BSC Challenge: Rover + Skycrane - Yet another winner!

[Xeldrak]

Allright - the primary votes are (finally) done

You can see the results right here.

Now it's time for a final 48h vote!

Remember to check the Challenge Guidelines - it's not a beauty contest!

The vote is public - people will see for whom you voted.

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Allright, since the voter fraud is now just unbearable, I will restart the the vote.

I've restarted the vote. If you want to vote - PM me your email adress.

You will receive a mail with a personal link to the vote - dont worry, the vote will run till Sunday december 15th, since this process will obviously need more time.

I'm using condorcet-method vote - you will be asked to rank the entries. Don't worry, it's fairly simple - If you want to vote for a single entry, leave all entries on the lowest rank and move your prefered entry to rank one. The way you can also vote for any number of candidates. It sound a little wierd but it's a perfectly sound voting system - you can check the wiki page (And I've got a fairly professional page that offers this service).

On a sidenote:

1. I've removed bombo1's entry, because it violated the Guidelines.

2. I've added bizmar's entry, that he submitted in time but that I overlooked (so, it's not his fault). Please note that his .craft file has to be downloaded seperately at this point.

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Lets start the primary votes! I will once again use the dot-voting system. Since we have less entries this time, you will have four votes. Primary votes will run for three days - so you have more time for testing. Be so kind and do not vote for yourself - it's undignified and not objective.

I also encourage you to tell us for whom you've voted and why. These post are basically the best part of the challenge Also, you can tell me if you think the new voting system is an improvement.

The vote will close in three days.

Do not forget to read the Challenge Guidelines Mk.II - this is not about the most beautifull craft.

You can download all .craft files >>here<< in a single zip.

>>VOTE HERE<<

Results can be viewed here.

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Well, it's wednesday and besides Odin's day, it also BSC day!

It's been a while since the last BSC challenge, but since my so-called "real life" is starting to occupy a lot of my time. Anyways, I should be able to manage a new BSC, just dont expect me to update the challenge a soon a a deadline runs out. As usual, you will have four days to submit you entry - the voting period will last for at least 4 days. Maybe more if you guys send in too many entries.

Please check the BSC: Challenge Guidelines Mk.II - even if you just want to vote! This is where I've outsourced all the rules, legal stuff and design-goals.

How is this going to work?

You will have 96 hours to build you craft and post your entry here with at least one screenshot and its .craft file. Also be so kind to drop us a few lines, about your craft. What are your thoughts on the design? Why is it a good stock craft?

Once submissions are closed, I will post a poll where you can vote for your favourites. Depending on the number on entries, we will probably first hold primary election, followed final one. Anyways, I would like to encourage you to write a few lines why you voted you that craft, it keeps the thread fresh and we all have something to read while we wait for the votes.

What are we doing this time?

As you allready know, we are doing the Skycrane+Rover.

Now, to be honest, I think this is actually a rather good example of a Skycrane+Rover. But there is obviously room for improvement - have you ever tried to drive this thing on the "new" Mun? So, I suggest to design a manned or unmanned rover, that you can use to do some real roving. Aditionally you rover should be outfitted with some device that get's it from low orbit to the surface. I think beeing able to land on the Mun and Duna is a sensible design-goal.

For inspirational purposes, I'll leave you with this:

Other obvious sources of inspirations are the good ol' Apollo Lunar Rover, the Mars Opportunity Rover and the Russian Lunokhod (Ûуýþхþô) Rover.

Contenders

Andrew Hansen - NOKERB Exploring Machine

antbin - The One Way Ticket

Bizmar - The clippy torch

Bloody_looser - Test object Mk. XIV

bombo1 - Super Rover

briansun1 - RST XV-1V

Deathsoul097 - Sojurner

Kasuha - BSC Skycrane and Rover

leafty - RovoBot

Lions - Cube MK1

Liowen - Roller stock

pedorsf - RGC

Ravenchant - R-31 Dustmarcher & Heron skycrane

Rhomphaia - Dunakhod

SaplingPick - SkyBug Mk1

Spartwo - Endeavor

Speeding Mullet - Skycon Crumplezone

sploden - Kuriosity

Tarmenius - SCAR

UpsilonAerospace - Columba-A

Xeldrak - CRAATRV

XolotlLoki - Simple, Indestructible Rover

zekes - Lorrie

Edited December 15, 2013 by Xeldrak

[Spartwo]

What is the focus the rover or the delivery system?

[Xeldrak]

Both - a new player should be able to learn how to build a good rover and how to deploy it by your entry

[Rhomphaia]

Presenting the Dunakhod.

Built using stock Subassemblies,

Javascript is disabled. View full album

.craft file

Edited December 5, 2013 by Rhomphaia
Updated craft

[antbin]

At first I was tempted to ask for someome to do a tag-team entry - one person do the rover, the other the skycrane - but now that I've started rover building...

Edited December 4, 2013 by antbin

[Spartwo]

Now it's a question of which to use?http://i.imgur.com/EMDgSZx.png?1http://i.imgur.com/vzmkWWi.png?1http://i.imgur.com/DpI1I7a.png?1http://i.imgur.com/l4ZS3TX.png?1

[Liowen]

While I do not know 100% if this qualifies as a "skycrane" delivery system, it is basic enough for not only a new person to build, using no mods, but get to places and use on the surface. This was built in sandbox mode so the is no science things on, save the antenna on the front and dish in the rear, but those items could be added on to it as need. It also has two command chairs for Kerbals to sit if the rover is near enough to them to explore the surface a bit faster than walking. The payload system can be modified in many ways to suit where it will be deployed, currently this was setup for a Duna/Eve landing and why it has parachutes and less fuel. It has 2 generators mounted in the middle and a round battery under center, along with solar panels to keep the electronics powered. I consider this more than easy for a new person to not only use but build and modify as they see fit, but in comparison to some may seem overly simplistic by their standards. I am still fairly new to the game myself, but felt I would through this out there and see what others thought of its design. It is by no means the prettiest thing ever built, but it is functional and that is what counts in my eyes.

After landing on Duna

.craft file here

http://www./view/oor0igfiljr4t26/Roller%20stock.craft

Edited December 4, 2013 by Liowen

[antbin]

Hm, dilemmas, dilemmas.

On the one hand, a skycrane delivery system is best for an unmanned rover - it's a one-way trip!

On the other hand, if you're bombing around the Mun and your rover breaks a wheel, there better be a Kerbal nearby to fix it.

I can't decide.

What might tip the scale is how fast the rover can drive. The only wheels capable of 20 m/s are kinda big for an un-crewed rover.

But then should the Kerbals board in orbit, and get roasty toasty on the way down? Or do newbies have to land their skycrane within walking distance of their lander?

... oh, and there is a 70+ page Rover Megathread here for inspiration...

Edited December 4, 2013 by antbin

[bombo1]

Removed do to disqualification.

Edited December 10, 2013 by bombo1

[Lions]

Oki, here is the Cube MK1, did a test, all stages works fine, and landed nicely

How it works, 2 "heat shields" top and bottom used for re-entry and to protect the rover. I added the RCS on top so that the pod can maneuver away from all the debris from staging.

Stage 1

When the pod enters the atmosphere the parachute will deploy

Stage 2

The bottom shield will be staged off, only top shield will stay while the chute brakes the rover.

Stage 3

The top shield will be staged off and activate the rockets to safely land the rover.

Stage 4

The last stage will disconnect the rockets and fuel tanks and the rover will be free to roam.

I tried to keep this build as simple as possible, not to have too many equipment and parts attached, this will be the base and any thing else can be added if need be.

Thank you

http://www./view/mzkmt9k9d31kdpn/Cube%20MK1.craft

Edited December 5, 2013 by Lions

[HazelPine]

Whooho, I was waiting for this one! I got some ideas, but I'm not going to be able to make it until Friday. You can expect something Friday night! 😀

Deadline for uploading entries is on Sunday, if I'm right?

Edited December 4, 2013 by SaplingPick
I forgot a question

[Liowen]

Whooho, I was waiting for this one! I got some ideas, but I'm not going to be able to make it until Friday. You can expect something Friday night! 😀

Deadline for uploading entries is on Sunday, if I'm right?

From the way it is worded yes Sunday would be the deadline, unless there are a lot of entries.

[Liowen]

Sorry double post and not sure where the remove button is atm.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Liowen
double post

[Kasuha]

BSC Skycrane and Rover

Craft file

Skycrane

- 13 parts

- 4.99 t (incl. 4 t of fuel)

- two landing lights for night landing (not shown in the first album below)

- parachutes/drogues can be optionally appended for landing on bodies with atmosphere (not included; not necessary for Duna, see second album)

- one 2m attach point available for adding suitable decoupler or docking port or for attaching to any larger structure

- attach point is on root part, can be saved as subassembly

- strong enough to hover the rover on Kerbin, subsequently strong enough for any accessible planet except Eve

- not equipped with landing legs or landing construction, intent is usage as skycrane - brake low above land, decouple, fly away (basically standard landing, except for hitting Space to decouple instead of X to kill engines on touchdown)

- no probe core or control mechanism on skycrane itself; control authority provided by rover

- can deploy the rover from 50 km Mun orbit with fuel to spare (even when built into a lander, see album below)

- can deploy the rover from direct descent from interplanetary space on Duna without parachutes (see album below)

Examples of incorporating the Skycrane into Mun and Duna rover delivery landers are shown below.

Rover

- 26 parts

- 2.06 t

- four wheels

- nuclear power, ensures uninterrupted function at night

- four reflectors (two front, two rear)

- one satellite dish (sitting Kerbals do not clip through it); additional scientific equipment not included but can be attached

- capacity up to two Kerbals, remote control also available (probe core included)

- one ladder on each side for manual entry, useful on slopes where entry from one side might be problematic (it's also possible to enter seats directly from land)

- maximum speed over 20 m/s

- open, but all equipment and passengers are protected by structural panels; less energetic crashes (including turning upside down or tumbling on surface) cause no damage

- low center of mass, stable in turns (when torque is not counteracting; use docking mode for driving, or keys remapped to not collide with torque control)

- enough torque available to turn back in case of turning upside down

Edit1: added landing lights on Skycrane. Also tested it can deploy the rover on Mun from low orbit (50 km) without any help

Edit 2: tested deployment capabilities on Duna

Edit 3: added example of refurbishing the Skycrane into descent stage of a Mun lander

Edit 4: added example of refurbishing the Skycrane into Duna lander

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Javascript is disabled. View full album

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Javascript is disabled. View full album

Edited December 6, 2013 by Kasuha

[Rhomphaia]

Added Imgur gallery of a mun mission to my post.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[Deathsoul097]

Sojurner: The Patent-Pending Not-so-stable-but-still-fun-rover for extraplanetary exploration! Did I also mention completely built stock (Obviously) and with part clipping turned off! (Yes, I know some parts are clipped, but I wanted it to look good, not like a hedgehog of RTGs and equipment.)

VAB Description:

"A take on the old sojourner, but on it's own and a LOT bigger. (The real Sojourner was the size of a microwave oven) Comes with a drogue 'chute garunteed to slow you down on any planet with an atmosphere, a fake heatshield for a false sense of security, and a rocket powered skycrane, because it turns out that jets need oxygen!

*This is a very light rover, so be careful with the skycrane, and you dont need much to get where you want. (A poodle and an X200-8 will go to Jool)"

Images:

(Sorry for the dark pics)

.CRAFT:

http://www./view/bfs8qnvutoddm3o/BSC_%20Sojurner.craft

EDIT: Yes, the miss-spelling of sojourner is intended as the name.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Deathsoul097

[Xeldrak]

Ah, these are some very nice designs Well, you guys have been added.

Yes, the build-phase should run out at sunday.

[HazelPine]

Ok,Thanks. I only have time on friday and I really wanted to do this one. Good to know that I can do It on time, Xeldrak! I agree, there are some awesome entries already!!!

[Bizmar]

I took a poke at this but I think I failed at the basic part when I tried to make a Mars rover-like heat shield with stock parts, but here goes.

Craft file

Shield and Rover without lifter

Capable of landing a rover as a Sky crane as the challenge calls for.

Inspiration directly taken from Mars rover video in OP.

Rover can be manned or unmanned, just need to EVA to rover seat right outside cockpit. (cockpit not visible in pics except shield picture. It's the center)

Tested as crane (drop from short distance and have "crane" fly away) Kerbin, Mun, Minmus -- Duna to follow with more pics Edit2: works on Duna, but no fiery heat shield pics so not added

Tested as lander/return from Mun

Can unpack several ways depending on target:

Sky-crane drop

Parachute w/shield - drop the whole shield to surface and then lift out the rover, has enough snort to do this on Kerbin. Makes a nice floater/lander!

Regular parachute - drop the shield and use engines only if needed.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Edit: Thanks Xeldrak, had to wait until this morning to get forum approval to see the post. Holler if anything else seems off.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Bizmar
Duna Update

[Xeldrak]

@Bizmar: Well, why don't you spent some a few minutes editing your submission, so that it looks properly?

If you want to post a imgur-gallery, try [*IMGUR]fppcS[/imgUR] (without the *)

Also, what you probably want is

[*URL=http://www./view/7ft3lr6e798y17t/The%20Clippy%20Torch%202.craft]Craft file (without the * obviously)

and

[*URL=http://www./view/mqp9c7wa26sjdui/Torch%20Lander%20STOCK.craft]Shield and Rover (without...well, you should know the drill by now)

[antbin]

Two challenge mod-related questions:

1. Is the scope Rover + Skycrane + Deorbiting tug? So the craft should probably end with a decoupler or docking port? If so, can we agree to use HyperEdit to get the rover into orbit (for testing?) And/or should entrants post quicksaves of the rover in orbit?
   
2. Can we make up for the weaknesses of the existing SubAssembly system? SubAssemblies seem ideal for making the rover and the skycrane (and the orbital craft) in different pieces, for example the rover in the SPH, the skycrane in the VAB.
   However it's a little broken right now in that you must attach a subassembly by a high-in-the-tree part (i.e. something close to the main probe core). When we're building rovers, we don't often start with an orphaned probe core, then add a decoupler, then build the rover (with 2nd probe core) in order to make it subassembly-friendly.
   I'm sure the devs will fix this in a future version, but in the meantime, can we cheat and use SelectRoot to make our rover attachable by a top-mounted decoupler (rather than having to rework it with a 'dummy' probe core as the root part above the decoupler)?
   

Edited December 5, 2013 by antbin

[Spartwo]

I still can't decide.

[Xeldrak]

The craft should definitely end in a decoupler, docking port or a plain surface, that screams "attach decoupler here!". For testing HyperEdit is a sensible choice, I allready recommend it during the heavy lander challenge. I think posting quicksaves would be overdoing it, after als last time we had over 40 submissions.

Well, I'm fine with using the SelectRoot thing, if you could basically build the whole thing without it.

@Spartwo:

You can allways throw a dice...

Edited December 5, 2013 by Xeldrak

[Rhomphaia]

Ah, these are some very nice designs Well, you guys have been added.

Yes, the build-phase should run out at sunday.

Looks like you missed a couple of first page entries

Two challenge mod-related questions:

1. Is the scope Rover + Skycrane + Deorbiting tug? So the craft should probably end with a decoupler or docking port? If so, can we agree to use HyperEdit to get the rover into orbit (for testing?) And/or should entrants post quicksaves of the rover in orbit?
   
2. Can we make up for the weaknesses of the existing SubAssembly system? SubAssemblies seem ideal for making the rover and the skycrane (and the orbital craft) in different pieces, for example the rover in the SPH, the skycrane in the VAB.
   However it's a little broken right now in that you must attach a subassembly by a high-in-the-tree part (i.e. something close to the main probe core). When we're building rovers, we don't often start with an orphaned probe core, then add a decoupler, then build the rover (with 2nd probe core) in order to make it subassembly-friendly.
   I'm sure the devs will fix this in a future version, but in the meantime, can we cheat and use SelectRoot to make our rover attachable by a top-mounted decoupler (rather than having to rework it with a 'dummy' probe core as the root part above the decoupler)?
   

IIRC the use of hyperedit for testing was discussed earlier (in the super heavy lander challenge perhaps?) Pretty sure the consensus was that how you want to test is up to you. Some people may be considering how easy it is to build a launcher under these things as part of their testing. I personally don't think that enties should require a quicksave.

For the second question, my own personal opinion is that as long as the build could be reasonably easily replicated in a stock install, then using editor tools like SelectRoot or Subassembly manager should be OK.

For some reason I was under the impression that subassemblies were restricted to the editor that they were made in, which was why I built mine entirely in VAB, only just now realized I was wrong. Maybe I should update my entry to the SPH rover/VAB skycrane version

[antbin]

I'd like to veto Subassembly manager, since the stock Subassemblies are worth teaching newbies about (despite that the devs will probably fine tune them later).

After playing with the stock subassembly manager, I'm more comfortable without needing SelectRoot. It does save time, but it's not necessary. Just have to learn the work-around of starting with a probe core (I use stayput-nik), then decoupler, then building your rover from there on. When you want to make a subassmbly, just grab your rover by the decoupler and drop it in the Subassembly tab, leaving lonely stayput-nik as a reminder of the klunkiness.