Is the processing lab actually any use at all!?

[Atoning Unifex]

So I've clawed my way through the early research in 0.23 and just got the Processing Lab. I've tested it out in space around Kerbin and it honestly seems pretty pointless - unless I'm missing something.

All it seems to do is add like 10% extra transmission value to an experiment, still rendering that experiment used up. So I've put extra effort into hulking this great lump into space, crewing it and all I get back is 10% transmission per experiment!? I don't see the point. I can create a craft of around the same size that I can actually return to Kerbin, getting significantly better benefits from science.

What's more, if I have to crew the lab in the first place, then presumably I have to return that crew to Kerbin at some point, so why not just return the data to Kerbin at the same time....

I actually expected the lab to allow us to gather 100% of research without having transmission losses, or possibly to gain extra science from attached experiments (not just a transmission 'bonus'), in any case 10% extra is thoroughly underwhelming.

What do you think? Am I missing something obvious?

[Pursuedtank]

For one thing, it means that you can clean the experiments, enabling their reuse. I haven't been able to play with it that much but it will probably see the most use on space stations.

[Atoning Unifex]

Hmmm, I'll take a look tomorrow but it appeared (through my admittedly tired bleary eyes) that the experiments I attached to the test craft were going to be rendered useless if I chose to transmit the data...

[Pursuedtank]

I believe you transmit the data, they are then rendered useless until you right click them while they are attached to the same ship as a lab. (through docking or normally) after this you are free to right click and then click clean experiment and you should be able to use it again.

[Stargate525]

I *think* the idea is that you attach these to your interplanetary CMs. For Mun and Minmus, it's really not that big of a deal, but I can see how if you're going to any of the mooned systems, especially Jool, the weight reduction not having to haul out six or seven canisters and bays makes the lab worth it.

Though... I don't know why you'd be going to other planets that early in your career. I personally would have put it back a little, especially since you can't do experiments with it directly.

[hawkwing]

Have to agree. It just feels like there's no point to them if they don't actually give 100% return value. If this means they have to weigh more or use more power to fit someone's idea of balance, fine. But if they don't give full value, I'll just never end up using them.

[Stargate525]

Use it to clean the modules. You can take the info outta them and stuff them into your return capsule. n.n

[I_Killed_Jeb]

Hopefully cooler stuff is coming for the lab down the line

[Commander Zoom]

For what it's worth, without actually looking at the files, I imagine you could probably dig into the part.cfg to have it give you a bigger bonus. Not a perfect fix, but...

[allmhuran]

Yes, I believe the OP makes some excellent points.

We had some issues with the science system and it's good that squad are trying to fix the grinding, make space stations useful, and so on. But right now those fixes are a bit duct-tapey, they don't really make sense from an overall gameplay and design point of view.

[Minarkhaios]

I've read somewhere that the lab can be used to store experiments.

It did not have time to test it yet (an evil thing called 'work') but if it is the case, then the lab is more a huge return container than a transmitter bonus.

But I did have time to test that two stacked labs do not add more bonus to transmission, and that's sad.

If we were able to stack bonus transmission (one per lab) then huge station will have a major role.

Imagine a 6 lab station around Jool. With small vessel to gather experiment from around the system and bring them back to the station. That is epic !

[Stargate525]

I've read somewhere that the lab can be used to store experiments.

Any capsule does this now. Heck, even Kerbals can be your return capsule.

[ThirdHorseman]

I plan on using it to reset Material Labs and Goo Containers for my Minmus SCIENCE! mining ship. The main body of the ship, with a lab module, sits in orbit around Minmus and I'll have a lander with Material Bay, Goo, and all the other various science items. The lander drops into a biome and I do the full range of experiments, then launch back up and dock with the orbiter. My kerbal removes all the SCIENCE! from the equipment, stores it in the capsule, and then I use the lab to reset the Material Bay and Goo (the only ones that need to be reset, as far as I can tell). Then the lander drops onto another biome, rinse and repeat.

My only concern is if there is a limit to how many experiments a lander can store. The most I've had is 8 at once, so I'm not sure if there is any limit. If not then this should work great and is a perfect use for the lab module, otherwise I'd have to carry one Material Bay and Goo for every biome.

[HarvesteR]

My only concern is if there is a limit to how many experiments a lander can store. The most I've had is 8 at once, so I'm not sure if there is any limit. If not then this should work great and is a perfect use for the lab module, otherwise I'd have to carry one Material Bay and Goo for every biome.

There's no limit to how many samples you can store, as long as they're not repeats of an already stored subject.

And yes, that's one of the best ways to use the Labs, as a science 'base' to return to after sending out expeditions.

Cheers

[ThirdHorseman]

There's no limit to how many samples you can store, as long as they're not repeats of an already stored subject.

Sweet! Thanks!

[Stargate525]

There's no limit to how many samples you can store, as long as they're not repeats of an already stored subject.

Which still gives us zero incentive to use multi-man landers. Can I seuggest that you scale either the maximum number of samples based on capsule size, or allow a capsule to store a number of duplicates equal to its capacity?

[Atoning Unifex]

There's no limit to how many samples you can store, as long as they're not repeats of an already stored subject.

Well this sounds a lot better than I had originally imagined. So rather than using this as a booster to my transmissions I can use it as a collection point for all experiments before returning to Kerbin, although someone earlier suggested any pod can do this, so a smaller one would do just as well?

This still doesn't fully address the situation though. I can only pick up 'one' rock from a biome, therefore never being able to get to 100% research with a single trip. If 'm going to spend significant effort getting to a place I'm going to make sure I can bring back everything I can, not just one rock!

[Atoning Unifex]

Actually it occurs to me that the current research set up, which encourages more than one visit to a biome, actually exacerbates the potential research grinding problem.

I visit a biome to grab a number of experimental data, return to kerbin, unlock a new scientific measurement device, return to the same biome, repeat the experiments to get to 100% for the first lot and partial for the new device, return, get another new device and have to repeat the same thing again to get the benefits, repeat for each new device. And this IS worth doing because the scientific value return off the later device is understandably higher.

So we find ourselves grinding existing locations over and over to get new benefit, and it just becomes a dull task

[mic_e]

Example: Land the lab on the mun, together with a lightweight rover.

Rove into adjacent biomes, conduct experiments, return to lab. Repeat.

Not only an awesome use for the science lab, but also for roving!

[UberFuber]

Example: Land the lab on the mun, together with a lightweight rover.

Rove into adjacent biomes, conduct experiments, return to lab. Repeat.

Not only an awesome use for the science lab, but also for roving!

I would've just make the entire lab mobile.

[Themohawkninja]

Why doesn't it give full science for a transmitted data? To me, it would make a whole lot of sense to have the lab act like a portable KSC in the sense that you can transmit your findings at 100% science value. This would be explained as the Kerbals doing all of the analyzing that they would normally do back on Kerbin in the lab. You then make it take longer to transmit (since you are transmitting the whole analysis, and not just the raw data), and voila, a permanent science outpost!

[ss8913]

I'd think that building and crewing a space station should give you some *ongoing* science gains... like X science points per game-hour played per space station that meets certain criteria. That would more accurately simulate what we use real space stations for. Perhaps you'd get diminishing returns unless you sent regular flights up there to restock/resupply the crew.. something along those lines.

Also we need an interior view for the lab.. i was hoping to see an IVA view for it so I could look around at all the Kerbal science apparatuses..

[Azoth]

I tried what Commander Zoom suggested, and looking at the CFG files for the lab there is an option for data transmission rate. Open up the KSP folders, go into GameData, then into Squad, Parts, and finally science. You should see Large Crewed Lab there and simply open up it's .CFG file and scroll down until you see" dataTransmissionBoost = 1.5 " which is the default. I may experiment with how much changing it affects gameplay, but otherwise, it's an easy way to make these behemoths worth lugging on a mission.

[ArmchairGravy]

Science labs act as a collection and refinery hub for science, making science the equivalent of Kethane (find, extract, refine, and return). The only issue is that it should also add a bonus to processed returned items so there is an incentive to use it. I would recommend doubling the transmission bonus to 30%, and adding 15% to returns. This way players would want to use it, and use it as early in the game as it appears in the tech tree.

[ArmchairGravy]

A further note: I've been using the science lab to transmit, and just got done trying to use it as a collection point. It fails miserably at this. Even though it processed my material lab and goo containers from my docked lander, it did not store the samples. The only way to get science from these items is to either transmit them from the lab and take the hit on science points (which the lab marginally alleviates), or to skip the science lab and just return them.

I am going to have to answer the OP's question NO. In its current state, the science lab is not of much use.

The science lab would be of use if:

-- all processed experiments are automatically stored on the lab, which then resets the experiments

--the processed results can be transferred to another vessel and thus returned for full points

Until this happens, the science lab fails as a collection point for returns.

Ideally, transmitted experiments would get a bump in %, and processed returns garner additional points.

As it stands now, especially in Kerbin SOI, you're better off with straight returns. The only time I can see myself using the current science lab is on a Jool expedition, and leaving two Kerbin stranded there.

Sure, I could stick some experiments onto the lab and return the whole thing back to Kerbin, but why bother when I already have lighter and less top-heavy ships doing the job?

Sorry to go on about this, but Squad missed the mark on something that could have been truly awesome.