Have IVA environments reflect local acceleration

[tntristan12]

So all this discussion about transferring crew and IVA improvements has got me thinking: I know we'd all like to see the collision system reworked so that Kerbals can walk on the inside edge of an AG ring, but I was thinking of something more general that would improve the immersiveness of IVA, and that's having these environments reflect local acceleration. For example, let's say I have a crew capsule and I it's sitting on the launch pad. You'd expect everything inside to be pressed to the bottom of the cylinder as you see now. What if I turn it on its side? Wouldn't it be funny if the Kerbals strapped into their seats had their massive kerbal heads tilted down the gravitational incline? Now, what if I launch it into space? It'd be cool to have things floating around, and maybe the Kerbals are jiggling around in their seats as they move (indicating that the straps are the only things holding them down). Finally, what if I attach that module to the edge of an AG ring and spin it? It'd be nice if it looked on the inside like the module was sitting down back on Kerbin!

I'm sure the implementation of this would be trickier than I am making it sound, but stuff like that is what will really sell the fact that you're in space. It'd also make the player more cognizant of how they are orienting these modules in the VAB, since now you can visibly tell the difference between placing a lander can upside down or not from the inside of the pod. You would clearly be able to see the discomfort in your Kerbals, but it would not prevent them from doing it anyway, if they were so cruelly inclined.

Edited December 16, 2013 by tntristan12

[Themohawkninja]

It would be interesting to find out how applicable Unity physics are to the IVAs. I would presume that it wouldn't be terribly difficult, but I don't know for sure.

[tntristan12]

I'm not even sure you'd really need to apply physics if it's something that can be faked convincingly.

[LethalDose]

There are very few times where I apply this phrase, but in this case, it's applicable:

"You're doing it wrong"

... if you have stuff floating around a spacecraft cabin during any kind of maneuver.

Period.

Overall, there's a LOT of work done on spacecraft to have ways to attach everything to a surface to prevent stuff just floating around.

In Zero-G, just orbiting without maneuvers, okay, I could see adding some animations in the Hitchhiker for snacks floating in the cabin. As far as I know, you can't maneuver from the hitchhiker, so acceleration while in a hitchhiker should never change, unless you were de-orbiting, and again, if you had stuff floating free expecting to de-orbit, you're doing it wrong.

Besides, I think this probably falls under "Enhanced IVA", which I believe is on the "Do not suggest" list.

Edited December 16, 2013 by LethalDose
Mentioned IVA & Do-not-suggesst

[Themohawkninja]

There are very few times where I apply this phrase, but in this case, it's applicable:

"You're doing it wrong"

... if you have stuff floating around a spacecraft cabin during any kind of maneuver.

Period.

Overall, there's a LOT of work done on spacecraft to have ways to attach everything to a surface to prevent stuff just floating around.

In Zero-G, just orbiting without maneuvers, okay, I could see adding some animations in the Hitchhiker for snacks floating in the cabin. As far as I know, you can't maneuver from the hitchhiker, so acceleration while in a hitchhiker should never change, unless you were de-orbiting, and again, if you had stuff floating free expecting to de-orbit, you're doing it wrong.

Besides, I think this probably falls under "Enhanced IVA", which I believe is on the "Do not suggest" list.

Enhanced IVAs had to do with controlling your Kerbal in IVA. This is just physics related.

[tntristan12]

There are very few times where I apply this phrase, but in this case, it's applicable:

"You're doing it wrong"

... if you have stuff floating around a spacecraft cabin during any kind of maneuver.

Period.

Overall, there's a LOT of work done on spacecraft to have ways to attach everything to a surface to prevent stuff just floating around.

In Zero-G, just orbiting without maneuvers, okay, I could see adding some animations in the Hitchhiker for snacks floating in the cabin. As far as I know, you can't maneuver from the hitchhiker, so acceleration while in a hitchhiker should never change, unless you were de-orbiting, and again, if you had stuff floating free expecting to de-orbit, you're doing it wrong.

Besides, I think this probably falls under "Enhanced IVA", which I believe is on the "Do not suggest" list.

Yes but things that apply in real life don't often apply to Kerbals just for the sake that it makes them more entertaining to watch. Obviously a real life astronaut would be able to keep his cool during a space mission, yet most of the time Kerbals are seen screaming their little lungs out because the ride is just too scary for them. Another example: A while back NovaSilisko alluded to the fact that you'd be able to take the helmets off of Kerbals anywhere in the solar system, including on airless worlds. Would a real life astronaut do that? I'd certainly hope not, but you have to admit that the mental image of a Kerbal holding his breath on the Mun is pretty freaking hilarious. So just because you said that I gotta ask... "Why so serious!?"

Anyway, perhaps this does count as an enhanced IVA feature, but that doesn't mean we can't discuss its feasibility. I've developed games myself and I've never been afraid of a little redundant input. Besides, the "Enhanced IVA" I feel falls under the purview of "more IVA interiors" or "being able to walk around in IVA." What I'm suggesting is a visual effect that would provide some amusement to the game. Again, I must ask... "Why so serious!?"

EDIT: Also, how on Earth aren't you "doing it wrong" if you place a damn lander can upside down so you can get a better view? O.o

[S4qFBxkFFg]

This is why we need female kerbals - so we can use the way their hair hangs to determine the acceleration/gravity vector.

[tntristan12]

This is why we need female kerbals - so we can use the way their hair hangs to determine the acceleration/gravity vector.

HA! I could totally picture this.

[Themohawkninja]

This is why we need female kerbals - so we can use the way their hair hangs to determine the acceleration/gravity vector.

Except that it's in first person and you have a helmet on, so you couldn't really see where you hair is.

[tntristan12]

Except that it's in first person and you have a helmet on, so you couldn't really see where you hair is.

He's talking about the Hitchhiker Storage Unit. Kerbals in there don't wear helmets, and they're arranged in a circle so one can easily see the other three. Also I'm pretty sure he's half-joking but the point still stands!

[Themohawkninja]

He's talking about the Hitchhiker Storage Unit. Kerbals in there don't wear helmets, and they're arranged in a circle so one can easily see the other three. Also I'm pretty sure he's half-joking but the point still stands!

Eh, I suppose, but that means programming more physics into an already physics-heavy game.

[tntristan12]

"It's too much effort" is generally a poor reason to avoid adding features that enhance player immersion. I feel the hair thing (doesn't have to be hair, could be anything that's hanging really) could be faked in a way similar to how the capsule hangs from beneath a parachute. I'm not basing this off anything other than my own assumptions, but I don't think that'd be too physics heavy. And it's something you'd only need to do when in IVA mode.

[kiwiak]

In real life, during Soyuz launches, toy hangs from "ceiling" of capsule - its primitive way to determinate if forces are acting on spaceship.

It woudl be fun to have something like that too.

[Themohawkninja]

"It's too much effort" is generally a poor reason to avoid adding features that enhance player immersion. I feel the hair thing (doesn't have to be hair, could be anything that's hanging really) could be faked in a way similar to how the capsule hangs from beneath a parachute. I'm not basing this off anything other than my own assumptions, but I don't think that'd be too physics heavy. And it's something you'd only need to do when in IVA mode.

Too much effort to code isn't a good excuse, but too much effort on your computer is.

Why do you think orbits in KSP aren't n-body calculated?

Plus, this whole way of looking at acceleration vector implementation isn't even supposed to be discussed, since female Kerbals are on the 'do not suggest' list.

[Themohawkninja]

In real life, during Soyuz launches, toy hangs from "ceiling" of capsule - its primitive way to determinate if forces are acting on spaceship.

It woudl be fun to have something like that too.

Make it fuzzy dice, and I want it in my spacecraft.

Fuzzy space die for the win.

[tntristan12]

Too much effort to code isn't a good excuse, but too much effort on your computer is.

Why do you think orbits in KSP aren't n-body calculated?

Plus, this whole way of looking at acceleration vector implementation isn't even supposed to be discussed, since female Kerbals are on the 'do not suggest' list.

orbits in KSP aren't n-body calculated because it is literally impossible to analytically determine the position of a spacecraft at an arbitrary time in the future and thus implement time warp. If time warp weren't a consideration (correction: if *stable* time warp weren't a consideration - orbiter has time warp but it's hardly stable), then you could indeed have n-body calculated orbits without that significant an impact on performance. And in any case, I'm not talking about n-body calculations. I'm talking about ragdoll physics, which is something Unity is a lot more adapted for being primarily a FPS engine.

Also, I thought Squad recently reversed its decision about female kerbals.

In real life, during Soyuz launches, toy hangs from "ceiling" of capsule - its primitive way to determinate if forces are acting on spaceship.

It woudl be fun to have something like that too.

Make it fuzzy dice, and I want it in my spacecraft.

Fuzzy space die for the win.

Yes. This!

Edited December 16, 2013 by tntristan12

[S4qFBxkFFg]

Yeah - it wasn't a serious suggestion, even though I think it would be a good idea for other reasons. I like fuzzy dice, or an air freshener though...

[Themohawkninja]

orbits in KSP aren't n-body calculated because it is literally impossible to analytically determine the position of a spacecraft at an arbitrary time in the future and thus implement time warp. If time warp weren't a consideration (correction: if *stable* time warp weren't a consideration - orbiter has time warp but it's hardly stable), then you could indeed have n-body calculated orbits without that significant an impact on performance. And in any case, I'm not talking about n-body calculations. I'm talking about ragdoll physics, which is something Unity is a lot more adapted for being primarily a FPS engine.

Understandable, but more physics is still more physics. It isn't a terrible idea, but this way of doing it would also give that gender an advantage, and I don't even want to think of the outrage that would occur because Squad made one gender more advantageous than the other.

Also, I thought Squad recently reversed its decision about female kerbals.

Well, they recently changed their views on two things already, so who knows.

[tntristan12]

Understandable, but more physics is still more physics. It isn't a terrible idea, but this way of doing it would also give that gender an advantage, and I don't even want to think of the outrage that would occur because Squad made one gender more advantageous than the other.

LOL! I think anybody who goes nuts over that is missing the point of gender equality. Yeah, perhaps female kerbals' hair isn't the best example... But I think you get the point well enough. Fuzzy dice or an air freshener would certainly sell the illusion!

[HarvesteR]

I've thought about this feature too. It sounds like it would be a lot of fun to code, basically taking the g-force vector from vessels and transforming it into IVA coordinate space to be applied onto loose objects floating around.

The main issue though, is that there are many many other features that out-prioritize a purely for-kicks one like this that need to get added first. Not to mention that such a purely aesthetical feature needs to be disableable through settings to not eat up CPU time for low-spec computers.

Would be fun though, can't disagree there.

Cheers

[lajoswinkler]

Something like this.

Besides Kerbals talking, arguing and sometimes going nuts in IVA, which is something I really want to happen, their bodies being affected by the acceleration would be a great thing to consider.

[tntristan12]

I've thought about this feature too. It sounds like it would be a lot of fun to code, basically taking the g-force vector from vessels and transforming it into IVA coordinate space to be applied onto loose objects floating around.

The main issue though, is that there are many many other features that out-prioritize a purely for-kicks one like this that need to get added first. Not to mention that such a purely aesthetical feature needs to be disableable through settings to not eat up CPU time for low-spec computers.

Would be fun though, can't disagree there.

Cheers

Oh hey! Thanks for the metaphorical upvote, Harv.

Yeah, maybe if you guys get bored of adding massive new features into the game you can devote an update entirely to little aesthetic and nitpicky stuff like this.

[Helix935]

if you want some help with making something that can indicate acceleration and float in zero G, you may want to talk to Frizzank as a start for he has a floating sandwich in his IVA for big G

[regex]

Find one in every car. You'll see...

And yes, that would be awesome.