[0.23.5] Realism Overhaul: ROv5.2 + Modlist for RSS 6/30/14

[RedAV8R]

Agathorn: To answer your other question in the MM thread you had...actually, when I get done, all RO files will have a :FOR[RealismOverhaul] tag on them, which means that you simply would need to add a :AFTER[RealismOverhaul] tag to the end of the call...like this...

@PART[*]:HAS[~RSSROEnabled[]]:AFTER[RealismOverhaul]
{
%category = -1
}

Speaking of that...for simple grammer...I believe we should change it to RSSROConfig = True, instead of 'Enabled' since that could be misinterpreted by the lay person.

[Agathorn]

No I don't check. I assumed that any subsequent ones would just reset the same attribute so the end result would be the same.

[RedAV8R]

No I don't check. I assumed that any subsequent ones would just reset the same attribute so the end result would be the same.

Fortunately the way KSP works it's not a game breaker, but for the sake of good programming you really aught to, just because it works, doesn't mean it's right. It would require making a database/array, which could be deleted when the script is done running, but if you are going to do it, do it right.

[Agathorn]

Thanks for the MM help. It definitely works as I have FAR less in my utility/science bins now

[BadRocketsCo.]

....

...

I will share the output_log soon as well

Okay, here is the log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7jogxjmqkcl9ljl/output_log.txthttps://www.dropbox.com/s/7jogxjmqkcl9ljl/output_log.txt. I found out, that the problem is generated by TweakableEverything, should I ask help from T.E thread instead?

Edited June 25, 2014 by BadRocketsCo.

[RedAV8R]

Okay, here is the log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7jogxjmqkcl9ljl/output_log.txthttps://www.dropbox.com/s/7jogxjmqkcl9ljl/output_log.txt. I found out, that the problem is generated by TweakableEverything, should I ask help from T.E thread instead?

Yep, there is nothing here we can do for you. Personally, as many problems as TweakableEverything introduces, you'd be wise to uninstall it and wait for a version which repairs everything. TweakableEverything does not play...nice...with A LOT of stuff.

[BadRocketsCo.]

Okay, thank you!

[Redrobin]

It would be way cool if someone would upload a GameData folder with all of the mods in it

[coldblade2000]

Just wondering: how far away are you from being fairly finished (starting bug-testing) with the update?

I'm sorry if any of you take offence, I'm not rushing you or anything

[RedAV8R]

If you want the latest go grab everything from github. Since there isnt any source to compile its all MM patches. Thatll be v5.2. NK has a few last touches and that release will be out. My overhaul should be v6 its that big. Likely won't be released until 0.24 of KSP is out with that around the corner and we make appropriate changes to support that.

What I can do now is nearly done...a good solid day should be enough...then I can go back with bug testing.

Edited June 26, 2014 by RedAV8R

[BadRocketsCo.]

It would be way cool if someone would upload a GameData folder with all of the mods in it

Wouldn't legal reasons get in the way?

[IronGremlin]

Wouldn't legal reasons get in the way?

Yes.

What you could do, however, is make an executable shell script to extract all of the mods to the proper places in the proper order.

It would be tragically easy for a knowledgeable person to do this in OSX/Linux, not sure about Windows, although I assume it would be simple enough. Assuming you used like, a real programing language, it'd probably get easier to maintain and do cross OS stuff.

I was toying around with this a few weeks ago but got a brand new job before I got very far - good for me, bad for side projects.

If you really want to see something of that sort, you could probably learn to make it yourself - it'd be a great way to learn basic scripting and/or programming skills, if you're into that sort of thing.

[AndreyATGB]

Can v6 get rid of the immense clutter RO introduces right now, more specifically structural and aerodynamic sections. There is no need for tens of parachutes, nosecones and structural beams in a world of RealChute, ProceduralParts and TweakScale. My main problems with RO in general are the clutter and even though I have 3 pages of engines, 1-2 of them seems to be useful at any one time.

So a shorter way of saying all that:

-Remove all added parachutes and nose cones while hiding all stock ones since they're the wrong size.

-remove all structural parts added, all the bigger/smaller struts are annoying and unnecessary IMO. The stock ones are enough to make just about any length you want.

Edited June 26, 2014 by AndreyATGB

[RedAV8R]

Can v6 get rid of the immense clutter RO introduces right now, more specifically structural and aerodynamic sections. There is no need for tens of parachutes, nosecones and structural beams in a world of RealChute, ProceduralParts and TweakScale. My main problems with RO in general are the clutter and even though I have 3 pages of engines, 1-2 of them seems to be useful at any one time.

So a shorter way of saying all that:

-Remove all added parachutes and nose cones while hiding all stock ones since they're the wrong size.

-remove all structural parts added, all the bigger/smaller struts are annoying and unnecessary IMO. The stock ones are enough to make just about any length you want.

Why, yes, that is exactly the purpose and reasoning behind v6.

All stock KSP parts are going to be using TweakScale with RO type scaling where appropriate. This removes approximately 67 parts from the list, while giving a user easier access to what they want, and actually gives a user MORE selections as parts will now go up to 5m.

Now, added parts as part of like FASA pack and things will still be there. That includes having a wide selection of payload bases and nosecone sections to match what was available on the real Agena, Atlas, and Titan missions. Those I will not depreciate out, however those only appear when FASA is installed as well.

In addition, I'm slightly modifying the folder structure, so that my realism patches are in folders matching the mod they rework, so there is a 'FASA' folder within the 'RedAV8R' folder...this is an easy fix for people, like me, who use PartCatalog (seriously why wouldn't a person? Anywho). All a person needs to do is simply select all the folders, cut and paste into their main GameData folder, which will then insert those *.cfg files into their respective mod folders, this process will automatically put new parts created in certain mods to appear in the part list under those mod's tab.

[cardgame]

I'm experiencing some difficulties that I never had a few months earlier. Trying to launch tier 1 stuff, but my staging seems to break the camera. Almost every time I stage, or launch a new engine, the camera breaks and effectively ends my flight. My top stages, with intact crew, pod, etc. are labelled as 'debris' when they get far enough away from the "crash site" in midair. WTF?

I'm aware that I'm probably breaking FAR aerodynamics somehow - this happens every time at 'high dynamic pressure' but this isn't right. I should at least be able to control my pod and set her down with parachutes. What makes this unusual is that sometimes I will retain controls after these pseudocrashes, and I can start the next stage. This is impossible to my knowledge in stock KSP. Then, the usual result is that my kerbal will die from g-force even though the instrument doesn't read over 5G and the pod itself is perfectly fine. The instruments aren't frozen, either, like they normally would be in a crash - the altitude meter keeps going up with my pod.

I have all the required mods installed and up to date. I'm not sure how else to describe the problem.

Edited June 27, 2014 by cardgame

[Hodo]

I am getting this fault in my Output log, not sure what is causing it.

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d3d49558e4d408f4/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 53)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at rangeBooster.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

(Filename: Line: -1)

Then after a few thousand lines of that... this shows up.

NullReferenceException

at (wrapper managed-to-native) UnityEngine.GameObject:get_transform ()

at PersistentEmitterManager.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

(Filename: Line: -1)

NullReferenceException

at (wrapper managed-to-native) UnityEngine.ParticleEmitter:get_particles ()

at EffectBehaviour.OffsetParticles (Vector3 offset) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Krakensbane.setOffset (Vector3d offset) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Krakensbane.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

(Filename: Line: -1)

Any ideas?

[cardgame]

There also seems to be something wrong with the Moon.

I checked my files, I don't have anything overwriting the moon's textures or anything.

[AndreyATGB]

That's because of some EVE pack you're using. Go select the moon and lower the altitude of whatever layer is causing that.

[cardgame]

Ah, I thought I had Astronomer's tuned for RSS but apparently not. Thank you Andrey.

[Hodo]

I am getting this fault in my Output log, not sure what is causing it.

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d3d49558e4d408f4/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 53)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at rangeBooster.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

(Filename: Line: -1)

Then after a few thousand lines of that... this shows up.

NullReferenceException

at (wrapper managed-to-native) UnityEngine.GameObject:get_transform ()

at PersistentEmitterManager.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

(Filename: Line: -1)

NullReferenceException

at (wrapper managed-to-native) UnityEngine.ParticleEmitter:get_particles ()

at EffectBehaviour.OffsetParticles (Vector3 offset) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Krakensbane.setOffset (Vector3d offset) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Krakensbane.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

(Filename: Line: -1)

Any ideas?

So no one has any idea what might be causing these errors?

[RedAV8R]

So no one has any idea what might be causing these errors?

Does this error cause KSP to stop working???

What did you do immediately previous to this error???

Have you followed the 'standard' steps of troubleshooting KSP???

[Benoit Hage]

Hello.

After some rockets construction, I found myself in a situation where I need bigger fuel stage separation motors. Indeed, the stock one is now unusable for the lower stage unless you add a myriad of them which is unesthetic. Even the most powerful one I have, the KW one, is reaching its limit quite fast. My purpose is to be able to separate huge SRB's verticaly as efficiently as if they were horizontal compared to the ground and not using twenty. Only then, will I accept that separation system as approved .

So, I wanted to create some rescaled copies of the already existent ones. But I'm now facing a game balance problem: Let's take the KW ullage motor mentionned above. It has a thrust of 75 with 30 of solid fuel in it for a total mass of 0.25. Now let's imagine that I want to have a total thrust of 750 with the same burn time, does it mean that I multiply the amount of fuel and mass by 10 as well? And if yes, is the rescale factor ( scale = X in the config file ) also multiplies by 10?

Because, if I take a cylinder of... 2 in height and 3 in radius, that gives me a total volume of around 37.68. If I double those values, I have a total volume of 301.44... so I'm not sure about which value should be put for the rescale factor to be correct and subsequently the new mass and quantity of solid fuel in it. Do I have to get as closely as possible to 300 ( 75 of thrust -> I want 750 ... so 30 of solid fuel -> I need 300? ) of solid fuel ( as in the volume ) with the cylinder formula and after, I will be able to determine the rest of the values?

I therefor humbly ask for help because just changing the thrust value in the config file would be cheating!

[RedAV8R]

Benoit, for wisdom to your "problem"...let's look at some real numbers.

Take the Saturn. There were 4 retro-rockets on the S-IVB Aft Interstage that fired upon S-II separation. Each empty weighed 25kg and had a bit over 120kg of propellant and provided a bit over 154kN of thrust. S-II Ullage rockets (up to 8 of them) were very similar but about 30kg heavier worth of propellant, they provided 33% less thrust, but fired longer. The S-IC separation motors (also up to 8) were smaller, providing only 50kN each. Now obviously this staging is different than SRB separation...

So lets look at the Shuttle SRBs, the largest solids ever flown. Each SRB had 8 separation motors on it, 4 forward, and 4 aft. Each weighed 73kg with 34.5kg being propellant, each fired for 0.8sec with a max of 129.5kN thrust with the average 82.6. Total impulse was 78.1 kNs.

So...The KW motors, which haven't been touched (yet) provides close to the same thrust (average), and propellant load, EXCEPT for weighing about 200kg over what it should, performance isn't that far off what an actual S-SRB separation motor is, though after adding 8...adds 1.6tonnes of dead weight that shouldn't be there PER SRB...this will be corrected soon as part of RealEngines, that will be included with RO. , After all, this is "REALISM" Overhaul.

To answer the question otherwise...You are not understanding what the variables are in a config file, or basic geometry. I'll give you this, if you want the same burn time, then multiply fuel load by the same as what you did thrust, so 750kN vs 75kN = 10x, then 30L of solid fuel x10 = 300L, IF, Isp is also the same. You need to think this out, while the volume (of fuel) may have increased by a factor of 10, the mass of the container would not, as that is more closely related to the surface area of a shape than the volume. Continuing...No, 'scale = x' and 'rescaleFactor' does not do what you think it does. Both scale and rescaleFactor, depending on how they are used, affects the visual model and nodes, not mass, or thrust, or other stuff.

[Hodo]

Does this error cause KSP to stop working???

What did you do immediately previous to this error???

Have you followed the 'standard' steps of troubleshooting KSP???

It doesn't cause KSP to crash but it will after 30min of it cause loss of function. I will lose the ability to click any buttons on the screen, they will click but they will do nothing. All I did previous to this error was get to space. That is it. Anytime anything I make with an antenna goes to space, manned or unmanned it starts this error log.

[TeeGee]

When I am on the launch pad, the CO2 tanks get "refueled" by the launch clamps... how can I stop this from happening?