[0.22-0.23.0] Delta-V Maximization Challenge

[tavert]

@NeilC nice, a new absolute leader. You should delete the #0 at the end of your imgur link, it'll embed nicer.

At least a new leader until whatever numerobis is working on stops glitching, damn that's a lot of fuel tanks. Explosions that scatter massive numbers of parts like that are always entertaining.

[Seanner]

tavert I don't understand those calculations but it's bed time so maybe tomorrow I'll figure it out..but the part about ~200 m/s difference is interesting.

[numerobis]

241 mainsails, each has two orange tanks and the bigger grey tank. That should be able to bring a decent-size spacecraft to orbit in a single stage. Unfortunately, I might have to downscale my ambitions if I just explode on the pad.

[Nao]

241 mainsails, each has two orange tanks and the bigger grey tank. That should be able to bring a decent-size spacecraft to orbit in a single stage. Unfortunately, I might have to downscale my ambitions if I just explode on the pad.

I get the feeling that If I ever manage to get you and whackjob working on the same project i could actually have my dream "landscape rock" named gilly on my lawn.

[mhoram]

I give you this behemoth:

I like the design!

241 mainsails

I like the idea!

[obi_juan]

I'm trying to make a rocket similar to @NeilC, but still breaking (and blow up) in the first 10000m after lift off.

So I made a new rocket with only FL-T800 and FL-T400 Fuel Tanks.

The result was almost the same delta-V than my heavier design, but is more easy to fly with it.

*.craft

PD:I lost 400 delta-V because I include Reaction wheels to move better the ship in the space, and 6 batteries to have electric charge when the engine is off.

Edited November 30, 2013 by obi_juan

[mhoram]

New entry for me with 26128 dV

It's the first time I actually used 3-symmertry for staging.

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Edited August 8, 2014 by mhoram
Updated Gallery Link

[NeilC]

Done, thanks. Blind C&P from clicking on my album, didn't realize "#0" wasn't part of the base URL.

[mhoram]

I'm trying to make a rocket similar to @NeilC, but still breaking (and blow up) in the first 10000m after lift off.

So I made a new rocket with only FL-T800 and FL-T400 Fuel Tanks.

The result was almost the same delta-V than my heavier design, but is more easy to fly with it.

Thanks for the submission and sharing the .craft file!

Does the timing of the SRB's work or do you have to carry the empty tanks for a long time?

On another note we now know - if not before - that there are theoretical limits:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/60025-Maximum-possible-dV-for-a-single-stage

[tavert]

Here's an absolute entry, 32587 m/s with 145 parts, 1219 tons (possibly the heaviest thing I've built in KSP to date):

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This was giving me such a hard time, needing so many struts and constantly falling apart until I replaced most of the orange tanks with pairs of 32's.

So numerobis, how many km/s does your design get with 20 times as many engines?

Edited November 30, 2013 by tavert

[numerobis]

That was just the first stage, which can lift roughly 700t to LKO IIRC. If it worked, which it doesn't. Back to the drawing board!

[m1xte]

I can get little over 33kms when i load nuke and some 30 big tanks to my "orange monster"

Problem is the staging my lifter uses three stages to LKO, but it is powerful enough to lift taverts complete vessel to LKO if needed.

This challenge is "staging inefficiency challenge" or "5 stage challenge".

[Seanner]

tavert I copied your idea of using the super light top stage but otherwise tried to extend the record:

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I may also have to copy the all half-orange idea if that's truly the fix. A failed launch isn't normally a big deal, but it takes several minutes to go from VAB to launch to T+ 5s. Then when I click a part back in VAB and move the mouse, the laggy mouse event handler decides retroactively that I clicked an entire assembly, but after I put it back (30 seconds later of trying to get it to snap), it's like by the way everything's rotated and your struts don't connect anymore (undo doesn't help and takes about the same 30 seconds...). I may give up on this one...

[mhoram]

Here's an absolute entry, 32587 m/s

Well done!

This challenge is "staging inefficiency challenge" or "5 stage challenge".

One restriction I placed on this challenge is that at most 5 propellant stages can be used - using less will make it harder to compete.

In-/efficiency can be measured in different ways. For the sake of this challenge, only Delta-V counts and the ability of the rocket to reach space.

[Spartwo]

Jet engines don't have D/v

[m1xte]

Well done!

One restriction I placed on this challenge is that at most 5 propellant stages can be used - using less will make it harder to compete.

In-/efficiency can be measured in different ways. For the sake of this challenge, only Delta-V counts and the ability of the rocket to reach space.

Everything by the rules 36.5km/s

It will reach LKO but i dont bother.

[mhoram]

Everything by the rules 36.5km/s

It will reach LKO but i dont bother.

A TWR of 0.00 is probably a bit low for liftoff.

This submission is not entirely in the spirit of the challenge.

Edited November 30, 2013 by mhoram

[obi_juan]

Thanks for the submission and sharing the .craft file!

Does the timing of the SRB's work or do you have to carry the empty tanks for a long time?

Oh, no. I eject the SRB just when they finish the combustion.

In reality I made the model with only 5 stages (0 to 4) but to obtain a stable orbit I need a bit of the third stage (Stage 2) As you can see in the next images.

So in a quick change I include the SRB to obtain a more than 300m/s and arrive to orbit without use the whole Stage 3.

I think that I could improve the model, but I don't know if I could surpass the actual top... 32587m/s it is a bit extreme.

I like this challenge, because is necessary to obtain the orbit with the same rocket, and there is also a limitation to use only 6 stages.

In reality to obtain a high delta-V is very easy, you only need one rocket and take all the fuel with it... But there a "limit" on the fuel that a ship can carry, if you have in a stage in a rocket with for example 6000m/s of delta-V duplicate the amount of fuel only increase the delta-V to 7500m/s so do you need to evaluate how if is better to have a new stage or only increase the amount of fuel.

For example the submission of tavert is exceptional, but in the 4 remain stages he has 10621; 12090 and 5218m/s I think that is possible to increase these values, with the *.craft file it will be easy to increase the delta-V of the last stage to obtain a value near of 10000m/s losing less than 2000ms in the previous stage.

[mhoram]

In reality I made the model with only 5 stages (0 to 4) but to obtain a stable orbit I need a bit of the third stage (Stage 2) As you can see in the next images.

For example the submission of tavert is exceptional, but in the 4 remain stages he has 10621; 12090 and 5218m/s I think that is possible to increase these values, with the *.craft file it will be easy to increase the delta-V of the last stage to obtain a value near of 10000m/s losing less than 2000ms in the previous stage.

21k dV is not bad for 4 stages!

Increasing the dV in tavert's last stage to 10000 would make this stage much heavier, because it would require a LV-N engine and lots of fuel.

The current mass of the last stage is about 1.3 ton and yields 5128 dV.

A last stage that offers 10000 dV has a mass of about 12.4 ton, so about 10 times the mass.

This would influence all previous stages and most likely yield worse total-dV values and with a certainty worse TWR values.

[NeilC]

I gotta give up on this one too. I've got a design that should be able to top Tavert's dV.... but I can't even get MechJeb to calculate its dV in the VAB due to bugginess.

Not structural problems, mind: straight up bugs in the VAB editor that corrupt the craft.

I can get 1/6th of it to build and calculate correctly. All I do between the 1st and following images is pick up the inner radial separator and switch to 6x symmetry.

If it worked, it would be the biggest thing I've ever built:

12x Giant boosters with 13x Aerospike

6x In-Line sustainers with 49x 48-7S

6x Orange drop tanks for nuke engine

1x Orange nuke sustainer

1x 48-7S final payload stage

Details below.

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[TUFOM]

This is actually "dumbed down" version (because of stage limit in this challenge) of my actual design which I use very often.

Total ÃŽâ€V @vac 14 357m/s

[obi_juan]

OK, at last... I know that I could do it by myself.

Is the heaviest rocket that I made until now... more than 2200t in the pad... Yesterday I made one with only 1777 but the final delta-V was 1000m/s lower than actual top.

So I improve my design to obtain this:

This rocket reach the orbit just with all the fuel spend

Changes.

My first concern was always... Why we cannot improve the Stage 0... So I made a few changes. In the Stage 0 my model have a battery a solar panel and 4 Sepratron I... that give me another 1200m/s. With all this improvements the mass of my Stage 0 is 0.3t 50% more than the original.

But I don't know if you allow this changes, so without the Sepratron I of the Stage 0 my delta V is 800m/s lower. The battery and the solar panel I need them to work the reaction wheels when the engine is off.

[tavert]

"and no additional parts" ... you can move the solar panel and battery to a lower stage and it should work the same way, maybe even a tiny bit more dV if you put them on stage 3 or 4. Nice numbers though, I'll have to decide whether or not to build another monster at a higher part count than my last one. I've got some on-paper designs at over 37 km/s, but won't know if they're realistically buildable or flyable unless I try. I've also been thinking about making a "classic staging" version, but not sure whether drop tanks would be acceptable for that.

Edited December 3, 2013 by tavert

[TUFOM]

Craft made just for this challenge, but seems to be that I am still far behind of best designers. =)

Edited December 3, 2013 by TUFOM

[dcethe]

27550

581 parts

Edited December 3, 2013 by dcethe