thanks for the heads up on .23

[Wahgineer]

probably because mods are now using alternate fuels (interstellar, impossible innovations, etc..)

I like the idea of alternative (and more efficient) fuels. Without them, reaching the Krag system is incredibly difficult...

1: those are mods

a:interstellar adds new engines that use a specific fuel, not new LV-Ns

2:Krag is a mod

3: The LV-N is based off of the real life NERVA, which only ran on liquid fuel

4: adding a special fuel for the LV-Ns would be a waste of effort since nothing else would use it.

[Beachernaut]

To clarify, there is absolutely nothing wrong with setting ambitious long-term goals, however there absolutely is something wrong with a player feeling a genuine and profound sense of loss from a broken save, feeling as though they are simply wasting time if they haven't the ability to save, or feeling any sort of negative impact whatsoever to their emotional well-being that stems from playing a game.

I believe this is a valid concern. When I lost my Duna base (my first expedition outside Kerbin's SOI) I was so unhappy that I didn't play KSP for a full week. That was a different situation since it was due to a hard drive crash, but the loss is still the same.

That said, expecting no save breaking changes in an Alpha game is setting yourself up for disappointment. Although that doesn't change the fact that you lost all of that work, it's still an unreasonable expectation. I don't believe the devs break saves lightly. I believe the changes that break saves are done for the betterment of our gaming experience. Those that have real trouble with breaking saves really should wait to play at least until the game is in beta. Not trying to be mean or offend anyone, but that's the reality IMO.

[Motokid600]

Time to bring all my kerbals home and deorbit everything. YES! I love this..

[little square dot]

I believe this is a valid concern. When I lost my Duna base (my first expedition outside Kerbin's SOI) I was so unhappy that I didn't play KSP for a full week. That was a different situation since it was due to a hard drive crash, but the loss is still the same.

Yeah, hd crashes are the worst, but the fact remains that the only thing making it so awful is our reluctance to stop dwelling on the perceived loss.

We all do it to some extent.

[FlamedSteak]

Arrgghh I need more time to get my Kerbals home....my last ditch Laythe lander is on the launch pad and a butt load of fuel is waiting for me in Laythe orbit.

[little square dot]

Who says you have to? On my hard drive I have 15.2, 16, 17, 18.4, 19.1, 20.2, 21.1, and 22. I had way too much fun with them to just get rid of them.

But what will you do with them, because I'm fairly certain that you won't be reverting to any of those past versions, so why keep them?

This is an example of our tendency towards developing illogical attachments to useless things that I was previously referring to. It's exactly the same mentality that leads to hoarding in extreme cases. It's the ol', "can't get rid of that! might have a use for it some day" trickery that we pull on ourselves despite knowing full-well that we're never going back to it.

This is why I delete them; I am not exempt from the urge to hang on to things strictly for purposes of nostalgia.

Every station I ever built and design I ever flew is still there. When a new version comes out and I start over, my next generation of stations and designs is better because of the lessons I learned building the previous generations.

Exactly. The lessons learned are the things to hang on to, and the only things that will continue to be of use, whereas the old saves are simply clutter, both mentally and physically.

Meh, to each their own.

[Superfluous J]

The lessons learned are the things to hang on to, and the only things that will continue to be of use, whereas the old saves are simply clutter, both mentally and physically.

While I agree with you in principle (and except my 0.21 save I've deleted all previous saves) it's not like they're cluttering up that much drive space. My KSP directory is 1.8 gig and I have about 100 times that free on a drive that is 300 times that size. If you just save the game saves, my YouTube series is 100 meg so I could keep hundreds of them with no real problems.

And whenever someone asks "what ship did you first land on Mun with?" I get a little sad that I not only can't remember, but I can't even check.

[Beachernaut]

The lessons learned are the things to hang on to, and the only things that will continue to be of use, whereas the old saves are simply clutter, both mentally and physically.

I agree. I generally start a new game fairly often. I usually end up deleting the older saves simply because I can't remember what I had in them and don't like clutter. However, most of my builds (bases, stations, ships) are at least a bit similar to previous builds, but with minor changes here and there.

And whenever someone asks "what ship did you first land on Mun with?" I get a little sad that I not only can't remember, but I can't even check.

Heheheh.... I can't remember the ship I did my first Mun landing with, but I can remember the experience. I don't know if I've ever played another game that gave me the same sense of accomplishment as KSP did with that first Mun landing. The stress of coming down for the 2nd/5th/20th/100th time trying to get the ship down in one peace. Trying to shed that last bit of lateral speed. I can't remember the ship, but I clearly remember the bundle of nerves that I was. I was so relieved and happy when I landed and cut the engine that I jumped up and hollered YEAH!!!! Scared the crap out of my dog.

[Hyomoto]

I just start a new game with each release, it's not like I need a reason to play KSP.

[little square dot]

While I agree with you in principle (and except my 0.21 save I've deleted all previous saves) it's not like they're cluttering up that much drive space. My KSP directory is 1.8 gig and I have about 100 times that free on a drive that is 300 times that size. If you just save the game saves, my YouTube series is 100 meg so I could keep hundreds of them with no real problems.

Yeah, I know. It's about the underlying principles for me though... the comment regarding the physical side of things was just intended as a garnish. =)

And whenever someone asks "what ship did you first land on Mun with?" I get a little sad that I not only can't remember, but I can't even check.

Aside from an involuntary pang of nostalgia, what is actually sad about that?

It really needn't be emotional at all, because nothing exists over which to become emotional. The lander no longer exists, the screenshots no longer exist, the save no longer exists, and even the memory no longer exists, so what is left to be sad about?

We only find such circumstances to be sad because the ego is itself-centric and can only think in terms of loss. As we perceive someone else to be enjoying their trip down memory lane, the knowledge that we do not meet the prerequisites for that particular enjoyment bothers the ego, so it nags at us with thoughts of "I ought to be able to remember", "I ought to have kept that file", "I ought to have taken screenshots", etc., etc., but the simple fact of the matter is that there is absolutely nothing to be sad about, and any such feelings stem strictly from the ego always wanting what it can't have in any particular moment.

[Firov]

We only find such circumstances to be sad because the ego is itself-centric and can only think in terms of loss. As we perceive someone else to be enjoying their trip down memory lane, the knowledge that we do not meet the prerequisites for that particular enjoyment bothers the ego, so it nags at us with thoughts of "I ought to be able to remember", "I ought to have kept that file", "I ought to have taken screenshots", etc., etc., but the simple fact of the matter is that there is absolutely nothing to be sad about, and any such feelings stem strictly from the ego always wanting what it can't have in any particular moment.

You must be a big hit at funerals...

Anyway, looking forward to .23, even if it is save breaking. The tweakables alone should be a game changer, and I can't wait to see what the modders do with them.