Runaway rover/Science Lab

[Kerbastew]

So, I buildt a Rover out of a Science lab. I thought it would be a good idea to roam around the biomes of mun and get some serious science made.

I simply flipped a Science lab, attached wheels and some equipment.

Bad Idea!

It tipped going up a hill, but the thing is sturdy, rolled over once and stayed on the wheels.

BUT: Now Bill is not in his seat anymore (he is clinging on for dear life next to it) and Bob and a 3rd Kerbal is stuck in the science lab.

I can't exit the lab until I get control of the craft, I can't board until the craft stands still and right now it is rolling back and forth in this big crater like a skater gone wild.

What to do?

Wait a few years until the weak gravity finally stops the infernal thing?

[Mystique]

Try to stop him with Bill by simply ramming that thing (it may really work, but don' try to stop trucks in real life like this). Attach a screenshot of your rover, maybe there is a way to make it more stable (at least remap controls for rover to use different keys than those mapped for pitch/yaw, it really helps a lot to keep it on the ground; you will also be able to use SAS with WASD keys in case it takes off the ground to land on wheels and not roll over).

P.S. Rovers currectly are not worth their time, imho. More efficient way is to make kind of multilander or "munhopper" capable of relocating at speed of 100-150 m/s. Otherwise it's just a waste of time.

[Kerbastew]

Yup, I thought rovers would be cooler than they were. Hardly worth the time actually...

The intent of the whole rover-debacle was:

1: Be better with angling stuff in VAB, i.e., be a better builder

2: Learn to build a heavy lifter

3: Do fun stuff with more parts, lights, beams etc. that I never had to use before

4: Learn how to build and steer an off-center-weight rocket

The mission was to land a craft at the very edge of Far east crater and the canyon, drop the rover, move 2 kerbs in the lab and get Bill on top. Then exhaust the science in the crater, then simply drive into mordor, sorry, canyon and repeat all experiments in the new Biome.

I failed so bad since the high center of gravity of the rover made all movement restricted to flat flat flat ground. And I needed to go uphill a LOT

Also, first time I used the Lab. I realize that in that time it took me to land a lab, I could have landed 5-6 small landers and gotten the science back. All the time and work did not pay off since I could only get 25 % more science by using the lab. Am I using that thing wrong as well?

Here it is, on the launchpad.

http://postimg.org/image/9s26b1y3r/

Here it is, after the roll, only thing that broke was the solar panels. You can see Bill, stuck in his seat, but not in control.

[BlackBicycle]

Did this, landed roughly in the middle of a large crater. Had a 2 hour long rather thrilling drive out of the crater.

Got out, took the same set of measurements from outside the crater, then returned to the lander, transferred all the stuff to the capsule, took off and headed back. Netted close to a thousand points on that one. Two locations, crater and out of it. Materials, Goo and the rest. Didn't have Gravioli or Seismic then, shame : )

Recommendations: Unless you are absolutely sure the road ahead will not contain sharp changes in the incline (as in heading sharply upward or a sudden drop, and especially those at an angle to your course), for Mun, keep the speed at 5-10 m/s, depending on how adventurous you feel (and depending on how good your torque wheels are - I hardly had any, so I had to be very careful). If you incorporate a decent size (think medium - before Rockomax) torque wheel into the rover, it will probably be good up to 20 m/s on Mun... but don't take my word for it : ) Quicksave often! Yes, you have to stop for that.

Final verdict: On Mun, this is not worth it - while the ride itself is absolutely thrilling, especially the work to get out of a steep crater, the sheer time it takes to get out of a friggin bowl, leave alone the time to drive to the other one... we are talking hours of real time. I believe rovers are for the future, for when we have all kinds of biomes on Eeloo (set a probe into its orbit just yesterday, first time for me, yay! : )... Think life support, psychological compatibility (with Courage and Stupidity I cannot wait for a model of psychological incompatibility hehe : ) And then all of a sudden spending a whole decade (poor crew) on examining a far-away planet using a lab rover becomes a feasible idea.

Ok, this thing does have a tendency to roll forward on hard breaking... so don't break hard.... But it does look friggin awesome... doesn't it :?

[LethalDose]

http://s10.postimg.org/8u7rr8odl/screenshot6.png

But it does look friggin awesome... doesn't it :?

F&*^ing. Love. This.

[Libra00]

A couple words of advice on rovers, especially on low-gravity bodies.

1) The longer and wider your wheelbase the better. The lower the body's gravity, the more unstable your rover will be, so putting the wheels further out from the center of mass it will have less of an inclination to roll in any particular direction.

2) The heavier your rover the more traction you will have and unless you have some kind of RCS/rocket assist you will need the traction to get up those hills and turn without just ice-skating, especially on the likes of Minmus. Likewise, you can add artificial weight to your rover by, say, putting an ion thruster on your center of mass firing upward depending upon your energy budget.

3) Switch to docking mode so you don't induce roll while just trying to steer. Just have your mouse near the button in case you flip so you can reorient yourself wheels-down before you land.

4) Disable braking on the front wheels, so braking isn't as likely to cause you to flip.

5) Disable steering on the rear wheels. 4+-wheel steering seems neat, but it actually leads to more instability in low gravity as your center of mass sways out of line with its rest position in the middle of all your wheels.

That about covers it for stock rovers. Modded rovers can go in quite a diverse array of directions for increased control and traction. I think my favorite system I've devised is to use Kerbal Attachment System winches with a grappling hook (front) and anchor (back) set to different action groups. Not enough traction to climb that crater rim? Fire the forward grapple and reel yourself in. It's a bit slow going, but it's pretty cheap energy-wise. Likewise if you're trying to drive down a steep hill and can't control your descent, drop the anchor (or more than one on bigger rovers) to slow yourself down and keep you pointed down-slope instead of rolling.

As for trying to use a science lab on a rover, that's for people far more patient than me. I just built a heavy lander with a bunch of experiments and lab and hopped from biome to biome, came back from the Mun in less than a day with almost 2k science without all the wait and drive and struggle. I think next time (because that lab is so damned heavy) I'm going to orbit the lab and drop micro-landers.

[Kerbastew]

Thanks Libra00 and the rest of you for all tips and tricks.

I have no problem creating a rover with a broad wheelbase, the problem is getting it to the celestial body and to drop it from the lander.

What I really miss in KSP (since I only do stock parts) is hydraulics, i.e., parts that can fold out, other than landing gear.

If it was possible to put hinges and controlled hydraulics, you could fold your rover like an umbrella and after deployment have a large base and low Center of mass...

For now Rovers kind of suck, but they look so cool

[Libra00]

Infernal Robotics can do a lot of the folding/hydraulics you mention, but that doesn't really help if you want to play mod-free. As for getting large/stable rovers to the target, it's generally a case of brute force. One thing to remember though is that with enough struts your rocket doesn't have to look anything like an actual rocket. I've seen (and launched) some truly massive rovers atop some seriously beefy rockets. In fact if you're looking for inspiration, search up the 'post your rover' thread, a lot of people especially with bigger rovers tend to post pictures on the launchpad/runway. The most common way to launch a big rover seems to be to put it flat across the top of the rocket so it's symmetrical-ish, rather than having the wheels stick out to one particular side. This is how I've done my very massive kethane mining rovers in the past before I realized that it makes way more sense to be able to fly between kethane patches than to drive.

[michaelhester07]

You can put out-riggers on it: Long struts on the sides with one wheel at the end of them. I did this with a rover and I could corner on minimus at 15m/s.

[technion]

Yup, I thought rovers would be cooler than they were. Hardly worth the time actually...

The issue is where you've put it (the mun). I pretty much gave up on rovers on low gravity bodies, for the reasons you mention. You'll enjoy driving 60km on Eve though

[Keramane]

Final verdict: On Mun, this is not worth it - while the ride itself is absolutely thrilling, especially the work to get out of a steep crater, the sheer time it takes to get out of a friggin bowl, leave alone the time to drive to the other one... we are talking hours of real time

Wait till you try Minmus. Thats where my first little rover went. I hit a slope; I went out for dinner while it slid down the hill brakes locked since I couldn't return to KSC without it stopping first.

I've been questioning whether Rovers are really worth using when trying to nab all those biomes... the ONLY upside I see in it is that you don't need to spam lab-toting landers to Minmus and the Mun, but considering the speed of travel involved, it's actually way faster to launch 50 ships than drive one Rover.

I will confess, rovers are fun though.

[BlackBicycle]

Wait till you try Minmus.... rovers are fun though.

Hehe, I am NOT trying rovers on Minmus : ) I've had enough fun on Mun.

Like I said in some other thread (I think,) there will be a reason for rovers when we get biomes on higher-G bodies. Then, especially if they have atmosphere, it will become too costly to have rocket-powered craft to hop around biomes, or for orbital base to send probes there and back. Then we will have to figure out the aircraft, rovers, all kinds of stuff : )

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Happy New Year : )

[NoPanShabuShabu]

The issue is where you've put it (the mun). I pretty much gave up on rovers on low gravity bodies, for the reasons you mention. You'll enjoy driving 60km on Eve though

Yeah, Eve is much better for rovers unless you roll them (you better have put some kind of righting device on since unlike Mun or Duna, SAS won't roll you over.) I had to drive 4 Kerbals over 160km on Eve to get them to the rescue lander, thank god it wasn't on the Mun.

[NoPanShabuShabu]

But back to the question of can you save this thing and get Bill back in his seat or something. Try right clicking on him and having him leave the seat, or right click on the seat and board again. You might need to [ or ] to get him in focus and see if he's responsive at all. I've had Kerbals all jumbled in the seat and gotten them composed again. I've also gotten them to plummet to their deaths this way (not quite as good an outcome.)

[BlackBicycle]

I wonder if the OP is still monitoring the thread. But thanks for bringing this back to topic, Shabu. Have you noticed how we all just veered off the whole thing and into the fun realm? Fascinating, isn't it?