0.23 Whats new?

[annallia]

Hmm if that is what srb plugs are that will make things interesting. Can already think of a few ways to improve my designs using variable thrust SRB's.

[Firov]

Solid boosters are large tubes filled with lumps of solid fuel (plugs), usually with a hollow core. Changing the shape of the core and altering the mix of fuel allows engineers to change the thrust curve of a solid booster, so, for instance, you can have a booster with a massive initial thrust that tapers off rapidly, then holds steady for a while before dying away completely, or your could have a booster that starts hard and then tapers of evenly, or any variation between them. It is even possible to have a booster that starts at high thrust, dies down, then builds up again for a bit! All this can be done by using well-chosen combinations of different plugs within the same booster.

3d mice can be very useful for RCS manoeuvres - in one device you have three axes of rotation and three axes of translation all proportional, rather than on/off.

I've never heard of those referred to as "plugs". Normally they're called fuel grains. Are you sure that's what they're talking about here?

[Psycix]

It would make sense as it would be a nice use for tweakables.

SRB's would become a lot more useful. Can't wait!

Does anyone know how long experimentals usually last until the patch gets released?

Edited December 8, 2013 by Psycix

[Whackjob]

It would make sense as it would be a nice use for tweakables.

SRB's would become a lot more useful. Can't wait!

Does anyone know how long experimentals usually last until the patch gets released?

Not specifically, but let's just say I'm expecting it before Christmas.

[FITorion]

It would make sense as it would be a nice use for tweakables.

SRB's would become a lot more useful. Can't wait!

Does anyone know how long experimentals usually last until the patch gets released?

Before .22 it was like 1 week to 2 weeks. .22 came out in about half a week.

I would not be surprised if .23 was out Monday or Tuesday.

I will not complain if it isn't however. I understand things can run longer than expected. With KerbalKON just days away I imagine they are somewhat distracted. I hope .23 comes out before but can understand if the festivities get a little in the way of that.

[spikeyhat09]

~snip

How does this relate to the thread topic of "New Features in 0.23"?

[kiwiak]

Solid boosters are large tubes filled with lumps of solid fuel (plugs), usually with a hollow core. Changing the shape of the core and altering the mix of fuel allows engineers to change the thrust curve of a solid booster, so, for instance, you can have a booster with a massive initial thrust that tapers off rapidly, then holds steady for a while before dying away completely, or your could have a booster that starts hard and then tapers of evenly, or any variation between them. It is even possible to have a booster that starts at high thrust, dies down, then builds up again for a bit! All this can be done by using well-chosen combinations of different plugs within the same booster.

3d mice can be very useful for RCS manoeuvres - in one device you have three axes of rotation and three axes of translation all proportional, rather than on/off.

So, bassicly, as we can controll thrust aoutpu with throttle, solid boosters will be programmable before launch.

[Comrade Jenkens]

0.23 has got to experimentals incredibly fast so I don't understand what all the fuss is about! And though from the sounds of it not much in the way of new content is being added, the optimisation and tweakables will be able to form a base that will allow many new things to be added more easily further down the line.

[annallia]

Before .22 it was like 1 week to 2 weeks. .22 came out in about half a week.

I would not be surprised if .23 was out Monday or Tuesday.

I will not complain if it isn't however. I understand things can run longer than expected. With KerbalKON just days away I imagine they are somewhat distracted. I hope .23 comes out before but can understand if the festivities get a little in the way of that.

I just hope it comes out early enough before christmas that the few mods I am dead set on using are updated to work with it so I can hide from my family on the mun

[Guest Brody_Peffley]

"If you don't like it go make your own" is such a bad argument. Don't like the economy? go make your own. Don't like the government? Go make your own, Don't like child slavery? go make your own work laws. It doesn't work that way, my friend.

And no, I'm not trolling. I'm a person that thinks differently, and I think things can be better. How can someone who things something can be better be trolling?

Yeah, because we've known each other since I got my programming degree. Such times at our college right, man?

They have their reasons, for sure, but that doesn't mean the dev cycle is the correct one for a game in alpha nor does it mean that they should say "0.23 is a quick patch" when it takes only one week less than the previous "major" update. Those are the 2 main things I'm complaining about. The lack of communication and transparency on the development process and the plain stupid dev cycles they use.

These people have kids and family to tend. You wouldn't want to be spending 24/7 and not spend your time with your family?

[Liowen]

These people have kids and family to tend. You wouldn't want to be spending 24/7 and not spend your time with your family?

Careful you are posting this in a game forum, this may already be the case

However I agree I hope they have fun with their families, it gives them a chance to recharge their brains to make things legen.....wait for it......DARY!

[Kerbart]

And no, I'm not trolling. I'm a person that thinks differently, and I think things can be better. How can someone who thinks something can be better be trolling?

In American slang it's refered to as “Monday Morning Coaches†because, with 20/20 hindsight, they can pinpoint so accurately how, given the outcome, the game should have been coached. Trolling is when you're just yelling “things can be better†without saying how they can be better. Until you give a detailed resource analysis, and how coding hours should have been spent to come quicker to the same results, or get better results in the same timeslot, it is not unlikely that such unproven “I can do better†claims are considered trolling. And my mother taught me not to tell others “you can do better than that†unless you have the proven authority (for instance, but not limited to, by showing it yourself) to do so.

Yeah, because we've known each other since I got my programming degree. Such times at our college right, man?

I’ve seen people with MBA’s who cannot calculate with percentages. I’ve seen people with a marketing degree who know nothing about “knowing your customer.†Similarly, I've seen some bad-ass coding (elegant, concise, clear, well documented) by people who didn’t go to college at all. Basically “I have a degree in x†doesn’t really mean that much unless backed up by some experience. What would impress me is “I've lead a team of game developers and we’ve consistently delivering products on time, within budget, and meeting all requested requirements.†Now that I would consider as “I know what I’m talking about,†and if that applies I will apologize. Although I’ll wonder why you didn’t bring that up in the first place.

They have their reasons, for sure, but that doesn't mean the dev cycle is the correct one for a game in alpha nor does it mean that they should say "0.23 is a quick patch" when it takes only one week less than the previous "major" update. Those are the 2 main things I'm complaining about. The lack of communication and transparency on the development process and the plain stupid dev cycles they use.

Alpha, Beta, RC and Gold apply to classic software development and that's not what KSP is. I bet you’d be the first to protest if 0.23 was a "stabilization release" with no new features at all, just bug fixes and nothing else. Here's my suggestion: if you want to stick to classic development routines, why not simply wait until the game comes out of alpha stage? That way you have nothing to complain about. Granted, that might take a year or two or longer, but in the mean time you don’t have to agonize over the inability of a small team to deliver something that will rival much larger companies who routinely take three years or more to bring their 1.0 product to market. Sure, you'll miss out on the ability to provide feedback to the developers and see how the game is developing, but it will be much more like the classic software development you expect them to do.

Is Squad development perfect? Of course not. But they have many things to manage, and many requests to fulfill. Experienced users don't want "ease into learning the game" science, new players don't understand what the charm of "n-body physics that will require daily station keeping (in game time)" is. Whatever the new version will bring, players will complain that there's not enough new features, that there is too many new features (fix bug) or the wrong new features. Obviously you cannot please everyone. And it seems you're one of them. Good luck with agonizing; I'll go back to simply enjoying the game.

[techonce]

Normally it's a week or 2 for release from experimentals, but that is if things go well.

I'm betting .23 will be released at the conclusion of Kerbalcon.

Also I'm looking at tweekables as being a major improvement. Maybe not huge coding wise, but gonna be fun.

Also I don't care that English is not a persons fist language. Rude is rude.

[minerman30]

"EVA uses monopropellant instead of it's own infinite resource."

Dag nabbit!

Edited December 10, 2013 by Vanamonde
Please don't use asterisks to get around the profanity filter.

[Hodo]

TL;DR;DC

Never fail there is always one who comes into a game forum no matter the game and either complains about the devs taking to long or they don't take enough time.

You know in the U.S. of A there was a saying back in my youth. "Have a Coke and smile and STFU"

[Scotius]

"EVA uses monopropellant instead of it's own infinite resource."

Crikey!.

Relax. One small, radial mono tank and your Kerbals are set. Considering the sizes and weights, i doubt EVA will consume more than 10 units of monopropellant per trip.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Vanamonde

[FlamedSteak]

The question is how much monopropellant is required to fill an EVA pack?

EDIT: Dang^ you answered that before I could pose the question.

[FITorion]

Relax. One small, radial mono tank and your Kerbals are set. Considering the sizes and weights, i doubt EVA will consume more than 10 units of monopropellant per trip.

and besides each capsule will now include a small amount of monoprop. It will definitely be enough for one eva... But I wonder if it'll be enough for more or if it'll only be enough to fill the kerbals jetpack once.

[KerbMav]

MMUs and SAFERs use Nitrogen as fuel - so the RSC monopropellant seems to be a misnomer?

Because one thing I learned from Europa Report - and follow up research on wikipedia - is that you do not want your suit to come into contact with hydarzin if you plan on reentering the vessel (and take off your helmet).

[rakutenshi]

I was readinging a paper on the Columbia [1], and it seems the shuttle doesn't use a monopropellant RCS system. It has N2 and He tanks in the OMS pods but those seem to be strictly limited to maintaining pressure in the LF/O tanks (removing the need for turbopumps), From the brief:

"The OMS engines use monomethyl hydrazine as fuel and nitrogen tetroxide as oxidizer. The propellants are hypergolic."

Some of the Monoprop RCS stuff is described as hypergolic... but .. mono can't be hypergolic as that's a feature of highly reactive binary propellants. .

KerbMav makes me want the option of equipping the Kerbals with MMU... or I guess it'd be KKUs (Kerballed Kerballing Units) either by a tweakable in the pod or possibly by adding some sort of "enhanced EVA" storage part to the stack. (maybe with that part, there'd be a third button on the character view in the lower right, "EVA, IVA, MMU"...

sidenote: @FlamedSteak- about 24-25 deltaV in an MMU, standard KSP Spacesuit? ... maybe 10dV worth. since the MMU contains just under 12kg of N2, could figure maybe 5-6kg of monopropellant should do the trick.. just guessing here, though (Note: I have been known to be completely full of BS, fair warning)

Oh and because I simply can't resist (yes, I'm a bad person).. Developer Asymptotes does not mean the first release is fastest, it means the first release typically provides the greatest amount of new content, with subsequent releases typically suffering from a sort of pseudo diminishing returns.

My personal "looks forward to most" game feature is going to be when they add Budgeting/Mission completion to career mode. Then it's so on.

/ramble.

Edited December 9, 2013 by rakutenshi

[Gemberkoekje]

I am a programmer, albeit not for KSP (unfortunately )

Looking at the feature list:

EVA Monopropellant: Small change

Tweakables: Huge change. Infinitely expandable too, what would you like to tweak to which values?

Steerable Small Gear Bay: Not a big change, but bug-prone

Science Archive: Small change - assuming everything is saved already, this is just GUI - mostly to keep artists busy.

Orbital Science Lab: 3D model, Small change for programmers, dependent on what exactly an orbital science lab does.

Transmission logic: Calculations. Should be a small change.

Reset logic: Calculations. Should be a small change.

3D Mouse Support: I'm sure Laika the Space Dog will love this.

And that doesn't include any and all bugs which should be solved, because they weren't in this list.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Gemberkoekje

[Bobbydylan]

TBH, 100 hours into KSP, it's pretty stable. I like that.

[Skyrunner27]

"If you don't like it go make your own" is such a bad argument. Don't like the economy? go make your own. Don't like the government? Go make your own, Don't like child slavery? go make your own work laws. It doesn't work that way, my friend.

Why, it worked for America, India, and a lot of African nations. and those require others to like your idea. A game only takes one person. Therefore, your argument is invalid. It is comparable to saying that you shouldn't make your own food if you don't like fast food, or saying you are thirsty so you should not make yourself a drink.

[kiwiak]

So, kerbals will have to go back to capsule to replenish their monopropellant?

I think they should be able to do this during eva to, just get close to tank, and click replenish.

Also, only one day left? I hope so.

[epicbuilder333]

I've got a gut-feeling that the second Gas Giant will be added before the start of 2014. Possible like the update that added Eeloo lat year.