[1.8+] Real Fuels

[TeeGee]

Yeah and ever since I updated RF the kraken has visited me many times:

[Padishar]

Ahhh, ok. When I rewrote the KER simulation code I attempted to duplicate the fuel flow rules worked out by Kasuha but it appears there is a flaw in them (relevant KER code). Specifically, rule 3 says that a part with crossfeed disabled will return an empty list of parts (but will provide fuel via fuel lines coming into it by rule 2). If your nosecones do actually provide fuel when set to crossfeed=false then this rule must be wrong in some way (not surprising this has been missed if no stock parts are set up like this). It sounds like some more experiments will need to be done with modified parts that contain fuel but have crossfeed disabled...

However, I guess that having a fuel tank with crossfeed disabled doesn't really make a lot of sense so it probably does make sense for your parts to be changed...

Kasuha has now updated his rules to correctly account for fuel tanks with crossfeed disabled and I have implemented the required changes in KER. My development version including this fix is in the thread linked in my sig.

[swamp_ig]

Wondering if anyone else is having issues with the RF 6.x release. 5.3 worked fine for me, but with 6.0 and 6.1, every modular tank shows me "This tank cannot hold resources". The log shows this "Unable to find tank definition for type "ServiceModule" reverting.", however the tank definitions do load earlier in the log -- it only shows unable to find when actually compiling the parts.

I wasn't aware of this issue. There's definitely a service module tank type definition present? Like this is a totally fresh install?

Module manager is running?

[amo28]

I wasn't aware of this issue. There's definitely a service module tank type definition present? Like this is a totally fresh install?

Module manager is running?

Yes. Running MM 2.1.5. Fresh install of Real Fuels. The tank types do load in the log, yes -- and I can't find any errors or exceptions to indicate a problem. It's just when the part compiles that it can't find the tank type.

Like I said, drop the RF 5.3 .dll in place of the 6.0 dll and all works perfectly fine.

[Starwaster]

Yes. Running MM 2.1.5. Fresh install of Real Fuels. The tank types do load in the log, yes -- and I can't find any errors or exceptions to indicate a problem. It's just when the part compiles that it can't find the tank type.

Like I said, drop the RF 5.3 .dll in place of the 6.0 dll and all works perfectly fine.

what log are you checking?

dont use ksp.log

use player.log (for linux)

Just noticed a page back; RedAV8R says this is known about and being worked on...

Edited June 9, 2014 by Starwaster

[NathanKell]

This is strange, since before I left, to test v6 I had been loading and creating craft with service modules (pretty much exclusively) and never hit an issue. Logs would be great.

[swamp_ig]

Just noticed a page back; RedAV8R says this is known about and being worked on...

I don't know about it, and I don't think NathanKell does either, so no I don't think that's true.

[RedAV8R]

what log are you checking?

dont use ksp.log

use player.log (for linux)

Just noticed a page back; RedAV8R says this is known about and being worked on...

This is strange, since before I left, to test v6 I had been loading and creating craft with service modules (pretty much exclusively) and never hit an issue. Logs would be great.

I don't know about it, and I don't think NathanKell does either, so no I don't think that's true.

Nathan, the issue I was referring to before, is with referencing the preset TANK_DEFINITIONS in the file in RealFuels. When creating a craft from scratch, using say a Procedural Part Fuel Tank of servicemodule type things work just fine. However, for example, when using a craft from parts from say one of my realism packs, which set default tank amounts, like the Apollo command module. The type is ServiceModule, IF a default tank amount is present, it overrides EVERYTHING from the TANK_DEFINITION, including utilization, pressurization, boil off, the whole enchilada. Well, if I don't declare what utilization is then it defaults to 1, not what is in the TANK_DEFINITION section, which is 100. Same goes for pressurization, I didn't declare it to be pressurized, so instead of taking it from the TANK_DEFINITION, and pressurizing the tank, it doesn't. Leads to some pretty funky behavior, and one must remove all tanks and start over, and even then those values like utilization are still going to be 1 instead of the 100 that it should be. I personally never got far enough ahead to actually fly one and see what logs say, perhaps that is what I need to do today.

[amo28]

Here's the logs, fellas. Link.

Never knew about the player.log, Starwaster. Thanks for that.

The best thing I could pull out of it was this ArgumentException:

(Filename: /BuildAgent/work/d3d49558e4d408f4/artifacts/LinuxStandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 53)

ArgumentException: An element with the same key already exists in the dictionary.
  at System.Collections.ObjectModel.KeyedCollection`2[TKey,TItem].InsertItem (Int32 index, .TItem item) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Collections.ObjectModel.Collection`1[T].Add (.T item) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RealFuels.MFSSettings.Awake () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
UnityEngine.GameObject:Internal_AddComponentWithType(Type)
UnityEngine.GameObject:AddComponent(Type)
UnityEngine.GameObject:AddComponent()
RealFuels.MFSSettings:get_Instance()
RealFuels.ModuleFuelTanks:get_Settings()
RealFuels.ModuleFuelTanks:OnAwake()
PartModule:Awake()
UnityEngine.GameObject:SetActive(Boolean)
EditorLogic:SpawnPart(AvailablePart)
EditorPartList:CreateEditorPart(AvailablePart)
EditorPartList:TapIcon(AvailablePart)
EditorPartIcon:OnTap()
EditorPartIcon:MouseInput(POINTER_INFO&)
UIButton:OnInput(POINTER_INFO&)
AutoSpriteControlBase:OnInput(POINTER_INFO)
UIManager:DispatchHelper(POINTER_INFO&, Int32)
UIManager:DispatchInput()
UIManager:Update()

(Filename:  Line: 4294967295)

Unable to find tank definition for type "RCSHighEfficiency" reverting.

(Filename: /BuildAgent/work/d3d49558e4d408f4/artifacts/LinuxStandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 53)

Part: FL-R10 RCS Fuel Tank Transforms: 3

RF 6.1. Cleared the logs before I ran. New craft. Just threw a couple stock tanks and a conic stretchy tank on there. The only thing that happens within KSP is the message "This tank cannot hold resources" when I try to configure it.

Switching back to RF 5.3 produces none of these ArgumentException errors, and all functions work perfectly.

Edited June 9, 2014 by amo28

[Subcidal]

Might be a common question, But I tried searching and theres hardly any results. Is there any configs that allow Realfuels and Kethane to be used togother?

[Starwaster]

Might be a common question, But I tried searching and theres hardly any results. Is there any configs that allow Realfuels and Kethane to be used togother?

Should already be, out of the box. The only thing you can't do is fill tanks with Kethane in the VAB/SPH.

That said, I've been out of touch with RF for awhile being very preoccupied with other matters including not having a decent machine to run KSP on. I only just today reinstalled it on my notebook. So maybe something changed that I'm not aware of.

[NathanKell]

amo28: grep for TANK_DEFINITION | grep ServiceModule

My guess is you have two definitions of ServiceModule.

[Dinokin]

all life support mods are draining liquid oxygen instead the normal oxygen

i tested with ECLSS and TAC LS this issue is even more problematic on ECLSS because it drain my fuel really fast... though with TAC LS i can live with this...

can someone please help me ?

Edited June 10, 2014 by Dinokin

[Starwaster]

all life support mods are draining liquid oxygen instead the normal oxygen

i tested with ECLSS and TAC LS this issue is even more problematic on ECLSS because it drain my fuel really fast... though with TAC LS i can live with this...

can someone please help me ?

Are you sure it's not just boiloff? Liquid oxygen must be kept below 183 C or it will boil away.

It's been awhile since I used TAC and I didnt get very comfy with ECLSS, but last I checked they didn't actually look for LiquidOxygen, they had their own oxygen resource that represented gaseous oxygen didn't they?

Unless they're specifically targeting LiquidOxygen for conversion and maybe not accounting properly for density ratios.... well it seems unlikely....

And you didn't mention it specifically by name, but Ioncross definitely would not do that.

[amo28]

amo28: grep for TANK_DEFINITION | grep ServiceModule

My guess is you have two definitions of ServiceModule.

Thanks Nathan.

These are the only files that touch TANK_DEFINITION. I went through all of them and none add a conflicting ServiceModule or any other vanilla tanks from RF.

grep -r TANK_DEFINITION
GameData/CargoTransferBags/ModularCargo.cfg:TANK_DEFINITION
GameData/CargoTransferBags/ModularCargo.cfg:TANK_DEFINITION
GameData/FusTek/Station Parts/Parts/MM_configs/FusTek_MMPatch_TACLifeSupport_ModularFuelTanks.cfg:TANK_DEFINITION
GameData/RealFuels/ECLSS_RF.cfg:TANK_DEFINITION
GameData/RealFuels/ECLSS_RF.cfg:TANK_DEFINITION
GameData/RealFuels/ECLSS_RF.cfg:TANK_DEFINITION
GameData/RealFuels/ECLSS_RF.cfg:@TANK_DEFINITION[Default]
GameData/RealFuels/ECLSS_RF.cfg:@TANK_DEFINITION[ServiceModule]
GameData/RealFuels/Resources/RealTankTypes.cfg:TANK_DEFINITION
GameData/RealFuels/Resources/RealTankTypes.cfg:TANK_DEFINITION
GameData/RealFuels/Resources/RealTankTypes.cfg:TANK_DEFINITION
GameData/RealFuels/Resources/RealTankTypes.cfg:TANK_DEFINITION
GameData/RealFuels/Resources/RealTankTypes.cfg:TANK_DEFINITION
GameData/RealFuels/Resources/RealTankTypes.cfg:TANK_DEFINITION
GameData/RealFuels/Resources/RealTankTypes.cfg:TANK_DEFINITION
GameData/RealFuels/Resources/RealTankTypes.cfg:TANK_DEFINITION
GameData/RealFuels/Resources/RealTankTypes.cfg:TANK_DEFINITION
GameData/RealFuels/Resources/RealTankTypes.cfg:TANK_DEFINITION
GameData/RealFuels/Resources/RealTankTypes.cfg:TANK_DEFINITION
GameData/RealFuels/Resources/RealTankTypes.cfg:TANK_DEFINITION
GameData/RealFuels/Resources/TankTypes.cfg:TANK_DEFINITION

If there was a duplicate file there or a duplicate tanktype being made, I would image RF 5.3 would run into the same issue, but it doesn't produce any Exceptions at all.

[Sparker]

Hello, Nathan!

I like the work you do very much! So many new cool things in the latest time: Earth model, different launch sites, new procedural parts. Amazing!

However, let me share my opinion about some changes in the real fuels mod.

1. It looks logical to forbid adding monopropellant fuel tanks to fuel tanks which can't match some realistic structural requirements. But it makes you add separate fuel tanks for fuel and for monopropellant. It goes against the idea to reduce parts count. The problem is more critical if I you use non-modular fuselages like B9.

2.Is it impossible to add empty fuel tanks now? It was very usefull.

[djnattyd]

I don't know if I'm missing something but I can't seem to be able to add fuel to wings, stock or B9. Is this even possible and if not, how would I work out the ratios to add them. myself?

[swamp_ig]

Thanks Nathan.

These are the only files that touch TANK_DEFINITION. I went through all of them and none add a conflicting ServiceModule or any other vanilla tanks from RF.

If there was a duplicate file there or a duplicate tanktype being made, I would image RF 5.3 would run into the same issue, but it doesn't produce any Exceptions at all.

Can you please try:

grep ServiceModule $(grep -rl TANK_DEFINITION .)

If you see more than one name = ServiceModule you've got issues.

Incidentally - I've patched the code so it handles this issue more gracefully (ignores the second and subsequent and warns)

[Dinokin]

Are you sure it's not just boiloff? Liquid oxygen must be kept below 183 C or it will boil away.

It's been awhile since I used TAC and I didnt get very comfy with ECLSS, but last I checked they didn't actually look for LiquidOxygen, they had their own oxygen resource that represented gaseous oxygen didn't they?

Unless they're specifically targeting LiquidOxygen for conversion and maybe not accounting properly for density ratios.... well it seems unlikely....

And you didn't mention it specifically by name, but Ioncross definitely would not do that.

i did some more testing and you are right but now i have another question.... how i keep liquidoxygen below 183c ?

[Ralathon]

i did some more testing and you are right but now i have another question.... how i keep liquidoxygen below 183c ?

The white sheet radiators located in the science tab. Make sure you put enough on your craft and make sure that you generate enough EC. For optimal use you should use cryogenic tanks (They're better insulated). The big orange tank from stock is cryogenic among others.

You can also just ignore the whole evaporation issue and make sure that you do all your burns in the first few days of your mission. LOX and LH2 boiloff is pretty slow, so if you go on a trip to the moon you shouldn't worry about too much boiloff. If you plan to go interplanetary and you want to do big burns at your destination it might be better to stick to hypergolic fuels like MMH-N2O4.

[guto8797]

Hello! I want to report an incompatibility and ask a few questions.

A warning: both this mod and modular fuel tanks are incompatible with Engine Ignitor, at the current release.

Now for the questions:

-How's this mod overall compatibility?

-Do you require configs for EVERY engine?

-How does this fare with fuel producing mods like KSPI or Kethane? Do they manage to convert their fuels into usable fuels by the mod or no cake?

Thanks in advance!

[RedAV8R]

Yes, NK and team knows of the Engine Ignitor issue, so does HoneyFox, they are both looking at their respective programs.

This mod is essentially a stand-alone, there are obviously programs that can interact with it, as we have seen with Engine Ignitor, but otherwise, unless specific modules are included in parts, it doesn't do anything.

If you want RealFuel capability, including the engine overhaul, yes the part must have it configured to use, every one of them, usually that is done with ModuleManager configurations that edit parts, but a mod developer could include it from the start.

This mod does many things, big ones include revamping actual fuel tanks, how many, how much, what's in it, etc. Two, it overhauls engines to perform more realistically than stock KSP. That said, RealFuels includes a ModuleManager file to enable conversion from Kethane to other fuels. The Kethane mod includes a file to enable Kethane within type "Default" tanks. RealFuels also includes a MM file to give basic capability within KSPI parts.

[Subcidal]

Anybody know of a common problem that makes all tanks stop working with realfuels? I was just using it yesterday and now for some reason every single tank in the game wont allow me to add any type of fuel to them. They all say that you cant add resources to them. Ohhhh troubleshooting.

the debug console says that it's unable to find tank definition for "tanktypehere' and reverts to default. I haven't messed with the RF .cfgs or even really touched it at all till now.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Subcidal

[RedAV8R]

Anybody know of a common problem that makes all tanks stop working with realfuels? I was just using it yesterday and now for some reason every single tank in the game wont allow me to add any type of fuel to them. They all say that you cant add resources to them. Ohhhh troubleshooting.

the debug console says that it's unable to find tank definition for "tanktypehere' and reverts to default. I haven't messed with the RF .cfgs or even really touched it at all till now.

I'd seriously wait for the next version to come out, but that's me...you say all tanks??? what exactly tanks, stock, some mod, what?

[amo28]

Can you please try:

grep ServiceModule $(grep -rl TANK_DEFINITION .)

If you see more than one name = ServiceModule you've got issues.

Checked that and confirmed -- the only thing that specifies "name = ServiceModule" is the RealTankTypes.cfg.

I don't really think I have a config problem here, to be perfectly honest. Otherwise, RF 5.3 wouldn't work. I'll try the new version when you post it though.

Anybody know of a common problem that makes all tanks stop working with realfuels? I was just using it yesterday and now for some reason every single tank in the game wont allow me to add any type of fuel to them. They all say that you cant add resources to them. Ohhhh troubleshooting.

the debug console says that it's unable to find tank definition for "tanktypehere' and reverts to default. I haven't messed with the RF .cfgs or even really touched it at all till now.

Looks like you and I have the same problem, Subcidal. Are you a Linux user, by chance?