If I payed SpaceX to launch?

[tygoo7]

I don't know but I think they might if you have the money. The first thing that popped into my mind about launching a bus to space is this

[K^2]

Could such kickstarter really reach such goals?

No. The most funded ones were still in a few $M ranges. But if you can fund just a few percent, it can get enough publicity going to get other sources involved. Media rights on this ought to be worth a few $M as well. Maybe Red Bull would chip in. They tend to like this sort of publicity.

[hawkinator]

exactly. If the ball gets rolling, it could get rolling really big, and we will never know unless we try.

Also, preliminary research suggests that Kickstarter may not be the best place, on there we would need to fit it into one of these categories: Art

Comics, Dance, Design, Fashion, Film & Video, Food, Games, Music, Photography, Publishing, Technology, or Theater, otherwise it never even exists. Indiegogo, however, allows just about any cause, or so it would seem.

Edited November 28, 2013 by hawkinator

[razark]

Given they're planning to launch a rocket tomorrow, I doubt they're going to be off work.

I highly doubt the launch/mission crew and the sales department share much in the way of staff.

[K^2]

exactly. If the ball gets rolling, it could get rolling really big, and we will never know unless we try.

Also, preliminary research suggests that Kickstarter may not be the best place, on there we would need to fit it into one of these categories: Art

Comics, Dance, Design, Fashion, Film & Video, Food, Games, Music, Photography, Publishing, Technology, or Theater, otherwise it never even exists.

Clearly, this would be art.

[dharak1]

Why not use a half bus? Like the mini school buses. I think using one of those would be easier to use. We can assume it is at least 2/3 the weight leaving you with 10 tons. That means if we want it to be able to support life we have 3 tons of wiggle room for life support. if it just an empty useless bus the could probably fit all the control stuff in 3 tons.

[hawkinator]

Why not use a half bus? Like the mini school buses. I think using one of those would be easier to use. We can assume it is at least 2/3 the weight leaving you with 10 tons. That means if we want it to be able to support life we have 3 tons of wiggle room for life support. if it just an empty useless bus the could probably fit all the control stuff in 3 tons.

There is a possibility that if we used a half bus, then we would be able to share a launch with someone else who is also launching something into space. This would dramatically lower the cost...

[bigdad84]

Can't forget though, we still need a service module type thing to control the bus... That's going to take up some precious space. OR, we could add our own thrusters built into the bus, and remove the engine, and fill it with tanks!

[metalmouth7]

I dunno. I'd classify it as Photography - I'd want pictures. Lot's of 'em.

[dharak1]

That's what I was thinking, gut the bus put a couple engines on the sides and build in RCS and seal the windows pressurize the back half and put a docking port there. Bu taking out the engine you could considerably drop weight. And you would have to take off the wheels because they may pop.

Edit: K^2, on the subject of reentry We could use a teardrop shaped capsule That is dropped out of the bus. Probably partially built into the underside of the front.

Edited November 28, 2013 by dharak1

[K^2]

Why not use a half bus? Like the mini school buses. I think using one of those would be easier to use. We can assume it is at least 2/3 the weight leaving you with 10 tons. That means if we want it to be able to support life we have 3 tons of wiggle room for life support. if it just an empty useless bus the could probably fit all the control stuff in 3 tons.

Life support is pretty straight forward. Pressurizing the whole thing is just not practical. The best on-the-budget solution is a simple space-suit tied by umbilical to the life support system. Since the odds of a spark are now absolutely minimal, you can feed pure ox to the suit, requiring it to maintain only 1/5th bar. And all the "life support" is going to consist of is an air circulation system with some CO2 scrubbers and a bunch of oxygen tanks connected to it via pressure regulator valve. I can get most of the supplies at a diving store.

The downside is that pilot is going to be limited to liquid food, but that's probably not an issue for a short mission.

This leaves radiation protection and thermal regulation. Radiation shouldn't be too problematic. Might be worth it to look into which types of glass provide better protection, and maybe do metal coating like they do on space suit visors. Other than that, since it doesn't have to hold pressure, it doesn't have to be anything fancy. The metal body of the bus should provide adequate protection elsewhere.

This leaves temperature. Again, I vote for simple solutions. Make all of the top and side coating reflective. Underneath, attach some panels reflective on one side and black on the other. Between the panels, paint alternating black and reflective stripes. Flipping panels from one position to another switches between reflective and black coat, basically. Between that and adjusting orientation of the bus, it should be possible to maintain comfortable temperature of the frame. And since there is no air, the suit is going to be in radiation equilibrium with the walls of the bus.

Still leaves a lot of sub-systems. The thing will need propulsion, at least enough to re-enter. Maneuvering system. Navigation. Communication. Power. The total is going to be in millions, easy.

Oh, and like I said, there needs to be a return vehicle stored on board. There is no way in hell this thing is landing in one piece. Pilot would have to bail out during re-entry procedure. Return vehicle would need to have a heat shield, parachutes, life support, communication equipment, and probably a raft, since the only sane place to re-enter would be over an ocean. It's not much, but it's still a whole separate vehicle to build and test, and this one would have to be from scratch and 100% reliable. Not cheap.

P.S. And yes, I'd also vote short bus if it's meant to actually do anything up there. It would make it easier to re-enforce the frame and add all the necessary equipment. Would be easier to maneuver as well. And somehow, if you are launching a school bus into space, short bus just seems appropriate.

Edit: K^2, on the subject of reentry We could use a teardrop shaped capsule That is dropped out of the bus. Probably partially built into the underside of the front.

If it's compact enough, it might fit through the back door. Or maybe, the door should be made wider. Would make things easier.

Man, that'd be a wild ride.

Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, does it really need to be more than a heat shield with an oxygen tank? I mean, we've already seen a person jump down from 30km. All you should really need is a heat shield.

Edited November 28, 2013 by K^2

[dharak1]

So more than 100 million for this? Pretty pricey for a one-off. It would be awesome to watch it burn up as it came through the atmo, we would have to leave a camera streaming on it.

Edited November 28, 2013 by dharak1

[K^2]

Well, the navs can be built on the cheap. Electronics wouldn't have to live long, and I doubt it requires better radiation protection than the pilot. So you could probably just use a laptop with a GPS receiver. Just needs to be one of these unlocked receivers that can operate at 200km+ of altitude and 8km/s. Software is easy enough to write. Ditto communications.

The only parts that I can't think of how to do cheap are power production and propulsion. For the later, maybe talk to Virgin? See if they'd be willing to part with one of their hybrids from SST. It has sufficient kick, and it'd be a hell of a way to test it, as well as great promotion. For power, it'd have to be solar panels. Regular solar panels are cheap enough, but something tells me these won't cut it.

[dharak1]

Depends on how much power we plan on using as well as how long the mission will last, we could bring batteries with us if we don't plan on using much power and we have extra space. Batteries are heavy though... Maybe Copenhagen suborbitals could help with propulsion with a hybrid or liquid engine.

[K^2]

Maybe Copenhagen suborbitals could help with propulsion with a hybrid or liquid engine.

"We have an orbital bus that we'd like to make sub-orbital, so naturally, we thought of you."

But I don't think their stuff is quite in the right thrust range. The reason I thought of Virgin is that SpaceShipTwo is about 20,000lb. Engine from one of these is going to be just right.

[dharak1]

Sounds perfect. Still a problem of power though. I have no idea where to find space worthy panel prices.

[metalmouth7]

Don't bother with the panels then. Drop out the engine, the transmission and the axles. Then you can stuff in some BIG batteries. Due to the low power demand of such a mission, that's all you'd really need. As for propulsion, we could keep it simple, and just use a very large compressed gas system. To reduce heating, remove all the windows, cover them up with sheet metal, and spray the whole vehicle white. Creating a compressed crew compartment is very unrealistic. However, if the mission was kept VERY short, you could probably build a simple space suit by modifying some diving equipment.

The hardest part is bringing the crew BACK from such a mission. I suppose you could so something akin to NASA's MOOSE Concept (a self-contained re-entry vehicle,) however you'd need to find somebody crazy enough to ride back down on what essentially amounts to an orbital inflatable raft.

[dharak1]

I would ride one. Being the youngest person in space yet AND having the possibility of a noble space death? I'll take that. Also driving the first space bus? Cool. So many firsts.

[J.Random]

I would ride one. Being the youngest person in space yet AND having the possibility of a noble space death? I'll take that. Also driving the first space bus? Cool. So many firsts.

Don't forget Darwin Award.

[metalmouth7]

Actually, looking at some stats, you could probably use a small spherical capsule, something based of the Voskhod capsule maybe, using cork as an inner heat protective layer, and using a thick ceramic coating as an ablative layer. That said, it wouldn't be an ideal solution, but it'd get our Crosonaut home safely. It'd end up with a mass of around 2300-2700 kg, however. That is, however, based upon the stats for the Voskhod capsule. Ours, being a one man vehicle, could likely have an even lower mass, perhaps around 1700-2000 kg.

Edited November 28, 2013 by metalmouth7

[tom1499]

I suppose is a decent -if heavy- SCIENCE satellite casing.

[Nibb31]

To launch a satellite, the launch provider will require that the payload is properly insured in order to cover damages that might happen to the payload itself or be caused to third parties by the payload, including the school bus falling on an actual school, or hitting the ISS.

Insurance companies inspect and monitor spacecraft integration and testing before they agree to insure anything, so you would need to prove that your school bus won't risk falling down on someone, disrupting communications, or becoming a hazard to other spacecraft. That would include environmental testing in vacuum chambers and vibration testing, which are extremely expensive. Non-space-rated materials, like oil, paint, rubber, glue, etc... will probably burn off and evaporate in space, which would become a cloud of debris and might be considered a hazard. Anything that might break off during the launch (windows, mirrors, seats, bodywork...) could damage or unbalance the rocket during launch.

You will also need a launch licence from the FAA: http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ast/licenses_permits/

Of course, you wouldn't be able to get any of that paperwork with a cobbled together school bus. Unless you actually attach it to a proper generic satellite bus like a Boeing 702, with RCS and comms and controlled deorbiting provisions, and you ensure that everything is made of space-rated materials, that no debris will be created and nothing will fall off.

And of course, anything manned cobbled together with cork or aluminium foil is simply out of question whatever you do. FAA will not grant you a license. Insurance won't cover you. SpaceX will refuse to launch it.

Sorry for raining on the parade.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Nibb31

[Godot]

But why a bus?

Wouldn´t it make more sense to send something else up there?

For example this?

[nhnifong]

This is slowly but surely transforming from a bus into an actual spacecraft.

[metalmouth7]

To launch a satellite, the launch provider will require that the payload is properly insured in order to cover damages that might happen to the payload itself or be caused to third parties by the payload, including the school bus falling on an actual school, or hitting the ISS.

Insurance companies inspect and monitor spacecraft integration and testing before they agree to insure anything, so you would need to prove that your school bus won't risk falling down on someone, disrupting communications, or becoming a hazard to other spacecraft. That would include environmental testing in vacuum chambers and vibration testing, which are extremely expensive. Non-space-rated materials, like oil, paint, rubber, glue, etc... will probably burn off and evaporate in space, which would become a cloud of debris and might be considered a hazard. Anything that might break off during the launch (windows, mirrors, seats, bodywork...) could damage or unbalance the rocket during launch.

You will also need a launch licence from the FAA: http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ast/licenses_permits/

Of course, you wouldn't be able to get any of that paperwork with a cobbled together school bus. Unless you actually attach it to a proper generic satellite bus like a Boeing 702, with RCS and comms and controlled deorbiting provisions, and you ensure that everything is made of space-rated materials, that no debris will be created and nothing will fall off.

And of course, anything manned cobbled together with cork or aluminium foil is simply out of question whatever you do. FAA will not grant you a license. Insurance won't cover you. SpaceX will refuse to launch it.

Sorry for raining on the parade.

Not really raining, so much as causing me to rethink some things. Although cork *is* an accepted heat-absorbing material.

If you dropped the manned component of the mission, that begins pushing the mission towards the realm of possibility. If the "Space Bus" was completely stripped down of everything that wasn't needed (engine, transmission, axles, seats,) that should drop it's mass down to about 10000 pounds. You could squeeze a Boeing 702sp into our craft at that mass (that's another ~12000 pounds.) You can order spacecraft paint online, and I'd say that it would cost roughly $10000 to paint the whole thing.

The flight plan would have to be something that prevents any unneeded problems for our insurance, so take the easiest option - immediately boost it into a graveyard orbit. Looking at some space history brought me to the OSCAR 10 satellite. It functioned on mostly off-the-shelf hardware, including solar cells from Radio Shack. If we could purchase a number of solar cells, and just keep and use the most efficient, that'd leave us with a (although less than ideal,) power source. That leaves us with about 5000 pounds of room to play with. The actual amount will probably be lower than this, but it's still a bit of room to play with. We could possibly make use of the 702sp by selling space for some lightweight scientific equipment on board, helping cover the launch costs.