Whats the point of using the mobile processing lab?

[stevism]

i take it back.

since posting on here i have had manned mobile labs in orbit for both mun and minmus, with one lander and one return ship.

as i now see others are doing as well with the mpl, i just send a ship down, do my science, return and dock to the orbiting station, put all my science in the return craft, clean the experiments, refuel, and set out to hit some more biomes.

it feels a lot more realistic to me this way, although i still do NOT see the point of "processing" the samples and sending them back.

ymmv

[Rickenbacker]

I always assumed that you could process, take the data and fly it back... But if you can't, I really see no reason to use a science lab at all in its current state.

[Murph]

I always assumed that you could process, take the data and fly it back... But if you can't, I really see no reason to use a science lab at all in its current state.

Processing only gives a benefit for transmission, none for returning. The major reason for using it if you're not transmitting is the ability to clean the materials lab and goo canisters for re-use. When more planets and moons have biomes in the future, the ability to reset science probes will become more valuable. It's pretty much 50/50 whether it's better to use an orbital science station for Mun and Minimus, rather than just launching new probes from KSC, because it's so easy (and currently "free") to get there from Kerbin. When costs are introduced, and biomes on more distant bodies, the lab's value should increase.

[Smidge204]

yeah, but mobile lab rovers can't hit *that* many biomes, unless you land in a few sweet spots. i think it's more efficient to build a ship that can bunny-hop amongst biomes and then send a small apollo-style return vehicle, but that's just my play style.

I drove my science lab from the farside crater to the northern polar biome in about 6 real hours, collecting science the whole way. The main point is you are able to reuse the goo container and material bay more than once, and those two experiments yield much more science than any of the other instruments.

Drive, activate assigned action group to run all experiments (Goo, Materials bay, temperature, seismic, gravioli), if we're in a new biome and the data is worth keeping, EVA a Kerbal to collect the data from the experiments and do an EVA report/surface sample, get back into the lab module (depositing science) and clean the experiments as you drive off again.

The value of the lab will only increase as more biomes are added to the game. Even as it is, it adds a lot of flavor and options for game play and is totally worth it IMHO.

=Smidge=

[Kahitar]

Question: Isn't it worth to go to one biome with the mpl, do all experiments, transmit them and do the same experiments in the same biome again to take them back home?

[celem]

It certainly adds more depth to the game, and of course gives us a cool looking module to slap onto space stations. But as it stands just now thats all i've used them for, as a cosmetic part. I do see some real promise with this mechanic though.

I did experiment with a Munar mission as folks are describing, orbit the lab and do a repeat lander style mission with part cleaning on each rendezvous. I didnt transmit any of that data though, since (again, as mentioned) most of us like to bring kerbals home, and I see no point in transmitting anything from a ship that is returning anyway. Lots of fun, but time-consuming with all that docking.

The mass is an issue for me too. I can generally come up with a solution whereby the lander has, say, 4 material bays and 4 goo pods, all radially mounted and jettisonable, with that whole sci kit still weighing in below 3t. The tradeoff here is that I need to carry enough fuel for multiple biome hops. It all has to be on the lander (rather than staying in orbit with the lab for refuels), though the fuel needed for sub-orbital hops is remarkably less than needed for multiple landing/ascents/rendezvous. Even in the theoretical situation where Eeloo has 10 biomes, i'd send a multi-hop lander before a lab, collect science on eva's at each landing spot, ditch the spent experiments, then meet up with a CM and move all the science/pilots to that pod for the return.

So if you are 'gaming' and want max science as fast as possible, the lab will not help you. Use the older techniques developed for .22 and earlier, with multiples of the now non-resettable experiments.

If however you like to do things in this game just because they can be done, then enjoy the lab, getting used to it now and coming up with some mission profiles/designs/ideas may well stand you in good stead for later updates.

Smidge is quite right. As more biomes reach more of the bodies we have, its value is going to increase dramatically

[MBobrik]

Say you are doing hopping over 4 biomes. that is 4 x ( TR-2V + SC-9001 + Goo ) = 1.43 ton. and with each hop it becomes less by 0.365 ton.

.

Now the same with 1 x SC-9001 + 1 x Goo + MPL-LG-2 = 3.85 ton

.

But if you want to grind it for its worth and say take 4x samples from each biome, it is 16 x ( TR-2V + SC-9001 + Goo ) = 5.72 ton while the MPL weight stays the same.

.

I am going to use it now for my Duna-Ike mission where I've got 9 sample points ( 1x Kerbol orbit, 5x Duna 3x Ike, each 2+ samples ) and that would be w/o MPL 6.3+ ton.

Edited December 26, 2013 by MBobrik

[Mobjack]

The MPL is for missions where you don't make a return trip. The point is that you can't take it home for processing, so you have to process it on site.

The best example would be having a science mission to Eve. It is very hard to make a return trip but sacrificing a few Kerbals in the name of science on a one way trip is easy.

[Roastduck]

The MPL is for missions where you don't make a return trip. The point is that you can't take it home for processing, so you have to process it on site.

The best example would be having a science mission to Eve. It is very hard to make a return trip but sacrificing a few Kerbals in the name of science on a one way trip is easy.

just put a docking port on the bottom and they'll at least have the hope of a rescue

[gilflo]

Hi, there

After reading the posts, it seems that the best use of the lab is to use it in Orbit around a planet to store and then reset experiment of various probes fitted with all the sciences gadget we have, Mysterious Goo,Science Jr, Temperature, Gravity, Seismic, pressure, atmosphere cones, and Kerbal for Eva and sample.

So can you confirm that: I send just the Lab (no science stuff on it) with 2 Kerbals and 1 small tank and engine for de-orbiting + parachutes for landing , and a big tank docked to that in order to refuel my sciences shuttles that will makes the experiments, then these shuttles land on a planet or orbit around, make experiments, come back to the Main Lab, and once docked to the station they will be able to transmit their experiences and samples to the lab, then have their experiments reset to zero, then be able to leave for new orbit or landing for new experiences after refueling, and come back and the story continue until the big tank is empty.....Then I undock the Lab, de orbit it and fly back to Kerbin to land with my dozen parachutes and all my sciences experiments, and samples ?

[StuLong]

Hi, there

After reading the posts, it seems that the best use of the lab is to use it in Orbit around a planet to store and then reset experiment of various probes fitted with all the sciences gadget we have, Mysterious Goo,Science Jr, Temperature, Gravity, Seismic, pressure, atmosphere cones, and Kerbal for Eva and sample.

So can you confirm that: I send just the Lab (no science stuff on it) with 2 Kerbals and 1 small tank and engine for de-orbiting + parachutes for landing , and a big tank docked to that in order to refuel my sciences shuttles that will makes the experiments, then these shuttles land on a planet or orbit around, make experiments, come back to the Main Lab, and once docked to the station they will be able to transmit their experiences and samples to the lab, then have their experiments reset to zero, then be able to leave for new orbit or landing for new experiences after refueling, and come back and the story continue until the big tank is empty.....Then I undock the Lab, de orbit it and fly back to Kerbin to land with my dozen parachutes and all my sciences experiments, and samples ?

My take on this is that the science lab need not be returned to Kerbin, since the experiments can be stored in the command pod.

I am in the process of planning a trip to Minmus, similar to your outline. A science lab with a big gas tank, and a lander that can dock and refuel for multiple biome drops on Minmus (hopefully all 10). The lander carries a Science Jr materials bay, a goo canister, and a thermometer. The experments will be performed upon landing, and the Kerbalnaut will collect the results from them while he's doing the EVA and surface samples. All the results will be stored in the command pod.

Upon re-docking with the lab/tanker, the lab will be used to clean the experiments, resetting them for the next drop. I have no plans to use the lab's transmission boost; I'm going to physically return all results via the command pod.

Once all biomes have been visited (fuel permitting), the whole kit'n'kaboodle will return to Kerbin orbit. The Science lab and attached fuel tanks will be left in orbit to form the nucleus of my first space station, and the erstwhile lander will deorbit with all the science goodies.

[gilflo]

You mean you don't need to return the lab to Kerbin? How do you transfer all experiments from Lab to command pod?

[Smidge204]

You mean you don't need to return the lab to Kerbin? How do you transfer all experiments from Lab to command pod?

With a Kerbal on EVA near the hatch, you can "Take Data" and all the experiments are now being carried by that Kerbal.

You can give that data to another Kerbal or deposit it in another lab/command pod. Getting into a pod automatically stores it into that pod. (Note that duplicate data will be discarded when this happens.)

You can abandon the lab and send a capsule with the data home, even if the capsule is empty and the craft is controlled by a probe core.

=Smidge=

[gilflo]

OK thank's for the tips !!

[RedDwarfIV]

I have actually found the science lab to be incredibly useful, even in landers. So far as I can tell, it can store an unlimited number of surface samples [i haven't hit any boundaries or found that information through Google searches anyway,] added to the fact that it can clean used testing equipment. Of course all this requires an oversized lander, but if you can get it to Minmus, you'll be getting loads of science in no time. Especially if you have an intermunar/interplanetary stage to ferry the lander around like I do.

[Dispatcher]

Besides your cockpit crew, you can have your two "lab personnel" EVA and take soil samples (and plant flags too for that matter). They can help the science points that way.

[AlexMBrennan]

The mobile seems mostly useless for two reasons:

1) it is a manned module, so I feel that you have to include capabilities to return the crew to Kerbin... in which case you could have just stored the experiments in the command pod with zero transmission loss.

A simple fix would be limiting science carried in command pods or adding a decay to science (the longer you wait before retrieving or transmitting data, the less valuable it becomes).

2) it is extremely heavy compared to the science experiment, so you could instead have used the rocket to launch a dozen science modules and a dozen goo containers instead

The only use I think of is as a service module for a small lander (where multiple science experiments would be too heavy) making multiple trips to the surface on distant planets, or if they added heavier experiments.

[Supernovy]

I figured out that if you max out transmission data, then return, you can get more points out of a single returned experiment. So what I did was take the lab, put rover wheels on it and send it to Minmus. In each biome I would take a few surface samples and use the lab to take a few materials bay and goo readings, transmit them all to get to the raised cap, then store one more experiment of each type.

After doing this is five or six biomes, I returned all the data to the crew module and took it back home. Can't remember exactly how much science I received but it was around two or three thousand. The lab rover is still there in case I need to gain even more science.

[pRoSpA]

I just spent a week building a space station to find this out... Considering how much actual science you need to progress past the point i'm at, 12% more than transmit value would be crazy. Almost as crazy as transmitting.

Edited January 25, 2014 by pRoSpA
typo

[Spaceisbeautifulul]

The way I use it is I have a space station somewhere, then if I send a ship there, I can dock it to the station, carry over the science, transmit it for full value, then fuel up the ship and repeat!

[kurja]

I figured out that if you max out transmission data, then return, you can get more points out of a single returned experiment. So what I did was take the lab, put rover wheels on it and send it to Minmus. In each biome I would take a few surface samples and use the lab to take a few materials bay and goo readings, transmit them all to get to the raised cap, then store one more experiment of each type.

After doing this is five or six biomes, I returned all the data to the crew module and took it back home. Can't remember exactly how much science I received but it was around two or three thousand. The lab rover is still there in case I need to gain even more science.

I'm following a similar logic as I have a lab station orbiting Jool, so idea is to visit the moons with a small lander and and have the lab clean goo canisters/materials bays for re-use. But, can anyone confirm, if there's any benefit at all in doing multiple experiments in one biome if I'd be eventually returning the crew? So say if I have two goo experiments from Vall surface, do I get all science if I just return one, or can I get more if I process and transmit one and return the other, or even more if I return both?

btw am I correct that there are no multiple biomes per body surface outside of kerbin/mun/minmus?

[Supernovy]

You get something like 80 percent if you return one, and due to the diminishing returns it takes about 4 experiments returned to max out the science. The way I did it was to take a measurement, process, clean out experiment, and repeat until I could transmit any more. I think 2 returns would be worth more than 1 return and 1 transmit, even with the processing boost.

Only Kerbin, Mun and Minmus have biomes in 0.23. Although, water and land surface readings count as two different situations - relevant for Laythe.

[Kryxal]

2 returns might be worth more, but storing them both might be a bit tricky if you don't design for it...

[KerikBalm]

Also relevant for eve I heard.

The way I see it... it lets you use 1 science junior and one goo can over and over again - but at 3.5 tons, you could take a lot of science juniors and goo cans... so... I'm not sure it's worth all that much.

It is nice to transmit for higher values, and then run the experiment again.

I made a science lab rover on the mun, landed it on a crater near a canyon, grabbed science for the crater, canyons, the surrounding highlands(or was it midlands?), then one of those small highland/midland craters, and returned to the lander and blasted off.

In theory, one of those rovers could max out the science on the whole Mun/minmus... but ain't nobody got time fo' dat.

[Kasuha]

2 returns might be worth more, but storing them both might be a bit tricky if you don't design for it...

All you need is two command pods.