[WIP] Gizmo Rocketry Concepts

[CluelessModeler]

Hello folks!

I'm just your average everyday college student who finds things to keep him busy when not focusing on school.

I figured I'd just throw out a few models that I put together out there for people to gauge interest.

The first one I've gotten done is an Atlas V knockoff, I understand that the ULA Group made a scale model of the Atlas V and Delta IV, this project is IN NO WAY designed to step on their toes. They've made a great pack, and, when they get around to updating it, I admit that I'll get it and use it quite often! So, props to them!

Anyways, this Atlas V (Affectionately named "Katlas"), is completely not to scale, and I have absolutely no experience with Unity. I've tried it, but everytime I get it to the point where I think it's going to work in KSP, it never loads. Suggestions are welcome!!!

Now, here's the 3d model;

Atlas 5 (click to view in 3D)

I couldn't figure out Sketchfab after a long day at school, so, here's some profile pictures to show the VERY VERY basic textures that I've managed to put together!

Any comments and feedback, both positive and negative, would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks for your support!

CluelessModeler

[The Destroyer]

I do like!

[CluelessModeler]

Appreciate it Destroyer! Any ideas/suggestions for it?

[CluelessModeler]

So, I've been doing some more modelling. Got a .64 scale model of the Minotaur One!

Any thoughts?

Since the last update, I've been studying up on how to work Unity. But, seeing as how finals are next week, I doubt I'll have much time to work on it. But I will try!

[Guest]

Looks nice. While we do a have a nice Atlas V in the United Launch Alliance pack, nobody has yet tackled Minotaur family. Maybe you could do an American solid rocket stage pack, too? Altair, Castor and Star families were very common on early Atlas and Delta rockets, while Orion, Algol and Antares families were often used in stand-alone launchers. Upper stage solids are pretty simple-looking, and there's plenty of commonality, so you'd create a lot of options with such a pack.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Guest

[CluelessModeler]

Sounds like a challenge! And I accept! I'll start right now!

The Atlas V was really just an experiment to see if I could do it. Like I've said before, that I like the one that the ULA team put together! I just wanted to maybe give them another option, if they want it, I'll gladly send them the models!

Edited December 2, 2013 by CluelessModeler
Hit enter too soon...

[Guest]

That would be great, I can help you with configs. You could really make a lot with just a few cans of gunpowder. For example:

Right now, you've already made Orion 50XL and Orion 38 (3rd and 4th Minotaur 1 stages). Orion 50S is a shortened Orion 50XL. If you made a wing module and tailfins for that, you could have a Pegasus. A Castor 120 booster (or an SR-118) and additional Orion versions (ST and T, also seem to vary mostly by length) would make you a Taurus. By adding a Star-48V and Star-37FMV, you could have the rest of Minotaur family. There are some nice possibilities there. You'd probably want HAPS and Super HAPS stages to make fine-tuning an orbit after a solid-only launch easier, but that's not completely necessary.

Here's a nice reference for how this stuff looks like: http://andegraf.com/rockets/us_solid.htm

After that, you could probably look into Conestoga. Castor booster family would be useful for various applications, and you can re-use the Star-48V.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Guest

[CluelessModeler]

That seems reasonable, but, I'm going to start with the ATK customer Guide. I just downloaded it, and wow... There's a metric crap ton of variations of Solid Rocket Motors that are in service. I guess I really never paid attention to what I couldn't see looking out my window in Florida.

I figured I'd start with a few, just to gauge interest.

Orion 38

Orion 50

Orion 50XL

Orion 50XLG

Castor IVB

Castor 120

LCS I

LCS III

GEM-40 VN

GEM-46

GEM-60

If possible, I'll get in contact with whoever made the custom SRB's to see if I can make the RSRM stackable in KSP. (Or, if they want I'll just make the models for them to release, I'm not too particular.)

I figure that order would give people relatively useful sized upper stage SRB's to use on their Kerbal Creations. With tweakables, I don't think it'd be going too far to assume that I could put out only 1 or 2 models per size group and then people could use that to customize them to whatever they need.

Now, all that being said, I would be greatly appreciative if you could help me out with the configs! That'd be pretty much awesome!

Edited December 2, 2013 by CluelessModeler
Orion 32 needs to be 38

[Guest]

I'm not sure if Large Class Stage is used anywhere but in ICBMs. GEMs don't make sense unless you're also making the Delta series rockets, which are the only ones using them. As for RSRMs, we've got a lot of models for those already. BobCat made both 5 and 4 segment versions, and there's another 4-segment one in 1-1 size. I agree with other choices though. I'd also add some Star motors. Star-37 and 48 were the most notable ones, but there were many, many others. You may check this out, this features most important ATK motors: http://www.atk.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/ATK-Motor-Catalog-2012.pdf

[CluelessModeler]

Ok, so I'll cancel the RSRMs, add some of the Star series for now... I've already remodeled my version of the Orion-38.

But, should I set these to the smallest size that stock KSP uses? Or should I just do very literal .64 scale versions of these? My kinda thought process is that I should use the stock sizes just because in my own experience, if I can't use a part without matching scales, within reason, I don't use them.

Also, does KSP accept using the Mirror effect in blender? I haven't seen much of that going around.

[Guest]

Well, I prefer a precise 64% rescale, but that's not the only option. Remember, small upper stage boosters like Orion-38 and most Stars are hidden under a fairing along with the payload, so their radius is not really important. So, it depends on what you're going for with your 1st stage motors. If you're interested in making complete LVs from them, then it'd be better tho scale them precisely. If you just want to make a lot of boosters, then "stock" sizes would be better. That said, if you go to stock scale, it'd be impossible to make the boosters have proper proportions with regards to each other. You could also go 1:1 scale. Castor 120 would then end up being 3m (not 3.75m, but you can get parts in that size, and there are always procedural adapters), which isn't ideal, but manageable in KSP size. However, unless using Real Solar System, it won't go well with existing historical rocket packs (with which those upper stages would go really well if properly scaled).

[BlazingAngel665]

Good looking stuff. The Atlas looks quite nice. The Delta I did was a write off but I never finished the remake. Wish I had but school kinda has a way of sucking the time right out of your life. Glad to see the ULA stuff lives on. If you need any unity help then drop me a line. Ditto for configs, reference photos or anything really. Carry on.

[CluelessModeler]

Thanks BlazingAngel! Will probably hit you up tomorrow for help with Unity!

But, WRT your last post Dragon, I guess you're right. No one wants a 3m upper stage booster. (At least, I can't imagine the need for that being very large.) So, it's only logical to build 64% rescales of the original model. I guess that's what I'll do. I'll have more updates tomorrow! Thanks a lot for the help man!

[NathanKell]

So, since the use case of these are probably going to be 50% with Real Solar System (making and using the actual launchers with real Earth), I'm going to second Dragon01 and ask for exact scale copies--in whatever scale you choose, as long as it's easily rescalable to 100% real size.

That list was good; I'd add some older stuff though, like the original Castor (aka Sergeant, or rather the SRM inside the Sergeant)--needed for TONS of early stuff like Scout, Juno, Little Joe; Algol, for Scout and Little Joe II; Antares and Altair, the Scout's upper stages (and used for the Vanguard upper stage, and early Thor-Deltas)...

[CluelessModeler]

Now that I've slept on it, it does make more sense to go with the 64% scale. However, for the people who want to use it with the Real Solar System mod, could I just build it at a 1:1 scale in Blender, and scale it 64% using the config file? That way, all one would have to do is just change the scale value to 1.0, as opposed to 0.64?

[Guest]

You could do it like that, sure. That would simplify things a bit and make size calculations more intuitive.

Also, Castor 1 and "Baby Sergeant" are two different things. I think it'd be better to leave the latter to Frizzank, it'd go well with FASA lineup. It was used, in large clusters, as upper stages for Redstone-derived Juno I LV (as well as Juno II, but FASA doesn't have a Jupiter core for it) and Jupiter-C suborbital rocket.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Guest

[Themorris]

Also, does KSP accept using the Mirror effect in blender? I haven't seen much of that going around.

No, the mirror-effect is a blender internal(I think you mean the material setting for mirror) setting for the old render engine in blender. It also doesn't work in blenders internal game engine in realtime, unless you write a shader. Because this mirror effect needs a environment box which has a mirror texture, it isn't a real mirror reflection. I think unity can somehow do a realtime mirror effect, but I have no clue how. Also I don't know, if ksp accepts custom materials.

greetings,

Themorris

[CluelessModeler]

Thanks Morris! I kinda figured that was the case, but I do remember someone writing a shader to make a mirrored effect. I can't recall the name of the mod, but, it's somewhere out there. Think I'll just leave that to someone smarter than I.

Dragon, I was going to just go with the original list for a first release. If memory serves, I believe he was planning to do something with the Jupiter concepts. But, I'll probably put more Castor series later on down the road, I think that releasing just a few variations of sizes and types of upper stages will be best suited for an initial release. Then, I can do more specialized things later. Sound fair?

[CluelessModeler]

And the finished Orion 38!!!

Harray!

[Guest]

Good idea. The lineup in the OP would make us most of the Minotaur-Taurus-Pegasus lineup, so it'd be good to just go with it. We could add older stuff later.

[CluelessModeler]

Sounds like a plan!

In other news, I finally got a part into KSP. So, I might be figuring stuff out after all!

[CluelessModeler]

Ok, I've got a few questions...

I'm working on the calculations for changing different values for these engines, and I'm getting kind of confused. Please tell me if I'm doing something wrong.

Thrust for the Orion 50T is (According to ATK Product Guide) 122,099 LbF. I'm trying to change this to Kilonewtons (kN), for the config file...

Therefore, 122,099 lbF would equal roughly 890 kN? Correct?

Then, WRT to config files, the Mass would be the dry mass. So the weight of the fuel would be added to that, right? Or do I have to do the entire mass and it'll subtract the mass of the fuel from the total mass?

[Guest]

Don't scale performance, this is not worth the effort. Unless you're doing an RSS-based config, that is. For basic KSP, just use whatever works, don't bother with using real values, because they'll be massively overpowered.

The "mass" field in the config file is indeed dry mass, given in tons. Fuel mass is volume (in KSP units) times density (found in ResourcesGeneric.cfg in Squad folder).

[CluelessModeler]

I was going to do two configs, just to make it more user friendly, so you could just change out cfgs based on if you're using RSS or not.

I figured it was also dry mass, but I couldn't find anything on whether or not it was for sure! Thanks!

[Guest]

Good idea. Two configs, one for RSS, the other for stock-size KSP. That would save me some work.