2013 http://www./download/1ewr5fb54dcpifx/Solar%20Regeneration.rarHere is the link to the save/craft file. Some of the satellites are still attached to the upper stages so I left that as well- the ones in question are the 3 x CommSat1 satellites in 2,500 km orbits. This is using Real Solar System, and the mods for Real Progression Lite. Thanks for taking a look.From the first look, nothing seems to be wrong there. Can you please post a log file as well? Maybe there is anything that would give me a clue of what's going on. The question - are these stock solar panels, or they are from some mod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andqui Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 From the first look, nothing seems to be wrong there. Can you please post a log file as well? Maybe there is anything that would give me a clue of what's going on. The question - are these stock solar panels, or they are from some mod?If you look from the north pole, the three satellites are orbiting counter-clockwise. If you go to the one in the middle, it starts with essentially 0 power, despite starting in sunlight. When you go to it, it will start regenerating once it becomes the active vessel. I then jumped to the "last" one, the one that's just emerging from the earth's shadow, fast forward 7 hours or so, and then jump back to the middle one, and it hasn't regenerated any power in that interval and is still close to 0. The solar panels are the stock first-tier ones, but have had some parameters tweaked by the realism overhauls, but again still regenerate enough power when I have the vessel as active.Here is the log, let me know if you need anything else.http://www./view/1gil5ysb1h7v2a4/KSP.log Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrandom Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 CO2 is just stored in a buffer for the reprocessing into O2, excess is vented.I did not realize this. That means a CO2 scrubber capability is not needed! Cool. Now all we need is an smaller o2->co2 converter part (in addition to the existing one... and maybe a larger one that can handle a lot of Kerbals) and we're all set! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrandom Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 I've updated my additional configs to support the ALCOR lander cabin thingy:ECLSS_AdditionalPods_0.2.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerbMav Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 I did not realize this. That means a CO2 scrubber capability is not needed! Cool. Now all we need is an smaller o2->co2 converter part (in addition to the existing one... and maybe a larger one that can handle a lot of Kerbals) and we're all set!Isnt the scrubbet a converter?I am just answering by what I read while following the development of this mod, I have not actually used any lifesupport due to latent lazyness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrandom Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Isnt the scrubbet a converter?I am just answering by what I read while following the development of this mod, I have not actually used any lifesupport due to latent lazyness. A scrubber permanently removes co2, whereas a recycler converts some percentage of co2 into o2. For example, in IonCross Crew Support your crew can die from co2 poisoning when the co2 capacity fills up. You have to either scrub it or convert it into o2. (The converters run at less than 100% efficiency so you'll still eventually run out of o2, but it will take longer.)If ECLSS vents excess co2 then scrubber are not necessary. I do find IonCross to be a bit more realistic in this regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerbMav Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Eh ... I meant ECLSS removes CO2 from the atmosphere inside the craft and stores it for a recycler to convert to O2 - the CO2 that cannot be stored is "lost". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmi Posted November 30, 2013 Author Share Posted November 30, 2013 (edited) Here is the log, let me know if you need anything else.http://www./view/1gil5ysb1h7v2a4/KSP.logThank you for your help!It looks like the problem is with the way RSS "fixes" solar panels, which Nathan has promised to fix in the next release. Please try the following: 1. Back up file RealSolarSystemSettings.cfg, copy section "powerCurve" somewhere, then delete it from the file and save it.2. Go into folder Squad\Parts\Electrical\solarPanels5, open part.cfg there (make a backup!), look for powerCurve section and replace it with whatever is in abovementioned config file.Make sure you put your backups outside your KSP directory to prevent loading up two configs for the same part, which can lead to conflicts.Load KSP and check if issue still persists. Edited November 30, 2013 by asmi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ymir9 Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Unless CO2 accumulation is going to be toxic and processing it or expelling it is particularly difficult or onerous, I don't see what the point of having CO2 tanks is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrandom Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 It looks like the problem is with the way RSS "fixes" solar panels, which Nathan has promised to fix in the next release. Please try the following:Should we do this with all of the solar panel .cfg files or just solarPanels5.cfg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanKell Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 jrandom: let me know if the file I PM'd you fixes the issue. If not, still got a problem with RSS/ECLSS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtedastro Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Just a quick question... It seems, at least for my current setup, that the more items i have in orbit, the more this mod is 'working' and pulling frame rate down... I have several different communication relay networks that I am testing and even though they do not have any kerbals or any parts from this mod, the more that i put up, the more pulling down of performance. I have run tests with different numbers of communication sats and watched the frame rate come down, and then disable lifesupport and rate goes right back up... Is there any chance that somehow this mod is iterating or doing some checking or work on craft even if there are no lifesupport parts or issues with that craft?I will keep testing from my side, but just wanted to ask...Thanks for any info, thoughts or ideas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrandom Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 jrandom: let me know if the file I PM'd you fixes the issue. If not, still got a problem with RSS/ECLSS.I wasn't the one having the issue (I'm still building my first comms satellite fer cryin' out loud!) and just wanted to preemptively avoid the problem. I've installed the file and am booting up KSP again. If I hit any issues, I'll let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmi Posted November 30, 2013 Author Share Posted November 30, 2013 Should we do this with all of the solar panel .cfg files or just solarPanels5.cfg?It's just to confirm my diagnosis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrandom Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 A question about the recycler since I can't quite tell from watching the numbers: what is its efficiency? If I have 100 units of o2 that all get converted to co2, and then I run the recycler, will I regain all 100 units of o2, or some fraction less than that? (Eg. 100% efficiency is undesired since all you'd need is a recycler and a small o2/co2 tank to keep the crew alive forever, destroying the need for a life support mod in the first place.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toril Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 love the mod, and maybe its just me, but has anyone else had ending/recovering flights from the tracking station become impossible for them? in my case it also allows for endless science as I get science for the recovery before it stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrandom Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 love the mod, and maybe its just me, but has anyone else had ending/recovering flights from the tracking station become impossible for them? in my case it also allows for endless science as I get science for the recovery before it stops.I can't recover from the tracking station -- I have to switch to the vessel and mouseover the altimeter to get the Recover button that pops down. That one seems to still work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 I can confirm that this is happening. I can terminate a flight, but not recover it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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